How are the Cowboys not a top 10 offense?

[TheMarathonContinues]

Take Amari Cooper and Ezekiel Elliot off the Cowboys. How much different in the rankings are they?

They are probably at the bottom. Take the two best players off of any team and they would rank at the bottom.

 

[kskboys]

Also known as a fan's opinion. Great thinking there...




Why? Why is that some "given"? To defend the fact that the Cowboys offense wasn't good? Once again, fan opinion vs the truth. I see the pattern. Their offensive struggles and issues weren't by design or some result of being "run first", they struggled. And nowhere more evident than in the red zone, where "run first" should be an advantage not a disadvantage, yet they were still 22nd in points scored and bottom of the league in red zone.

If your "style of offense" is your excuse for failure to score points, guess what? Change your offense!

There is no doubt that failing to score points will lose you most games. I don't disagree w/ that at all. However, it's not points scored so much as points per drive. How you score is extremely important. KC scoring too quickly is one of the reasons they lost in playoffs last year. D got gassed, and they had trouble sustaining drives. Their O definitely needs some tweaking. As good as Mahomes is, he sucked for like 3 quarters as he had no answer when NE threw all sorts of crapp at him. That's where being a ball control team comes in. Ball control teams have a ton of different ways to move the ball, and they can generally find one that works. Which is why Brady keeps winning super bowls.

 

[Stash]

Of course, but that's an oversimplification to be reserved for drunken barroom discussions. There is so much more to it than that. The teams who went w/ this idea always lost. I named them earlier. The teams who religiously marched down the field taking up 6+ minutes are the teams who generally win it all. I remember back w/ Emmit sometimes getting the ball first, and taking around 9 minutes off the clock to score. That's how you kill other teams.

Tell the Patriots that, the team that wins more games and championships than anyone else. They're the farthest thing from "Emmitt and 9 minutes off the clock". Their priority is scoring points, period.

It's not the number of points, it's using TOP to your advantage and then getting the ball in the end zone. Scoring TD's in the red zone when you get there is paramount to success in the playoffs. If you're kicking FG's, you better have an absolute shut down D.

There are a ton of factors to scoring more points than your opponent.

No, now you're confusing offense and defense, that's your issue. The rest of us are focused on the subject of this thread- the offense. That's what this is about.

 

[Sydla]

I got them at 24.8 without the Colts game which I’ll take it especially with crappy play calling and without Fredericks.

And that may be the reason of this thread but my point is there’s a argument to be made for why the Chiefs are better than the Colts and Eagles and why there’s a argument for why the Cowboys could be better.

Oh you are just looking at Cooper played games? Right, so their average is around 24.8.............

That being said there's an argument to be made why they could be better than their offense in 2018. But to argue that they are being disrespected by not being listed as a potential Top 10 offense is really reaching at this point.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Scoring is the problem. As in being not good at it. Score more points that the other guy and you win every game every time. But you want to try to discount the actual numbers and stats that show their issues in place of your own opinions?

Yeah because I don’t need stats to tell me how good or bad this offense is. In 2016 it was great stats wise but still I could tell the playbook is outdated and would cause problems down the road like it always has. The offense wasn’t great under Romo either he just made it better than it was by bailing out or crap plays.

 

[Stash]

There is no doubt that failing to score points will lose you most games. I don't disagree w/ that at all. However, it's not points scored so much as points per drive. How you score is extremely important. KC scoring too quickly is one of the reasons they lost in playoffs last year. D got gassed, and they had trouble sustaining drives. Their O definitely needs some tweaking. As good as Mahomes is, he sucked for like 3 quarters as he had no answer when NE threw all sorts of crapp at him. That's where being a ball control team comes in. Ball control teams have a ton of different ways to move the ball, and they can generally find one that works. Which is why Brady keeps winning super bowls.

Of course there's a component of playing defense, but at the end of the day if you score when you need to, and more than the other guy, you win. Every single time. If they can stop you, your offense failed to do its job, plain and simple. Their defense outperformed your offense.

 

[Brax]

Those comebacks represent he’s a clutch performer. The bigger question might be why are we needing to come from behind so often?

because they fail to score much in the first 3

 

[kskboys]

I think there’s a reason why he doesn’t turn it over. He takes very few chances downfield which his indecisiveness and inconsistency is a contributing factor to our passing offense at times. And my hunch is these same tendencies are a hindrance in Redzone as well.

Possibly. However, Dak has been taught to not turn the ball over, so there's a good chance it's simply in his makeup at this point. Most super bowl winning QB's take very few chances downfield. The best method that I've observed is to throw short/mid prolifically, and at some point the other team is going to have to bring up some help, at which point the mid/deep stuff opens up. Problem is, we haven't been consistent enough short. Hopefully, w/ a different OC, that changes.

Don't miss the fact that every QB we've had has had major problems running Linehan's O. Maybe Dak is the problem, maybe he's not.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Oh you are just looking at Cooper played games? Right, so their average is around 24.8.............

That being said there's an argument to be made why they could be better than their offense in 2018. But to argue that they are being disrespected by not being listed as a potential Top 10 offense is really reaching at this point.

Oh no I’m not arguing for this team to gain any respect. I was just arguing the list is crap. I think it’s debatable to put the Cowboys in there but there’s arguments for 4 other teams too.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

So KM who spent his whole NFL career under SL is going to be some magic cure

because they fail to score much in the first 3

Honestly? I don’t even expect Moore to have as much say as most. I think Garrett is going to be in charge of this offense. Moore is less stubborn than Linehan and probably willing to listen more than him.

 

[Brax]

Honestly? I don’t even expect Moore to have as much say as most. I think Garrett is going to be in charge of this offense. Moore is less stubborn than Linehan and probably willing to listen more than him.

sorry about that, 2 reply's I edited it too correct, the 2 are unrelated.

 

[glimmerman]

Scott Linehan.

Dude never adjusted, wasn’t with the players and did his own thing.

If Zeke openly admits, Moore listens to them more and will do things to help that they see on the field, that’s all you need to know.

Plus anybody who watched any game the past few seasons, knew how predictable and vanilla our scheme was.

We will be finding out soon enough. Moore can make simple changes, he don’t have to total redo anything. If he listens to the players and makes some halftime changes then I think that perhaps we can open leads we already have and not have to make Dak need to make as many last drive heroics (although sometimes I like the nail biting).

 

[kskboys]

Of course there's a component of playing defense, but at the end of the day if you score when you need to, and more than the other guy, you win. Every single time. If they can stop you, your offense failed to do its job, plain and simple. Their defense outperformed your offense.

Yes, but this idea did not work in the playoffs. ATL found that out. You need ball control. What I'm saying is that just scoring is not enough. There are many facets to this. Teams that have some wide open O who score a ton don't win in the playoffs. Scoring points is of course important, but there are simply so many other things that narrowing it down to just that promotes inaccuracies and O's that lose to ball control teams.

I'm not defending Dak, BTW. We need to get the ball in the end zone on drives, hands down. What I hope is that the changing the O to long passes every time we get in the red zone comes to a schreeching halt.

 

[JayFord]

When you call the same plays out of the same formation regardless of who’s calling them since 2007 it’s a wonder we aren’t 32nd

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

When you call the same plays out of the same formation regardless of who’s calling them since 2007 it’s a wonder we aren’t 32nd

I don’t get it either. Should be easy to tell what they will do every play.

 

[MarcusRock]

Steelers were 4th in yards per game and 5th in points per game last year. I think people seemingly forget they are a very good offense. I don't know if it's because people stereotype them as some ground and pound team, but they have typically been a very prolific offense. If Big Ben can manage to stay healthy, they will be a legit offense most likely. AIthough it will remain to be seen what they can do with Brown, however.

They are also likely banking on the Eagles returning to their SB year offense. With Wentz, they were Top 5 in scoring and total offense. If he's healthy, they should be very good. They have a good OL, real options at TB now, they have dynamic TEs and a decent group of WRs.

The Colts were 7th in scoring and yards per game last year.

Are you really expecting fans to know anything about teams other than the Cowboys? I'm just impressed I got through the first page without cries of "BIAS!" or "CONSPIRACY!" even though it's implied in the thread title.

 

[kskboys]

Tell the Patriots that, the team that wins more games and championships than anyone else. They're the farthest thing from "Emmitt and 9 minutes off the clock". Their priority is scoring points, period.



No, now you're confusing offense and defense, that's your issue. The rest of us are focused on the subject of this thread- the offense. That's what this is about.

No, actually, NE is the polar opposite of that. They are all about ball control. They use the "Emmit method" w/ prolific short passes. Same philosophy, just different way of going about it. However, they score TD's after driving the field. That's what we do need to improve, no doubt. They are about scoring TD's, but there's just so much more to it than that.

The O and D of a team are tied together. Can't really come to an accurate conclusion w/o considering both. Take the Falcons, for instance. In their super bowl year, they actually had a great D. However, since they were all about scoring, they ignored TOP, and in the end that rose up and bit them.

Three most important things to an O, and they are tied together, no order:

Scoring
TOP
No TO's

W/o all 3 of these, almost all teams fail in the playoffs.

 

[Stash]

Yeah because I don’t need stats to tell me how good or bad this offense is. In 2016 it was great stats wise but still I could tell the playbook is outdated and would cause problems down the road like it always has. The offense wasn’t great under Romo either he just made it better than it was by bailing out or crap plays.

Stats > Opinions

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

They are probably at the bottom. Take the two best players off of any team and they would rank at the bottom.

Now remove 2017 rushing leader Kareem Hunt and 1400 yard WR Tyreek Hill off the Chiefs. Two best on any team? Them and Kelce were it. Watkins is not great, Williams at RB was a surprise but probably won't match anything near Hunt's potential.

They're still a strong offense, but Mahomes aint throwing 50 this year, and they wont have a top running game. They don't have that Djax type guy to move the safeties 10 yard back to open huge lanes for the RBs. Sammy Watkins is now their star WR, he aint getting 1400 yards.

 

[Stash]

Yes, but this idea did not work in the playoffs. ATL found that out. You need ball control. What I'm saying is that just scoring is not enough. There are many facets to this. Teams that have some wide open O who score a ton don't win in the playoffs. Scoring points is of course important, but there are simply so many other things that narrowing it down to just that promotes inaccuracies and O's that lose to ball control teams.

I'm not defending Dak, BTW. We need to get the ball in the end zone on drives, hands down. What I hope is that the changing the O to long passes every time we get in the red zone comes to a schreeching halt.

I think we agree more than we don't.