Honest board question...Trade up to #2?

[DallasEast]

That's not what is being said. A top WR can still be obtained without sacrificing two drafts to get him.

As I said earlier, there are three other very good, first-round prospects (Meacham, Bowe & Ginn) along with Johnson. There are times when you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[ZeroClub]

Al Toon was a high quality WR.
Andre Reed was a high quality WR.

Both were drafted in 1985.

Jerry Rice was also drafted in 1985.

How much more would Jerry Rice be worth to you?

 

[CCBoy]

and if the actual differences between really great players and top-notched is actually in the longer term accumulation of fine points, then price would be a closer approximation as to actual value of a specific player...where productions are not that far apart...and carrying this a step further...I would place resources more closely atuned, to dominating the majority of the field, and elevate the pass rush, interior linebacker speed, and intensifying the strength of the offensive line...that way, the already bought and paid for pieces, that function already at a full NFL level of efficiency, have the greatest potential to carry, over the length of an entire season...the Cowboys to the Super Bowl...this team isn't that far away from total success, and even the loss of increased speed at interior linebacker and outside pressure from a very high visibility player, would, in sequence of reason, actually be MORE important than the addition of a categorical, first round receiver, although young....fair?:

 

[WoodysGirl]

and if the actual differences between really great players and top-notched is actually in the longer term accumulation of fine points, then price would be a closer approximation as to actual value of a specific player...where productions are not that far apart...and carrying this a step further...I would place resources more closely atuned, to dominating the majority of the field, and elevate the pass rush, interior linebacker speed, and intensifying the strength of the offensive line...that way, the already bought and paid for pieces, that function already at a full NFL level of efficiency, have the greatest potential to carry, over the length of an entire season...the Cowboys to the Super Bowl...this team isn't that far away from total success, and even the loss of increased speed at interior linebacker and outside pressure from a very high visibility player, would, in sequence of reason, actually be MORE important than the addition of a categorical, first round receiver, although young....fair?:

So now you don't want to trade up to #2?

 

[carphalen5150]

I'm leaning towards Ginn at 22 now anyways. I think he could be a Glenn type WR, but with more speed. Additionally, I think he would be an instant hit on returns.

 

[CCBoy]

....oh my, how last year!

If I were to trade up, and not just speculating as to posibilities involved with a top level, similar to what was done TWICE in Dallas history, and top level talents have remained about similar, through the years...the level that I would shoot for, in a more realistic price range for my player differences, would involve a move to the 10-15 pick level, and target a player from a subject group involving:

Levi Brown OT
Patrick Willis MLB
Leon Hall CB

In today's NFL, that is about as far up the ladder, that I would project, and thnk that there could be a realistic gain from the price paid, with a little creativity being applied....

That stated, there are enough real slides in projected personnel in recent drafts, to give reasonable expectations for a smaller level of jump to acquire a specific player that would significantly improve a desired unit on a team... say moving up three to four places to get a player that fell due to other team needs...and would fit a role on the current team...it depends on the severity of depth and base talent levels throughout a team. In today's NFL...there is very small gains acquired in lower level developments, that require huge personal sacrifices and most of all, the opportunity that accompanies free agency, injuries, or lower level team developments....Arguably, higher levels of disparity between top levels and bottom levels of beginning pedigrees, but in terms of actual functionality on a single year's basis, much more limiting in nature and application...

since I was asked my preference-I'll state it. A defineable increase in the actual function of this year's linebacker group, and then, a developing player that is talented enough, to touch the cornerback group's progress into next season....

 

[Wimbo]

I would love to see Calvin Johnson wearing the Star, but not at the price of those draft picks. Think back to the 1996 draft, when all the buzz was about Keyshawn Johnson, who was picked #1 overall... he has had a nice career, but picked later in that draft were: Terry Glenn(7th pick), Terrell Owens(89th), Marvin Harrison(19th), Muhsin Muhammad(43rd), Joe Horn(135th), and Eric Moulds(24th).

Drafting is always a crap shoot, but giving up two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders for one guy who looks awesome (but could be another Desmond Howard (4th pick), Charles Rogers (2nd), Koren Robinson (9th), Peter Warrick (4th), David Boston (8th), Michael Westbrook (4th) ) is too much of a gamble for my liking.

 

[Hostile]

The draft can't get here fast enough for me. I can't take all the bad deal threads.

 

[CCBoy]

and point made....:bang2: :starspin

 

[DallasEast]

Noted... and point made....:bang2: :starspin

Really???



* gathers the Mormon Tabernacle Choir behinds him *



"Hal-le-lu-jah!

Hal-le-lu-jah!

Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Hal-le-lu-jah!"

 

[sago1]

Absolutely not. Cowboys only traded up for Dorsett cause they believed they were only 1 RB away from going to the SB; they turned out to be right. We aren't 1 WR away from the SB; we are 1-3 players away from the SB and probably 2 of those positions are on defense. Last time I checked Johnson doesn't play FS or LB.

 

[DC Cowboy]

would you be willing to do a Tony Dorsett type of a trade, to move up to the #2 draft slot and acquire WR Calvin Johnson? Say, give up this year's first and second round as well as next year's first and second rounders....?

I would, I just love that kid for soem reason.:blind:

 

[DC Cowboy]

Did not get much sleep so forgive me if I miss the 'big eye' reference.

However this is not the days before there was a cap.

This is not the days before there was the CBA.

Also just because someone would offer a trade it does take two to tango.

I get so wore out with these crazy draft scenario trade the moon threads.

I honestly don't know sometimes if it is just a young kid suggesting them. A casual fan that really does not know anything about how the NFL really works or just someone that just likes to post things for reactions.

In an age where the FA prices are going up and up and teams are keeping many of the top FAs...it would be foolish to trade away two first round picks and two second round picks in consecutive years.

Ok I can see your point but dang I still like that kid!

 

[Clove]

I would love to see Calvin Johnson wearing the Star, but not at the price of those draft picks. Think back to the 1996 draft, when all the buzz was about Keyshawn Johnson, who was picked #1 overall...

Didn't Keyshawn win a superbowl, and came close a 2nd time? I think he lived up to his #1 status if winning the super bowl is the ultimate prize.

 

[cowboyz]

look at the drafts, if you can get someone of his caliber it's worth it. what has dallas done lately with it's drafts other than demarcus ware?

marcus spears, andre gurode, bobby carpenter, kevin burnett, jj, jacob rogers, etc.

would you trade all those guys for a demarcus ware caliber player? i would. calvin johnson is that type of player.

 

[AsthmaField]

since I was asked my preference-I'll state it. A defineable increase in the actual function of this year's linebacker group, and then, a developing player that is talented enough, to touch the cornerback group's progress into next season....

Uh..... I'm not sure I follow...

Okay... I think you're saying... wait, what?

Ummm. Nice weather we're having, huh?

 

[dargonking999]

Its just not worth it anymore. The days of having that cant miss star are gone. You can get one every single year, instead of once every 10 years in the past. Trading up inside the top 5 just isnt worth it anymore

 

[AsthmaField]

As far as moving up in the draft... well, I'm in the minority in that I would be willing to move up if there is a player worth doing it for. However, going up into the top 5 is just too expensive. It cost too many picks/players IMO to do it.

The example I used in a previous post is if someone like Adrian Peterson fell out of the top 10 and our scouting department did indeed feel like he is going to be a star player. In that case, I can see moving up from 22 to something like 12 to get him.

Lets say we trade our #22 pick in the first round, our second rounder, our fourth rounder and our fifth rounder this year along with a fourth rounder next year. In return we get the 12th pick overall in this draft and take Peterson.

Then, we trade Julius Jones to Green Bay for, say, their second round choice. That pick is 6 spots earlier than our initial second rounder was.

Now, we have upgraded our RB position significantly, upgraded our second round choice by moving it up six spots and have only given up Julius Jones, a 4th and a 5th this year and a 4th next year. That, IMO, is a very good deal for Dallas. It also is a good deal for Buffalo, who needs a lot of picks and for Green Bay, who gets a good RB for a second round pick.

It may seem a little far fetched but trades like this one happen. They have happened in the past and they'll happen in the future. IMO it isn't that far fetched. Reportedly, we were trying to trade Julius last year and draft Maroney... that isn't very far removed from this scenario.

The only real knock on Peterson is his ability to stay healthy and splitting time with Barber III would help insure he stays healthy. That would be a devistating combo and could possibly catapult Dallas deep into the post season.

I can't help but feel that if the chance is there to add a really outstanding player, that we need to do it... even if it costs us some later picks or players.

There are a few difference makers in this draft. Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Laron Landry, Joe Thomas, and Gaines Adams. You might could list Jamarcus Russell and some might would list Alan Branch because of the position he plays.

Now, like I said, I wouldn't go up into the top 5 to get any of them... maybe even top 10. However, if any one of them falls out of the top 10, then I'd have to start looking at trying to trade up to add a dominating player. And some do slip, every year. Running backs particularly tend to slip on draft day. Defensive lineman tend to go early and so do QB's. OT's too.

Russell, Johnson, Thomas... those three are going top 5 for sure, so we can forget about them, IMO. Adams likely will go quickly too because DE's go early. However, Peterson might slip because Cleveland got Lewis at RB and like I said, backs can slip some. Branch might slip because of the perception that he can be lazy. Landy could slip some because teams don't like to go safety early, but he is such a great talent that he likely won't slip much.

So that leaves Peterson, Landry and Branch as potential difference makers that might slip out of the top ten. Of those, Peterson and Landry are the only one's I'd move up to get. Branch worries me and while I might take him if he were at our pick... I wouldn't give up much of anything additional to move up for him.

If Peterson or Landry is there after the top ten, I'd definately start looking for ways to move up and get them. They are game changers and would be worth some picks later in the draft. The scenario above for Peterson is one way I'd do it... I'd do something close to that for Landry because I think he's that good. Beyond those two or one of the others amazingly falling (CJ, Thomas) I wouldn't move up very far.

Now if a player that our scouts think is really going to be good is there pretty close to our pick, then I might move up for him. For example, if they think Revis is something special at CB and a lot better than the other alternatives that will be there at our pick... then I might move up a few spots for him. To something like Cincy's pick at 18. That's very similar to what we did when Emmitt started falling in 1990. We went from 21 to 17 and nabbed a hall of famer. We didn't give up that much either.

It really depends on if we think a player is worth it. If we do... even if it is a significant jump (like to 12), then I'm all for it. I wouldn't move up just to move up... but if there is a guy we think is really special, then I'd rather go get him and have fewer picks. That's just the way I feel about it.

However, going up to #2 or #3 is just too expensive to be worth it. The risk is too high. While I think that Calvin Johnson will be a great one... if you miss on that, then it really hurts your team a lot because you had to give up so much to begin with. However, going up 10 spots to #12 is a risk worth taking IMO, for a guy like Peterson or Landry.

Both Peterson and Landry will likely be gone by then though, so it likely is a moot point anyway, and we will simply stay at 22 and take the BAP.

If something crazy happens and one of them does slip, much like Emmitt did in 1991... then we need to take the chance, I think.

 

[ndanger]

and if the actual differences between really great players and top-notched is actually in the longer term accumulation of fine points, then price would be a closer approximation as to actual value of a specific player...where productions are not that far apart...and carrying this a step further...I would place resources more closely atuned, to dominating the majority of the field, and elevate the pass rush, interior linebacker speed, and intensifying the strength of the offensive line...that way, the already bought and paid for pieces, that function already at a full NFL level of efficiency, have the greatest potential to carry, over the length of an entire season...the Cowboys to the Super Bowl...this team isn't that far away from total success, and even the loss of increased speed at interior linebacker and outside pressure from a very high visibility player, would, in sequence of reason, actually be MORE important than the addition of a categorical, first round receiver, although young....fair?:

Leave the crack alone, it is causing you problems.Seek immediate help.

 

[bbgun]

Cowboys trade up to #2; Miss Hawaiian Tropic contest to be held in bbgun's backyard.

Back to reality.