'Horns in Trouble

[joseephuss]

why did not take Mack a few years he took over a 4-7 team and went 9-2 in his 1st year.

Actually they went 9-3 in 1998. Mack inherited a talented team that underachieved in 1997. Texas had some decent teams in 1995 and 1996 and just fell apart in 1997. Strong is inheriting the same kind of situation. Texas has not looked great the last few seasons. They have a decent record, but have not looked that strong. Mack also lucked into a good QB in Major Applewhite. I say lucked because he wasn't initially the starter that season and only played due to injury. Maybe the same thing will happen this season, but I doubt it. These QBs need more experience before they can consistently win games.

 

[Aikbach]

Brown and Grey both have NFL ability. The Horns aren't shallow there.
I am not a Horns fan but those 2 RBs were the best two RB I saw in the last 5 years of Texas high school football.

I badly wanted Grey to leave Aledo and go to Tech where his Dad played.
That kid can flat play.

The team needed some toughness and Strong will bring that out of those guys.

I fear UT more than Baylor right now as a Tech fan. Because Texas has the money and resources to back a dynasty when they win.
Baylor is built on a single thread that is an aging Art Briles.

58 is aging? Back in January you were convinced he was UT's savior, ready to take the reigns and work wonders in Austin, quite a change of tune.

Is Bama doomed since Saban is 61?

In any event as far as age and coaching is concerned Bill Snyder, Bobby Bowden, and Joe Paterno say hi.

 

[jterrell]

58 is aging? Back in January you were convinced he was UT's savior, ready to take the reigns and work wonders in Austin, quite a change of tune.

Is Bama doomed since Saban is 61?

In any event as far as age and coaching is concerned Bill Snyder, Bobby Bowden, and Joe Paterno say hi.

Briles would have been excellent at UT as he is at Baylor.
Thought the distinction was pretty clear in what I stated.
UT has money and resources and history Baylor simply doesn't.

58 was about the last time Mack Brown had a top 5 recruiting class. Not saying Baylor is subject to the same fate merely noting age is a factor.
As is how long does Kendal stick at Baylor before getting a more prominent gig. He is Baylor's top recruiter.
Mack's key recruiters left and that's where he fell off.

Snyder, Paterno and Bowden have had limited success as they aged. And by limited I mean their success was far grander when they were younger.
Fisher immediately got FSU competing at a higher level.
Snyder is up and down as his JUCO classes go.
Paterno wasn't even coaching at the end but was basically a figurehead.

The best recruiter in the Big 12 is Kliff Kingsbury. Will be interesting to see how that plays out over time as it is hard to recruit to Lubbock/West Texas.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

For play action to work you have actually be able to pass.
When you can't it looks a lot like what Bama does... which is barely manageable with 5 star recruits at every position.

The Pistol opens up lanes and both Brown and Grey ran it in high school for tons of yards and touchdowns. And it makes the QBs running threats with strong arms which is what they are.
Both guys are built like Keapernick who basically made the pistol main stream.

Play action requires savvy QBs with good timing and discipline, not 7on 7 type spread offense kids.

Bama has done it, primarily with a strong running game and stout defense. Charlie Strong is going to build a strong Defense. Be it 3star, 4star or 5star recruits, they will be able to field a strong Defensive Unit IMO. Offensively, the Horns are going to have a very good, very physical OL. They will be an excellent run blocking unit. Wickline will do that for Texas. I think the focus here should be on what you want to be going forward and not necessarily what might work now. It's pretty critical that you build for the future with an eye on what talent will fit what you want to accomplish long term. If the decision is to run a spread offensive scheme going forward, then obviously, you recruit for that system but I don't think you do that if your intention are to run a different type of Offense. You would then simply have to go back and redo, if you will, all you have taught. The window for Strong, as I mentioned earlier, if probably three years or so. I don't think he can afford to take an approach that installs one offense this year and then goes back and installs something else later. I don't think he has that luxury (JMO). I think that play action is actually easier for young QBs because it takes the pressure off of them to make plays. The Defense has to account for a strong running attack and the reads are generally two or three. The spread is probably easier for the talent that Texas has now but, going forward, I don't think that is what Strong wants.

I can see more uptempo offense but balance is what I see as the focal point for Texas. I could see them running more hurry up but I think they will want to lean more toward a Pro Style scheme and that lends itself to play action IMO. That's the simplest Pro Style scheme for a QB to run.

 

[jterrell]

Bama has done it, primarily with a strong running game and stout defense. Charlie Strong is going to build a strong Defense. Be it 3star, 4star or 5star recruits, they will be able to field a strong Defensive Unit IMO. Offensively, the Horns are going to have a very good, very physical OL. They will be an excellent run blocking unit. Wickline will do that for Texas. I think the focus here should be on what you want to be going forward and not necessarily what might work now. It's pretty critical that you build for the future with an eye on what talent will fit what you want to accomplish long term. If the decision is to run a spread offensive scheme going forward, then obviously, you recruit for that system but I don't think you do that if your intention are to run a different type of Offense. You would then simply have to go back and redo, if you will, all you have taught. The window for Strong, as I mentioned earlier, if probably three years or so. I don't think he can afford to take an approach that installs one offense this year and then goes back and installs something else later. I don't think he has that luxury (JMO). I think that play action is actually easier for young QBs because it takes the pressure off of them to make plays. The Defense has to account for a strong running attack and the reads are generally two or three. The spread is probably easier for the talent that Texas has now but, going forward, I don't think that is what Strong wants.

I can see more uptempo offense but balance is what I see as the focal point for Texas. I could see them running more hurry up but I think they will want to lean more toward a Pro Style scheme and that lends itself to play action IMO. That's the simplest Pro Style scheme for a QB to run.

Not sure what to say except nothing in Strong's Louisville tenure, Wickline's OSU tenure or the players they've recruited lean towards any of what you've stated. Swoopes and Heard are dual threat spread QBs.

The NFL doesn't even run pro style play action as a base anymore.
It is all spread all the time in Texas high schools and largely college and now even the pros.
High powered running games like Baylor and Oregon do so out of spread formations.

You might as well suggest they go back to the wishbone or veer offenses for how outdated that is as a concept on the collegiate level.

Alabama has the best recruiting possible the last 5 years and they've struggled mightily with that offense in place to the extent Saban has considered going to a spread.

Strong has about 2-3 years at UT. He doesn't have a long leash. And any other coach the school pursues will almost assuredly bring in a high powered spread offensive attack.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not sure what to say except nothing in Strong's Louisville tenure, Wickline's OSU tenure or the players they've recruited lean towards any of what you've stated. Swoopes and Heard are dual threat spread QBs.

The NFL doesn't even run pro style play action as a base anymore.
It is all spread all the time in Texas high schools and largely college and now even the pros.
High powered running games like Baylor and Oregon do so out of spread formations.

You might as well suggest they go back to the wishbone or veer offenses for how outdated that is as a concept on the collegiate level.

Alabama has the best recruiting possible the last 5 years and they've struggled mightily with that offense in place to the extent Saban has considered going to a spread.

Strong has about 2-3 years at UT. He doesn't have a long leash. And any other coach the school pursues will almost assuredly bring in a high powered spread offensive attack.

Swoopes and Heard are not Strongs QBs. They are what he has been left with. The NFL doesn't run what you think of as a Pro Style Play Action you might think of from the 70s or 80s but they definitely still do run Pro Style Play Action in the NFL. Philly will likely be running a Pro Set with two backs and teams like Baltimore and Seattle do run Play Action a lot. It's still there in the NFL but that's not really what we are talking about. We are talking about what Texas might run and I think it's going to lean more towards a Pro Style type Offense. If you are going to run that, then the easiest one for a QB to run is play action IMO.

Saban may go to a spread but I doubt it. You can say that Bama has struggled but they have won 3 NCs in 5 years. I'll take that kind of struggle, as a Texas Fan.

 

[jterrell]

Swoopes and Heard are not Strongs QBs. They are what he has been left with. The NFL doesn't run what you think of as a Pro Style Play Action you might think of from the 70s or 80s but they definitely still do run Pro Style Play Action in the NFL. Philly will likely be running a Pro Set with two backs and teams like Baltimore and Seattle do run Play Action a lot. It's still there in the NFL but that's not really what we are talking about. We are talking about what Texas might run and I think it's going to lean more towards a Pro Style type Offense. If you are going to run that, then the easiest one for a QB to run is play action IMO.

Saban may go to a spread but I doubt it. You can say that Bama has struggled but they have won 3 NCs in 5 years. I'll take that kind of struggle, as a Texas Fan.

last post on this for me because we aren't covering any ground just re-stating opinions.

If Strong wanted to go get a QB he could have grabbed a JUCO kid to come run a pocket based offense.
He didn't. He reached out to Heard and kept him. He also had spread at Louisville where he did recruit his guys.
If you think he should put in an offense and then hope some 2015 recruit beats everyone out as a freshman in running it is smart you must want him fired.

If you think UT can win recruiting versus TAMU, Baylor, Tech, OU, OSU talking to recruits about a pro style offense nothing I say matters.
Mack Brown's plan was to move to more pro style stuff. And he was so 'in touch' he ended up fired.

Philly runs a spread, PERIOD. A spread. They run ZERO pro style stuff. Yes, they'll use Sproles and McCoy together... nothing pro style about it. That is a tail back and a flanker.

Seattle runs a ground oriented attack meant to minimize the effect of the QB and essentially allow their defense to win games.

Saban with 3 titles in 5 years admitted he considered changing offenses this Spring. He realized he won those titles with a litany of NFL caliber defenders no one can keep up with.
He held off because he is in a position of recruiting anyone he wants; UT is not.

If you think UT with it's current roster is a good pro style offensive team you are simply misreading those kids and badly.
If you look at stats of the UNT game the yardage gained was all outside. Both running and passing.
The skill guys all have big play capabilities and that is what UT must ride.
An aggressive defense and big play offense.

 

[Doc50]

Bama has done it, primarily with a strong running game and stout defense. Charlie Strong is going to build a strong Defense. Be it 3star, 4star or 5star recruits, they will be able to field a strong Defensive Unit IMO. Offensively, the Horns are going to have a very good, very physical OL. They will be an excellent run blocking unit. Wickline will do that for Texas. I think the focus here should be on what you want to be going forward and not necessarily what might work now. It's pretty critical that you build for the future with an eye on what talent will fit what you want to accomplish long term. If the decision is to run a spread offensive scheme going forward, then obviously, you recruit for that system but I don't think you do that if your intention are to run a different type of Offense. You would then simply have to go back and redo, if you will, all you have taught. The window for Strong, as I mentioned earlier, if probably three years or so. I don't think he can afford to take an approach that installs one offense this year and then goes back and installs something else later. I don't think he has that luxury (JMO). I think that play action is actually easier for young QBs because it takes the pressure off of them to make plays. The Defense has to account for a strong running attack and the reads are generally two or three. The spread is probably easier for the talent that Texas has now but, going forward, I don't think that is what Strong wants.

I can see more uptempo offense but balance is what I see as the focal point for Texas. I could see them running more hurry up but I think they will want to lean more toward a Pro Style scheme and that lends itself to play action IMO. That's the simplest Pro Style scheme for a QB to run.

Unfortunately, Texas is 2 years away from having a dominant OL, and their stud RB's will be gone (remember their draft score was greatly enhanced when they signed Gray - voted by some as the top prospect in the nation). We currently don't have that kind of RB pipeline, but we can find somebody to run behind a tough OL. We appear to have good young WR talent, and Heard should be coming into his own by then. The D should be dominant in 2 yrs.

So, I think Strong will have the 'Horns very competitive by his 3rd year, and they may surprise next year.

If Swoopes hasn't progressed much (he looked bad in the Spring game) we may see Heard this year, even with the likelihood of rookie mistakes.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

If the Longhorns will be patient with Coach Strong he will build that program the right way.

I realize patience & football don't belong in the same sentence but they were floundering with Coach Brown.

This guy is a good coach.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

last post on this for me because we aren't covering any ground just re-stating opinions.

If Strong wanted to go get a QB he could have grabbed a JUCO kid to come run a pocket based offense.
He didn't. He reached out to Heard and kept him. He also had spread at Louisville where he did recruit his guys.
If you think he should put in an offense and then hope some 2015 recruit beats everyone out as a freshman in running it is smart you must want him fired.

If you think UT can win recruiting versus TAMU, Baylor, Tech, OU, OSU talking to recruits about a pro style offense nothing I say matters.
Mack Brown's plan was to move to more pro style stuff. And he was so 'in touch' he ended up fired.

Philly runs a spread, PERIOD. A spread. They run ZERO pro style stuff. Yes, they'll use Sproles and McCoy together... nothing pro style about it. That is a tail back and a flanker.

Seattle runs a ground oriented attack meant to minimize the effect of the QB and essentially allow their defense to win games.

Saban with 3 titles in 5 years admitted he considered changing offenses this Spring. He realized he won those titles with a litany of NFL caliber defenders no one can keep up with.
He held off because he is in a position of recruiting anyone he wants; UT is not.

If you think UT with it's current roster is a good pro style offensive team you are simply misreading those kids and badly.
If you look at stats of the UNT game the yardage gained was all outside. Both running and passing.
The skill guys all have big play capabilities and that is what UT must ride.
An aggressive defense and big play offense.

Philly will be running Pro Style sets this year. Watch and see.

As for the rest, I agree. We are restating our opinions. We'll have to watch and see which one is accurate.

 

[Doc50]

last post on this for me because we aren't covering any ground just re-stating opinions.

If Strong wanted to go get a QB he could have grabbed a JUCO kid to come run a pocket based offense.
He didn't. He reached out to Heard and kept him. He also had spread at Louisville where he did recruit his guys.
If you think he should put in an offense and then hope some 2015 recruit beats everyone out as a freshman in running it is smart you must want him fired.

If you think UT can win recruiting versus TAMU, Baylor, Tech, OU, OSU talking to recruits about a pro style offense nothing I say matters.
Mack Brown's plan was to move to more pro style stuff. And he was so 'in touch' he ended up fired.

Philly runs a spread, PERIOD. A spread. They run ZERO pro style stuff. Yes, they'll use Sproles and McCoy together... nothing pro style about it. That is a tail back and a flanker.

Seattle runs a ground oriented attack meant to minimize the effect of the QB and essentially allow their defense to win games.

Saban with 3 titles in 5 years admitted he considered changing offenses this Spring. He realized he won those titles with a litany of NFL caliber defenders no one can keep up with.
He held off because he is in a position of recruiting anyone he wants; UT is not.

If you think UT with it's current roster is a good pro style offensive team you are simply misreading those kids and badly.
If you look at stats of the UNT game the yardage gained was all outside. Both running and passing.
The skill guys all have big play capabilities and that is what UT must ride.
An aggressive defense and big play offense.

Your scheme strategy for the current and future O makes sense. Texas high school football is all about the spread; at least Heard has had plenty of experience with that at Guyer. The hot teams in the state are A&M, Baylor, and Tech --- because of their coaches, who can light it up and create the excitement that the kids have grown up with. Strong may be old-school tough, but he's in touch with that offensive mindset. As you've suggested, he'll need that to win some recruiting battles.

Again, we may see Heard and a wide open attack sooner than planned, due to the limitations of Swoopes and the current OL.

 

[Zordon]

Your scheme strategy for the current and future O makes sense. Texas high school football is all about the spread; at least Heard has had plenty of experience with that at Guyer. The hot teams in the state are A&M, Baylor, and Tech --- because of their coaches, who can light it up and create the excitement that the kids have grown up with. Strong may be old-school tough, but he's in touch with that offensive mindset. As you've suggested, he'll need that to win some recruiting battles.

Again, we may see Heard and a wide open attack sooner than planned, due to the limitations of Swoopes and the current OL.

Shawn Watson won't be here long imo. They initially wanted Tom Herman from Ohio State or Chad Morris from Clemson. Both have experience with the spread and ties to Texas high school football. Meyer would not let Herman leave and Morris has a ridiculous buyout. Watson's offense is not going attract star recruits here in the state. A&M runs about 20-30 more plays than us per game and they spread the ball around. I was very unimpressed with our offense on Saturday. Then again the QBs and Oline Mack left Strong are down right hideous.

 

[Doc50]

Shawn Watson won't be here long imo. They initially wanted Tom Herman from Ohio State or Chad Morris from Clemson. Both have experience with the spread and ties to Texas high school football. Meyer would not let Herman leave and Morris has a ridiculous buyout. Watson's offense is not going attract star recruits here in the state. A&M runs about 20-30 more plays than us per game and they spread the ball around. I was very unimpressed with our offense on Saturday. Then again the QBs and Oline Mack left Strong are down right hideous.

Agreed.

That's why the loss of Ash and Espinoza is so painful. While not elite, they were at least solid and experienced. It might now be good to open it and roll away from pressure, but I don't think Swoopes and the current staff are geared for that.

 

[Doc50]

Now both OT's are suspended for the BYU game.

When it rains.....................

 

[Doc50]

............ Oh, and now Mack's home in North Carolina has burned down.
He had just moved all his UT memorabilia there.

BTW, the OL will now be among the most inexperienced in the country with only 4 combined starts among them.

 

[Aikbach]

Swoopes reminds me of Terrance Parks, a train wreck from the Guy Morriss days at Baylor, could be a long year for the Longhorns if their defense can't bail them out.

 

[Doc50]

Swoopes reminds me of Terrance Parks, a train wreck from the Guy Morriss days at Baylor, could be a long year for the Longhorns if their defense can't bail them out.

Yeah, I remember that guy, about 10 yrs ago.
Big guy, good athlete, just not too sharp at QB.
Sounds like Swoopes.

 

[bounce]

Well, this season is a bust. I know it's a process with Strong's guys, but I wish the guys he DID keep would stay on the field. Three starting OL and your starting QB after one game. No team weathers that storm.

 

[joseephuss]

The OP nailed this one.

 

[Biggems]

I know swoopes is inexperienced, but they need to call for some longer pass plays already.