Hope is not a strategy

[Risen Star]

Better yet, instead of me having to prove my point (which I constantly have to do).

Please prove yours.

Roll up those sleeves over those massive forearms and do some research...

I don't have to do research, Mike. I knew your response before you said it. You said nothing at the time or in the following years. You were right with the others reciting the handbook. Oh, you know more than the team? They must see something. Wait and see. You couldn't possibly know now.

But now we can blame those years. It's far enough away and under a slightly different regime. It doesn't threaten the fantasy that the team currently is fine and now making smart decisions.

Here's a newsflash for you, Mikey. We don't draft any better now than we did then. I won't talk about 2013 and 2014 as that's far too soon to come to a conclusion but the impact the team has gotten from the 2010-2012 drafts is just as bad as that huge hole you're lamenting about previously.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't have to do research, Mike. I knew your response before you said it. You said nothing at the time or in the following years. You were right with the others reciting the handbook. Oh, you know more than the team? They must see something. Wait and see. You couldn't possibly know now.

But now we can blame those years. It's far enough away and under a slightly different regime. It doesn't threaten the fantasy that the team currently is fine and now making smart decisions.

Here's a newsflash for you, Mikey. We don't draft any better now than we did then. I won't talk about 2013 and 2014 as that's far too soon to come to a conclusion but the impact the team has gotten from the 2010-2012 drafts is just as bad as that huge hole you're lamenting about previously.

And I knew your response before you said it.

Hyperbole... blah... blah... Jerry sucks.

Got it.

 

[BAT]

Don't even go there BAT.

There is a HUGE difference in talent from those teams to this one.

I was a fan during the 70's... I know the difference.

I was a huge fan as well. Comparing talent is subjective because it is not just the talent on the team but in the whole league that is different from then and now. But the influence that a vet with championship pedigree can provide is invaluable for ANY team, not just teams that are in championship contention right now.

And I go where I want Mike.

 

[DandyDon1722]

That's what our resident experts have been telling us ad nauseum these last few years.

Yeah Bat I have to agree on this point -- this is all about next year. We are going to (hopefully) have a small window with Romo for two or three years starting next season and beyond with a dynamic offense and a good defense that we will build through the draft and that will be it--

Until we get our next QB.

 

[Bluestang]

Probably the 4th offseason this phrase has been around. Just when the team fixes one area, another has gone to crap it seems.

Bob Sturm wrote an article about it a few seasons ago.

He used a perfect analogy saying it was like plugging holes in dam and once a hole got plugged another would pop right up somewhere else.

 

[jobberone]

Yep, that's about the size of it. The draft hole from 2006 until 2009 gutted the depth of several units on the team.

I'd say it started before then. We've been chasing holes for quite awhile.

 

[jobberone]

Yeah. LOL!

And folks forget that acquiring talent in the NFL is close to being a zero-sum game. For Dallas to get superior talent it has to come from some other team, which of course is going to do its best not to only keep Dallas from getting that talent, but improve the talent then do have.

With rare exceptions there is no turning "straw into gold" when it comes to talent acquisition in the NFL.

Except in two instances

1. Draft and UDFA
2, rescue and/or obtain VFA/cuts

The latter is really difficult and the former just difficult.

 

[windward]

I don't have to do research, Mike. I knew your response before you said it. You said nothing at the time or in the following years. You were right with the others reciting the handbook. Oh, you know more than the team? They must see something. Wait and see. You couldn't possibly know now.

But now we can blame those years. It's far enough away and under a slightly different regime. It doesn't threaten the fantasy that the team currently is fine and now making smart decisions.

Here's a newsflash for you, Mikey. We don't draft any better now than we did then. I won't talk about 2013 and 2014 as that's far too soon to come to a conclusion but the impact the team has gotten from the 2010-2012 drafts is just as bad as that huge hole you're lamenting about previously.

Dez,Tyron and Demarco are all better than anything we drafted from 2006-2009. That's not even consisting the additions of Frederick or Martin.

It's a marked difference tbh.

 

[RS12]

Hope is not a strategy

What are are you talking about? Hasnt it worked brilliantly since the mid 90's?

 

[jobberone]

Do we really need to keep making multiple posts about the FO suckage? Anymore will be deleted or worse. Talk about the players please. That's plenty to discuss.

 

[Stash]

Dez,Tyron and Demarco are all better than anything we drafted from 2006-2009. That's not even consisting the additions of Frederick or Martin.

It's a marked difference tbh.

Conversely, look at the defensive players added (or not) during that same time period.

Partly explains why we have half of a team.

 

[xwalker]

I agree but never was fond of the term stopgaps or progress stoppers. If players can play, then play them. Of course, the financical side has to work but letting philosophy intefere with improvement, even if only short term, is more of a progress stopper than ANY vet player. Cowboys have been 8-8 the last 3 seasons but have been eliminated from playoffs the last game of the season each time. We can say they were mediocre or we can say they were on the cusp on getting into the postseason, because once you get in to the postseason, the game changes. Perhaps I am just a glass half full guy, with a mean streak, but if Cowboys add one impact player last season or the season before, someone like Seymour - what kind of opportunities would he provide to a team on the cusp of making the playoffs? A team not just devoid of talent, of health, but of leadership as well. Seymour is a proven winner and while his skills have declined, what kind of emotional/mental edge could he have provided? Landry's 70's teams always credit the inclusion of vets like Mike Ditka, Herb Adderley, Jackie Smith, Lance Alworth in taking them from Next Year's Champions to America's Team. Grit and championship mentality is learned, not just earned.

What you say makes sense.

In a season like this one, I just don't want to keep a Nick Hayden over a Ken Bishop even if Hayden is slightly better at this minute. If they could get a Seymour type to replace Hayden, then that would be different, but it's probably too late for that. Also, if that Seymour type costs 10M for this season and 10M next season, then I would prefer to just wait and spend the 20M on 2 guys of that caliber next season when some other positions are hopefully more resolved.

 

[windward]

Conversely, look at the defensive players added (or not) during that same time period.

Partly explains why we have half of a team.

oh it's not perfect, but the 06-09 drafts have helped put us in this position. I'd argue that our recent drafting has helped us stay near .500 then being 6-10 or worse.

 

[Stash]

oh it's not perfect, but the 06-09 drafts have helped put us in this position. I'd argue that our recent drafting has helped us stay near .500 then being 6-10 or worse.

While I would counter with the fact that players acquired under Parcells had a lot to do with that too.

Unfortunately, that window has closed...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks for telling me what I want. What I want is not to depend on injured/unavailable players, unlike others taking a wait and see attitude has never sat well with me. Explore opportunities instead of settling for injured players to return to their pro bowl form (which were outliers instead of constants to begin with). I would rather develop the young players now instead of later. At least give them a fighting chance. And the draft is simply ONE tool. Any business man would fail if he only relied on ONE resource to generate success. And signing scrubs is not my idea of mining the FA market for success.

If you don't want to deal with injuries then I recommend following a different sport. And your level of analysis is mostly emotional generalizations like scrub, jag, etc. Sorry if I find that worthless.

Who is to say they have not entertained trade offers or pursuing some? Like I said people have no clue how to handle uncertainty.

If you want to have a discussion about trades for specific players that are known to be available as well as the opportunity cost then fine but your quick fix scheme sounds like the type of thought that led to awful WR trades in the past. Sustainable success in the NFL is done through the draft. Lawrence was not hurt when they drafted him.

By all means rant some more though.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What is amusing is the notion that one trade is going to magically make the defense work.

Our corner depth especially without Oscan is suspect. Our S depth sucks. We have a bunch of young development guys in the front 7.

Some people think a guy like 2012 Seymour -who OAK gave up a 1st for- is going to fix that. This mentality that a quick fix has to exist is childish frankly.

 

[Wolfpack]

Hope is all you get when your strategic blueprint for your organization doesn't exist.

3 defensive coordinators in three years. 3 offensive coordinators in three years equal no vision at all. Knee jerk reactions.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Suh for witten ! Escobar has gained strength and is ready to go!

 

[Sinister]

Strawman is a fallacy. What argument have I made that is fallacious? Be specific. And a nihilist regression to saying that any move have they made doesn't matter doesn't count. We all get that you have already given up.

Your argument that I think is fallacious is the idea that just bringing in players means that the Cowboys 'have done what counts.'

What I'm saying is that the Cowboys moves have no strategy (or that their strategy in regards to the defense has been poor), they pick up players that they hope (as OP stated in the beginning of this thread) have the talent to succeed in this defense. Drafting 7th round defensive lineman and bringing in UDFA and hoping they succeed is not a good strategy. Drafting tight-ends in the second round multiple years when the need is on defense in not a good strategy. Drafting small school/undersized defensive backs in multiple drafts is not a good strategy.

I have no problem with some of their picks on offense what I have a problem is the fact that their just doesn't appear to be a cohesive strategy (as OP stated).

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your argument that I think is fallacious is the idea that just bringing in players means that the Cowboys 'have done what counts.'

What I'm saying is that the Cowboys moves have no strategy (or that their strategy in regards to the defense has been poor), they pick up players that they hope (as OP stated in the beginning of this thread) have the talent to succeed in this defense. Drafting 7th round defensive lineman and bringing in UDFA and hoping they succeed is not a good strategy. Drafting tight-ends in the second round multiple years when the need is on defense in not a good strategy. Drafting small school/undersized defensive backs in multiple drafts is not a good strategy.

I have no problem with some of their picks on offense what I have a problem is the fact that their just doesn't appear to be a cohesive strategy (as OP stated).

That is not a fallacy. You don't agree but that is not the same thing. Try harder.

Must suck to have to hate Escobar. He is playing well.

Drafting multiple front 7 players including one at the top of the second round doesn't count because two of them got hurt.
Signing Melton, Mincey, Coleman and McClain don't count because you don't feel good about them.
Trading for McClain doesn't count because he isn't a sure thing.

They draft TE multiple times to go for a 2 TE base. They draft OL early 3 out of 4 years. You don't see a strategy. I think that speaks more about you then it does the organization.