How bad will Garrett be this year?

[CoCo]

Reminds me of the Penn St./Sandusky or the Zimmerman/Martin threads.

Back and forth, ... back and forth. But nothing accomplished or minds changed.

Minds seem to rarely be changed on CZ. It's not just this thread. I wish there was more openness, but no big deal as long as you know what to expect.

Regarding this thread in particular, go back to the OP

1. Last season was the worst coaching job I've seen in a decade, in college or pro, by any team I'm a fan of.

2. Will Garrett be as awful this year as he was the last?

Point #1 - I didn't see much if any support from others on this point over the 19 pages but then it was a pretty poorly constructed statement because "of any team I'm a fan of" created confusion as to just what the OP's point really was?

Point #2 - I think again the vast majority seemed to be hopeful that Garrett would in fact improve this year with discussion mostly centered on in-game decision-making.

My observation is that one reason this thread became as long as it did was because of point #1 and the confusing hyperbole with which it was stated.

Not sure the OP (and a couple others) ever caught on to that as he soon twisted the issue into "you can't criticize Garrett at all" which in fact is not an accurate reflection of his OP at all and a misrepresentation of the folks who don't agree with is specific examples or magnitude of impact.

Which leads me to this. This thread is a classic example of why so much discussion goes awry here. Exaggeration, misrepresentation, and denial.

But don't be confused into thinking as someone else posted that this thread contains equal parts...

- Garrett can do no wrong.
- Garrett can do no right.
- I'm going to wait and see.

It's not true. The OP seems to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Garrett was not the best hire as HC and is trying to present evidence of specific Garrett mistakes that many simply are not buying as either mistakes at all, or of the magnitude being declared. From this the OP jumps to "Garrett supporters can't stand ANY criticism of his work." That is misrepresentation of the posts made in this thread.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Reminds me of the Penn St./Sandusky or the Zimmerman/Martin threads.

Back and forth, ... back and forth. But nothing accomplished or minds changed.

It's all irrelevant anyway. We're just killing time until the season starts. That's the best time. I'll probably retreat to the off-topic zone. It doesn't matter. It's all speculation and we won't know until it's played out on the field. I was just discussing the future, which is never a good idea. At least I was basing it off the past, but that seems to be a bad idea as well.

*Shrugs

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

To clarify, I meant to take a side in the Garrett debate. Why? That's what I think, number one. And two, to generate discussion. I didn't attack anyone on the board. I attacked some of the viewpoints, in a way, but I was talking about the team and its coach.

 

[DeaconBlues]

[youtube]KHy7DGLTt8g[/youtube]

That is the Greatest Sax Video of all time. :worthy2:

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

Minds seem to rarely be changed on CZ. It's not just this thread. I wish there was more openness, but no big deal as long as you know what to expect.

Regarding this thread in particular, go back to the OP



Point #1 - I didn't see much if any support from others on this point over the 19 pages but then it was a pretty poorly constructed statement because "of any team I'm a fan of" created confusion as to just what the OP's point really was?

You should have asked rather than assume. You can ask most on this board, I'm not a draft junkie. Why? Because I don't watch a lot of college ball other than Texas colleges. Why? I don't know. I just grew up that way.... It's why I rarely try my hand at draft commentary or anything of that nature. It'd be like me urinating into the wind..

So I only watch a few coaches on the college level in terms of watching their teams play for a season or to any substantive degree. I only have so much time for football nowadays.

I've seen some bad coaches over the years, but mostly good. In that sense I guess I'm fortunate. Some posters pointed that out earlier in the thread and I think they got what I meant.

You should have watched X Coach, if you thought Garrett was bad, et cetera.

I admitted I don't watch a lot of other teams. Do you think perhaps to generate a discussion? Do you know how many people on this board know other teams? Read the board. A lot of collective knowledge exists on this board. So I choose a brief way of generating what I hoped would be a discussion and maybe a few posters could compare other bad or good coaching jobs to Garrett.

A poster did this when he brought up Payton's first 3 years, et cetera.

Point #2 - I think again the vast majority seemed to be hopeful that Garrett would in fact improve this year with discussion mostly centered on in-game decision-making.

I think we're all hoping for that. I'm not calling for Jason's head or anything. Did you notice I didn't say fire him? I said that after last season. And given last season's blunders. I do think he should be on a short leash if he coaches like that, in games, next year. We don't want our team wasting time. I'd expect Jerry to do the obvious. Either stick with Garrett or hire a new coach.

In all honesty I'm hoping we stick with Garrett?

Why?

Because that would prove he actually did a good job this year.

If you want a GM, Garrett would definitely be my guy.... But we all know that's not happening.

My observation is that one reason this thread became as long as it did was because of point #1 and the confusing hyperbole with which it was stated.

How is it hyperbole? I wrote it the way I would have said it. Maybe you've forgotten last season, but go back and watch it... it doesn't make you cringe?

Not sure the OP (and a couple others) ever caught on to that as he soon twisted the issue into "you can't criticize Garrett at all" which in fact is not an accurate reflection of his OP at all and a misrepresentation of the folks who don't agree with is specific examples or magnitude of impact.

It certainly isn't popular to criticize Garrett.

Someone wrote on my facebook how the rating system was pure hackery, because if you write something negative it gets one star...something positive 5 stars, et cetera.

There is truth outside of CZ. I love this place, though, don't get me wrong. I do apologize if you honestly think I meant to use hyperbole. I was being cynical more than anything.

Which leads me to this. This thread is a classic example of why so much discussion goes awry here. Exaggeration, misrepresentation, and denial.

You mean like Tom Landry has something to do with Jason Garrett? It doesn't work as a comparison. It's fallacious to think it does.

But don't be confused into thinking as someone else posted that this thread contains equal parts...

- Garrett can do no wrong.
- Garrett can do no right.
- I'm going to wait and see.

We all know that's what we're really going to have to do, don't we? It's a waiting game at this point. I just know it was bad last year. I hope it's good next year. Would that have been a better way of putting it?

It's not true. The OP seems to believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that Garrett was not the best hire as HC and is trying to present evidence of specific Garrett mistakes that many simply are not buying as either mistakes at all, or of the magnitude being declared. From this the OP jumps to "Garrett supporters can't stand ANY criticism of his work." That is misrepresentation of the posts made in this thread.

Yes, I pointed to some crucial, costly mistakes made during the season.... I'll await the cute images and smilies from those I've disgruntled by doing so. Shoot me for trying to generate discussion. To me, it's like when you have a running back who fumbles, and it costs you 3 games. You gotta wonder will he drop the ball again or not....

But that's just my way of thinking.

 

[Lonestar94]

I'm just here to troll :shush:

:tongue:

 

[CoCo]

You're last post in this thread is probably one of your best in this thread Ben. I'll give you that. Had you used that tone throughout this thread it wouldn't have gone as it did.

Does last season make me cringe? No. That's not a defense of Garrett but rather a realization that what some believe might have been, I don't believe was likely at all.

Do I think Garrett point blank cost us games last year? Hard to say, so many ifs. Using your examples?

1) Detroit - I won't regurgitate the details folks have accurately posted on this. It's not (IMO) as simple as "its Garrett's fault Romo threw 2 pick sixes." I get folks want to be knee jerk. Go for it. Count me out.

2) New England - I'll say this. I wouldn't depend on my mediocre defense to hold a lead late in Foxboro against Tom Brady. We were asking for trouble, and we got it. The flip side says that Garrett gave his O-line a chance to step-up & close out the game, or his defense, and they both failed.

3) Arizona - "Icing the kicker" See my earlier post. Want to lose credibility with me - claim that Garrett iced his own kicker. Stupid & lazy "thinking". But I do know its so fun to say...

4) Arizona - The clearest example of a Garrett mistake - not calling TO after Dez 1st down. Settling for the long FG. Save the clock, get closer. Who knows what would've happened? We don't. But I'd have tried.

I don't second guess and claim this or that would happen, much AT ALL. Folks who do, oversimplify and jump to conclusions IMO.

Not popular to criticize Garrett? Way oversimplified IMO. If your goal was to generate discussion - mission accomplished! Hyperbole is good firestarter. If you want good discussion, try a balanced approach. Forgive my condescending tone. There were all sorts of posts in this thread where Garrett supporters acknowledged concern about his inexperience and uncertainty as to just what his results ultimately will be. Clear evidence of folks willing to listen to good reason if someone will present it.

Landry comparisons and other similar hyperbole, I get it. So state your disagreement and move on. But just know that is EXACTLY the premise your entire thread was built on. Don't try to weasle out by saying "well I don't watch many teams." One poster DID try to clarify on page 1. I believe my first post questioned that issue as well. You blew right on past. So if you think folks misrepresented YOU as a Garrett hater - well you set yourself up, could have backed off, and only now are becoming conciliatory. Good for you. Better late than never.

I like you Ben. I just think this thread was a disaster you are primarily responsible for. Not that a couple folks on the "other side" didn't eventually add their own fuel. Again, forgive my directness.

 

[CowboyMcCoy]

You're last post in this thread is probably one of your best in this thread Ben. I'll give you that. Had you used that tone throughout this thread it wouldn't have gone as it did.

Does last season make me cringe? No. That's not a defense of Garrett but rather a realization that what some believe might have been, I don't believe was likely at all.

Do I think Garrett point blank cost us games last year? Hard to say, so many ifs. Using your examples?

1) Detroit - I won't regurgitate the details folks have accurately posted on this. It's not (IMO) as simple as "its Garrett's fault Romo threw 2 pick sixes." I get folks want to be knee jerk. Go for it. Count me out.

2) New England - I'll say this. I wouldn't depend on my mediocre defense to hold a lead late in Foxboro against Tom Brady. We were asking for trouble, and we got it. The flip side says that Garrett gave his O-line a chance to step-up & close out the game, or his defense, and they both failed.

3) Arizona - "Icing the kicker" See my earlier post. Want to lose credibility with me - claim that Garrett iced his own kicker. Stupid & lazy "thinking". But I do know its so fun to say...

4) Arizona - The clearest example of a Garrett mistake - not calling TO after Dez 1st down. Settling for the long FG. Save the clock, get closer. Who knows what would've happened? We don't. But I'd have tried.

I don't second guess and claim this or that would happen, much AT ALL. Folks who do, oversimplify and jump to conclusions IMO.

Not popular to criticize Garrett? Way oversimplified IMO. If your goal was to generate discussion - mission accomplished! Hyperbole is good firestarter. If you want good discussion, try a balanced approach. Forgive my condescending tone. There were all sorts of posts in this thread where Garrett supporters acknowledged concern about his inexperience and uncertainty as to just what his results ultimately will be. Clear evidence of folks willing to listen to good reason if someone will present it.

Landry comparisons and other similar hyperbole, I get it. So state your disagreement and move on. But just know that is EXACTLY the premise your entire thread was built on. Don't try to weasle out by saying "well I don't watch many teams." One poster DID try to clarify on page 1. I believe my first post questioned that issue as well. You blew right on past. So if you think folks misrepresented YOU as a Garrett hater - well you set yourself up, could have backed off, and only now are becoming conciliatory. Good for you. Better late than never.

I like you Ben. I just think this thread was a disaster you are primarily responsible for. Not that a couple folks on the "other side" didn't eventually add their own fuel. Again, forgive my directness.

You're right. I should have kept the discussion between Eskimo and Scipio. I didn't break it down for everyone to see because I thought it was so obvious. I was looking for reasons to believe he'd be good next year. But we don't have much to go on, do we?

It's a wait and see...

Forgiven. Never was an issue really.

 

[CoCo]

You're right. I should have kept the discussion between Eskimo and Scipio. I didn't break it down for everyone to see because I thought it was so obvious. I was looking for reasons to believe he'd be good next year. But we don't have much to go on, do we?

It's a wait and see...

Forgiven. Never was an issue really.

Peace buddy!

 

[Lonestar94]

:shoot1:

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I think they need this more.

I half questions.
How did you come across that product?
How often do you use it?
If so, why?
Do you use it longterm or as needed?
do your significant other buy it for you or do you get it over the counter without blushing?
And, finally, do you agree with this statement: "When words fail, make a fast Internet search for props no matter how childish or . . . creepy."

thx Zrin
You remain one of my favorites here and that is the truth!

 

[StevenOtero]

[youtube]e2s5J3JKyTs[/youtube]

 

[perrykemp]

My $0.02 on Garrett is that by the end of this year Garrett will be grouped together with Peyton and McCarthy as the the top 3 combo HC/OC coaches in the NFL.

 

[zrinkill]

Mesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Mesa your humble servant. Hey yo, Daddy, Captain Tarpals. Mesa back. You-sa in big doo-doo dis time!

Thank you Gimmie....your post always crack me up.