How do Dallas fans really feel about Wade?

[Doomsday101]

Ok, so you are predicting what the future holds then.

No I think Wade comes here with a lot to prove and expectation will be high to win and win right away. I think Wade is a good coach but he will have to prove it where it matters and that will be on the field. Unlike you I do think Phillips is a good coach and I'm willing to sit back and see what he does instead of predicting all this doom and gloom or berating him.

 

[mschmidt64]

Unlike you I do think Phillips is a good coach and I'm willing to sit back and see what he does instead of predicting all this doom and gloom or berating him.

I think he's a mediocre coach and as such I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt, he'll have to prove it to me.

If we hired Dave Campo back, you wouldn't be giving the move any lenience, you'd be panning it.

So I guess it all hinges on your impression of the guy right now, really, and actually has nothing to do with how much we know or don't know of the future.

If you'd like to discuss the reasons I think Wade's a lousy coach, we can go there, but otherwise, there's plenty of reason to be doom and gloom here, if you can't convince me that he's a good head coach.

 

[mschmidt64]

Since he is the coach that Phillips is replacing he is very relevant. The players needed a change, the defensive scheme needed a change...we'll see now whether he gets over the top or not.

Right, so that's the real question here.

Can he do it?

His history says he can't.

Others point to his work as a coordinator and think he can simply "fix the defense," and that the offense will remain static.

I'm not buying. I don't think we are that dominant compared to everyone else, especially the AFC, and in order for us to win a Super Bowl, we won't be able to rely on talent. We'll have to get coached up at game time.... on BOTH sides of the ball, and the head coach will have to be able to do both.

Wade's not the guy to do that, IMO, and never has been.

And that, of course, is just the short term perspective.

Long term, there isn't much of an argument. If he can't keep Jerry out of the picture... we really are done for.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think he's a mediocre coach and as such I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt, he'll have to prove it to me.

If we hired Dave Campo back, you wouldn't be giving the move any lenience, you'd be panning it.

So I guess it all hinges on your impression of the guy right now, really, and actually has nothing to do with how much we know or don't know of the future.

If you'd like to discuss the reasons I think Wade's a lousy coach, we can go there, but otherwise, there's plenty of reason to be doom and gloom here, if you can't convince me that he's a good head coach.

I'm not here to convice you of any thing and no matter what I say about Phillips you come up with your own reason to dislike him. We get it you would not have hired Phillips but then many could be complaining about the guy you wanted. I will give any coach a chance to prove himself and I do see many good things Phillips brings to the Cowboys but in the end he will be judged by how he does in Dallas. This is not a team that will be looked at as a rebuilding team but a team who will be expected to be a playoff caliber team

 

[mschmidt64]

I'm not here to convice you of any thing and no matter what I say about Phillips you come up with your own reason to dislike him.

I'm not "coming up with my own reasons."

I'm simply saying... a 60 year old coach who is 0-3 in playoff games is not, to me, among the best coaches in the league.

Maybe some people like that, but I don't.

I will give any coach a chance to prove himself and I do see many good things Phillips brings to the Cowboys but in the end he will be judged by how he does in Dallas. This is not a team that will be looked at as a rebuilding team but a team who will be expected to be a playoff caliber team

Well, I don't have much of a choice now, but to sit back and see what he does, obviously.

But we all pass judgement based on how we percieve the candidates. If we hired Rich Kotite, no one would be saying "Oh, well, let's give him a chance."

It just so happens that with Phillips, some people think he's good enough.

I don't share that conclusion, and as such, I will not say or promote anything positive about the guy, other than to say, well, best of luck now that he's a Cowboy. But I see no hope in this, what am I supposed to do, lie about it?

 

[Doomsday101]

I'm not "coming up with my own reasons."

I'm simply saying... a 60 year old coach who is 0-3 in playoff games is not, to me, among the best coaches in the league.

Maybe some people like that, but I don't.



Well, I don't have much of a choice now, but to sit back and see what he does, obviously.

But we all pass judgement based on how we percieve the candidates. If we hired Rich Kotite, no one would be saying "Oh, well, let's give him a chance."

It just so happens that with Phillips, some people think he's good enough.

I don't share that conclusion, and as such, I will not say or promote anything positive about the guy, other than to say, well, best of luck now that he's a Cowboy. But I see no hope in this, what am I supposed to do, lie about it?

I did not say Wade was the best coach in the league. If he were he would currently be a HC instead of interviewing to become a HC. I think he is a good coach coming to a team that has some good talent. If you want think there is no hope well that is on you but because some of us do not share that outlook does not make us foolish or looking at this with rose colored glasses.

 

[mschmidt64]

I think he is a good coach coming to a team that has some good talent. If you want think there is no hope well that is on you but because some of us do not share that outlook does not make us foolish or looking at this with rose colored glasses.

I think it does. I didn't call you all morons or anything, but what am I supposed to say?

What if we hired Rich Kotite and some guy came on here saying it was a great move? I think, universally, it'd be like.... look buddy... you're kidding yourself.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I think it does. I didn't call you all morons or anything, but what am I supposed to say?

What if we hired Rich Kotite and some guy came on here saying it was a great move? I think, universally, it'd be like.... look buddy... you're kidding yourself.

Yeah, but comparing Rich Kotite to Wade Phillips is a bad analogy.

 

[mschmidt64]

Yeah, but comparing Rich Kotite to Wade Phillips is a bad analogy.

No, but I could very easily compare him to Denny Green.

 

[SultanOfSix]

No, but I could very easily compare him to Denny Green.

Well, you could compare almost any coach who hasn't won a SB to Denny Green.

What's your point?

There are no fantastic candidates out there. There are mostly retreads, fantastic coordinators (of which Phillips happens to be one), and complete unknowns.

 

[Doomsday101]

I think it does. I didn't call you all morons or anything, but what am I supposed to say?

What if we hired Rich Kotite and some guy came on here saying it was a great move? I think, universally, it'd be like.... look buddy... you're kidding yourself.

Well look at it this way I'm not lowering expectation so the pressure is on Wade in my mind to prove himself. If he fails then that is the way it goes but I don't know of any of the name candidates that I think could do any better. As I said I do think Wade brings some good things to the Cowboys and how it all plays out will be known one way or the other next season.

 

[mschmidt64]

Well, you could compare almost any coach who hasn't won a SB to Denny Green.

What's your point?

You just said it.

Retread head coaches who don't win Super Bowls -- or even playoff games -- are generally pretty low on the totem pole for me.

If I'm recycling, I want a coach who has won, and who has demonstrated beyond doubt that he is capable of raising a team to the next level. Holmgren, Cowher, Parcells, etc.

If I'm not getting that, I'd rather go with a young coordinator who is on the rise.

There are no fantastic candidates out there. There are mostly retreads, fantastic coordinators (of which Phillips happens to be one), and complete unknowns.

I can't sit here and tell you I know who would be better, though I have my suspicions (Rivera, Rex Ryan, etc).

What I can sit here and say is... you can always find quality head coaches. Sometimes it takes thinking outside the box. The Eagles got Andy Reid. Did they "know" he would pan out? Maybe not, but they interviewed him, liked his philosophy, and sure enough, after being appraised by the interviewing experts, they decided he was a good choice and he became a 10+ season head coach for them (or will be, they love him in Philly), and a guy who has them as continuous winners. If it wasn't for McBadd, they'd probably have won a Super Bowl by now.

Even if you don't like the Reid example, there are others that come from nowhere. And then there are those who are highly regarded as HC material -- Lovie Smith, Marvin Lewis, etc.

They are out there.

What I am saying is that, Wade Phillips is inferior to the kind of candidate that a good franchise would have found.

Maybe he was better than Norv. Maybe he was better than Gibbs and Caldwell. Maybe he was even better than Rivera.

But what I'm saying is.... from where I'm sitting.... his history isn't good enough, and his stock wasn't high enough. Jerry could have and should have found someone better than this, IMO.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Phillips lost two very close playoff games, one on a freak play.

That's exactly right. You really can't tell me who will be better who's available right now. Rivera has his own questions with Lovie Smith having say over the defense. Rex Ryan is a good DC, although not as good as Phillips, and he's a complete unknown at the HC position.

Phillips is an interim hire who has had a winning record as a head coach. He's an outstanding defensive coordinator who knows the intricacies of the 3-4 and can teach it to those under him. He was the best of who was available who isn't an unknown.

Our young gun and unknown is Garrett, who isn't ready, but he's on the staff, and is being groomed to take over HC.

The same philosophy established by BP wherever he's went.

The two guys who were real candidates were HC position were the ones who were here when BP was: Phillips and Garrett.

I am 99.99% certain he gave the thumbs up to Jerry on both of them.

 

[mschmidt64]

Phillips lost two very close playoff games, one on a freak play.

Losing is losing.

That's exactly right. You really can't tell me who will be better who's available right now. Rivera has his own questions with Lovie Smith having say over the defense. Rex Ryan is a good DC, although not as good as Phillips, and he's a complete unknown at the HC position.

Maybe not, but I know SOMEONE out there is better.

It's up to Jones to find him, not me.

And I can recognize a mediocre hire when I see one.

Like I said... a good franchise would have found someone good. Unfortunately, the Dallas Cowboys have become a mediocre establishment because their GM can't distinguish good from average or bad.

Phillips is an interim hire who has had a winning record as a head coach. He's an outstanding defensive coordinator who knows the intricacies of the 3-4 and can teach it to those under him. He was the best of who was available who isn't an unknown.

That's simply not good enough, in my book.

If you don't have faith in your ability to hire an unknown who will work out, then you should step down as GM and hire a GM who CAN pick out unknowns who will work. Someone like Ron Wolf.

But Jerry never hires unknowns. He always goes with known quantities because he doesn't trust himself to hire unknowns. He likes to know what he is getting. In this case, it severely limited our pool of candidates and led to us selecting a mediocre guy.

Our young gun and unknown is Garrett, who isn't ready, but he's on the staff, and is being groomed to take over HC.

I like Garrett.

But since I do not even begin to think that Wade can win big while we develop Garrett, I see this as wasting time, best case scenario.

If Garrett is the guy we like, he should have been given the job.

 

[BulletBob]

Considering we lost a HOF coach, and we're replacing him with a guy that failed everywhere he coached, I'm not very happy. But I expected something like this.

I don't know why we just didn't bring back Campo.

That HOF Coach that you so lament that we "lost" seems to have an overall record during his time with the Cowboys which is eerily similar to Wilson's overall record as a HC.

Just sayin ...

 

[carphalen5150]

Until Wade Phillips proves that he cannot win with this team, then I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Was he my first choice? Not really, but I really did not like any of the candidates that we brought in. If I had my choice it would of been to just hire Garrett, but I completely understand the hire and support it.

Looking in the division the only coach who I would take over Phillips right now is Reid. Gibbs seems to be in a time warp and Coughlin's people skills are slim to none.

 

[AmishCowboy]

Don't you Commander Trolls have some Draft Talk and Art Monk Crying to do over at ES?, rather then worrying about what we think of our Coach?.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Sorry, but you can't just step back and criticize Jerry for the move, and then say I know someone "out there" is better.

That's like being the prosecutor in a case who is questioned for his evidence and then says to the judge or the defense attorney, "Yeah, well, I know my case doesn't have any evidence against him, but I know he's guilty because I know someone 'out there' has evidence."

If you can recognize a mediocre hire for a coach, why aren't you out there picking coaches?

I've already stated why Phillips was the most logical hire, and why Garret is the unknown in the equation. We've killed two birds with one stone.

And all you've got is there is someone "out there" who is an unknown, but is better than Phillips and Jerry should have found him.

The result of which is impossible to determine until he actually coaches!

 

[mschmidt64]

Sorry, buddy but you can't just step back and criticize Jerry for the move, and then say I know someone "out there" is better.

Sure I can. I didn't research all the candidates.

But I can critisize Jones when he drafted Quincy Carter. You knew immediately he reached and made a bad pick.

I can't predict which one was better immediately, though I could have made some suggestions.

But sometimes it's easy to deduce a poor move.

And all you've got is there is someone "out there" who is an unknown, but is better than Phillips and Jerry should have found him.

There are always good assistants out there. It's simply a fact.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Sure I can. I didn't research all the candidates.

But I can critisize Jones when he drafted Quincy Carter. You knew immediately he reached and made a bad pick.

That would be analagous to hiring Garrett as the HC, not Phillips.

But sometimes it's easy to deduce a poor move.

A poor move isn't one where the only evidence against it is hiring "someone out there" who may be better.

There are always good assistants out there. It's simply a fact.

Yes, I know. Phillips is one of them.