How Special is Ezekiel?

DandyDon52

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This is the video of that 70 yard run. Go to 0:17 and you see Morris had a hole to run through 5 yards wide. Most High School RBs get 70 yards on that play.


And if it was elliot you would dismiss the size of the hole and somehow attribute it to his greatness and speed!
I see feed me make a lot of poor decicions on where to go with the ball, tackled for losses, no gain, fail on 4th and 1's, not break any long runs for td's.
And he was supposed to have the speed to make those long runs, and initially he did have that speed, but that is long gone.

Like I said E had great potential, in 2016, but since then he has chosen a party lifestyle rather than concentrate on being the best he can be.
He wants to just show up and play, and yeah he is still good but he is not great or anything special.

And this is just IMO but I think him wanting to be the highest paid RB is not about anything but his ego and his dads ego.
I think they both think he is the greatest RB ever, so sure it makes sense to them lol.

AP did more than elliot, and he got the big contract, but his team was hurt by that, and they never did anything special, and AP was very good.
He was better than elliot.
 

Playmaker3128

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To me zeke is one of those players that can play in this league a long time even at the rb position. His vision..... his ability to block and catch are all things that will still be useful to him once he inevitably slow down years down the road.

A great running game changes a lot. Especially come playoff time. The pats are the exception to this obviously. Even they use multiple running backs as well. Zeke is a playmaker and shouldn’t be discounted just because of his position.
 

Melonfeud

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LOL who tackled zeke?? casper the ghost?
plus you may like it, but hurdling players is very stupid and got him hurt last season. all he had to was cut right of the guy and he
probably goes all the way.
he also had a big hole to run through, I think I could of got to the 25 or further and I am way older than super elliot, and I would not fall down.
Well, he'd prolly gained twice more yardage than either you or I would've gained after that helmet crown to nut sack impacted contact,,, er,,,as I'll generously grant the dude that fact, as I'd of prolly face planted within one yard after ball sack contact,,,in all seriousness, Zeke damn ner' made an all time, immortalised in legendary N.F.L. T.D. scamper right there ,would his running gear not " over-stroked " it's design limitations (that was a stud horse running flat out, with the feed trough of oats within sight kinda' run right there:thumbup:)
 

ghst187

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RB coach Gary Brown said it in the All or Nothing documentary at one point that “Zeke gets dirty yards no one else can. There’s nothing there and Zeke will still pop out four yards”.
At least that’s as close to the exact words as I can remember.
I wouldn’t agree with paying a RB either but Zeke is HOF level talented and Dak needs those dirty yards and all the other things Zeke does at an elite level. Our offense and team is built around the OL 3x all pros plus other high draft picks) and having a RB rip off chunks of yards, control the clock, and squeeze the air out of a game. We rarely win when we can’t do this to a game. Our coaches are not creative at all.
If we were NE or NO and had a Brees or Brady with SP or BB coaching Zeke would not hold as much value.
In this day and age we see everyone throw out misleading and/or useless stats to support their point of view to include how the sky isn’t blue but per the common sense and eyeball tests, Zeke is one of the best players in football at ANY position and because of how our team is structured and coached, he’s vital. That said, I think this holdout with two years left is total garbage and I’m preparing myself for for an 8-8 or 6-10 season instead of contending if Zeke and Jerry don’t budge.
 

Starforever

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CowboysZone DIEHARD Fan
So, Zeke's stats suck, and we shouldn't pay him, compared to the other elite RB's in the NFL. No matter what our eyes tell us.

Using Daks stats vs. Wentz and others, does not matter because of, how they look on the field and their potential. So he should not be paid.

I see now...
 

buybuydandavis

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True, and he got caught from behind much more often last year than his rookie year. In 2016 if he saw day light he was going to the house.

He seemed slower last year to me. Not the same burst. Seems early for him to be running down, but Alfred Morris was noticeably run down by his 3rd year. He was a big deal once. Didn't last long. People remember the guys who last longer, forget the guys who poop out after 2-3 years.

How we ground Felix into the dirt was an atrocity.
 
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starfan1

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Honestly I don’t GAF if Jerry pays Dak what he’s asking . He’s not worth it but it isn’t my money

I don’t GAF if he pays zeke. He’s not worth it but it isn’t my money

Add cooper and everyone else included on that list . I root for the brand much more than the player and the time is now

My uncertainty lies with coaching staff moreso than any other place
 

aria

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RB coach Gary Brown said it in the All or Nothing documentary at one point that “Zeke gets dirty yards no one else can. There’s nothing there and Zeke will still pop out four yards”.
At least that’s as close to the exact words as I can remember.
Hmmmm...I wonder if he happened to watch the NO game (3.3 ypc) or Ten (3.6 ypc) or Wash (2.2 ypc) or Houston (2.7 ypc).

Those are pretty pathetic numbers for being “elite”. Let’s not forget about his stellar performance against the Broncos in 2017 with a total of 8 yards. Or against Seattle last year where he stepped out of bounds with no one within 10 yards of him on what would have most likely been a TD or the fumble in that same game that very well cost us the W.
 

Hadenough

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You’ve heard me say it a million times that I do not want to pay a RB. I do not believe in it. It is the least important position on offense. Elite production can be found more readily later in the draft. Yeah I said it. And i've said it before. I also know that the Cowboys are going to keep Zeke. This isn't about that.

A funny thing happens when I say I would not pay a RB. They point to Emmitt and other big time RBs that have led their teams to the promised land. They say they agree with me in theory but that I need to be more nuanced. I need to make exceptions for truly transcendent talents. So is Zeke that….a transcendent talent?

That's the question right?

I've always assumed he would be awesome. When we drafted him i'd assumed he would be awesome. As he's racked up awards I've assumed he was awesome. I was wrong. Let's investigate.


The counting stats speak for themselves...

Rushing yards:

2016: 1,631 || League Rank: #1; League Rank Per Game: #1

2017: 983 || League Rank: #10; League Rank Per Game: #1

2018: 1,434 || League Rank: #1; League Rank Per Game: #1


His receiving work has shown steady improvement

Receptions Per Game:

2016: 2.13

2017: 2.6

2018: 5.13


Receiving Yards Per Game:

2016: 24.2

2017: 26.9

2018: 37.8


The awards speak for themselves.

2x Pro Bowl (2016, 2018)

First-Team All Pro (2016)

Second-Team All Pro (2018)

PFWA All-Rookie Team (2016)

FedEx Ground Player of the Year (2016)


If you stop the analysis here Zeke is unarguably the most accomplished RB league wide since he has put on The Star. You could at least squint and make the argument that you pay transcendence.

However, we are better than our fathers and grandfathers. We now know that efficiency is more important than volume in everything from financial analysis, to online marketing and yes also to professional football. So how efficient is Zeke relative to his peers?

Well here we can look to PFF’s RB statistics. Now I don’t like PFF when they try to evaluate players but they can count things like a missed tackle or a fumble. And they do!
Source: https://www.pff.com/news/pro-explaining-dallas-cowboys-rb-ezekiel-elliotts-2018-pff-grade


Forced missed tackles per game among RBs

2016: 31st

2017: 40th

2018: 35th

*Last year Zeke was 1st in total yards after contact but 18th in yards after contact per carry.


Breakaway Percentage among Rbs (percentage of yards a RB gains on runs of more than 15 yards)

2018: 15th


Fumbles among RBs

2018: 1st


Yards per route run among RBs:

2016: 24th

2017: Did not qualify due to suspension

2018: 19th


Put all together and PFF’s Eric Eager found Zeke’s production in 2018 was worth just 0.2 wins above a replacement player. Zero. Point. Two. For the laymen out there...that is not a lot. For reference Mahomes who led the league in the metric checked in at 7.49. That is 37.45 times higher than Zeke. If Zeke is worth 15MM a year what do should the Chiefs pay Patrick?

Look this is not good. But what many have told me is that the Cowboys offensive line combined with Zeke is where his true value lies. Instead of having just a good running game with our line we have a great running game with Zeke. A truly overbearing force they say! So surely the results of Zeke and the line together is what is most important and we can point to that dominance right? The problem? We know rushing efficiency is not correlated with winning. We know passing efficiency is correlated with winning. Putting this aside we could argue that at the very least situational running is important right (think red zone work, short yardage situations to extend drives and running out the clock in the 4th quarter)? That is where Zeke can point to his value?

Thankfully FiveThirtyEight ran the numbers.
Source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ezekiel-elliott-is-not-worth-the-money-he-wants/

Because winning matters, let’s start with closing out games.

If we look at all runs in the 4th quarter when the Cowboys were ahead we can look at how each run increased or decreased our win probability.


Win Probability Added in the 4th:

2018: Cowboys ranked 7th overall (Hat tip to Dak)

2018: Zeke ranked 22nd

Last 3 years: Zeke lead in attempts but ranked 26th in win probability added.





Field goals in the red zone get teams beat. Surely Zeke shined in the red zone?


Red zone runs by expected points added:

2018: Cowboys ranked 10th overall

2018: Zeke ranked 16th in EPA and 28th in success rate

Last 3 years: Zeke ranked 11th in EPA and 10th in success rate


eikpj.png



Staying on the field and wearing opposing defenses down is something we have preached since Zeke was drafted. Hopefully this year we don’t fear sending out our defense as much as we have in our recent past. How much has Zeke helped our defense by extending drives on the ground?


Short yardage runs in open field by expected points added:

2018: Cowboys ranked 4th overall

2018: Zeke’s EPA ranked 10th, his success rate of 67% was good for 11th


c40pf.jpg



Well Zeke helps Dak right? And QB is the most important position in all of sports right? Zeke draws extra defenders into the box and makes our play action more effective right?



So yes QBs do well when they run play-action. No, we don't need an efficient RB/game to achieve that enhancement.

Look, as I have long acknowledged and accepted and stated as much in this post….The Cowboys are very likely to pay Zeke, make him fabulously wealthy and set some benchmarks other RBs look to hurdle (cough) in coming years. So let’s talk about salary cap efficiency since we’re here

“According to data from Overthecap, the share of average team salary allocated to all rostered running backs has fallen from 6.8 percent of spending in 2013 to 4.5 percent in 2019. Zeke’s salary alone in his optioned fifth year will represent 4.5 percent of the Cowboy’s salary cap. If Zeke signs an extension before the 2020 season, his cap hit combined with the rest of Dallas’s spend at the running back position will likely be double the league average.”

So if Zeke is going to lead to the Cowboys spending roughly double what the league will then we should expect Zeke to be worth double what a replacement level back is worth, right? Well you remember his 2018 wins above replacement number? Zero. Point. Two.

So is Zeke a transcendent talent? What exactly other than volume and counting stats would make you think he was?

And before you answer take a look at this:



^^^

This is a good take. Speciilty backs who post big efficiency numbers on minuscule volume are likely not better than Zeke. If they were they'd get more volume! However, Zeke likely isn't appreciably better than a lot of RBs who are in committees and share the load. He's just higher paid, more famous and in a better offense.

As we stand and breath nothing but the Cowboys stuffing Zeke with volume and inflating his counting stats points to Zeke being a transcendent talent. In fact you could say he’s been quite average. And this is depressing. When not wanting to pay Zeke I at least knew he was tremendous. I knew he was a special talent. At least we were paying a Hall of Famer! An objective look at his 3 years career to date presents a very different picture. Cognitive dissonance will cause many to dismiss this post. That's fine.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But no one is entitled to their own facts.

Lots of interesting numbers here. I wonder if PFF takes into account that the goal of every defense in the league is to not let Zeke beat them. Just my opinion but Zeke would be considerably more effective in an offense where defenses have to game plan to stop the QB from beating them with his arm.
 

Sydla

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So, Zeke's stats suck, and we shouldn't pay him, compared to the other elite RB's in the NFL. No matter what our eyes tell us.

Using Daks stats vs. Wentz and others, does not matter because of, how they look on the field and their potential. So he should not be paid.

I see now...

This was kind of a whiff
 

DandyDon52

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Hmmmm...I wonder if he happened to watch the NO game (3.3 ypc) or Ten (3.6 ypc) or Wash (2.2 ypc) or Houston (2.7 ypc).

Those are pretty pathetic numbers for being “elite”. Let’s not forget about his stellar performance against the Broncos in 2017 with a total of 8 yards. Or against Seattle last year where he stepped out of bounds with no one within 10 yards of him on what would have most likely been a TD or the fumble in that same game that very well cost us the W.
lol feed me fans done wiped that from their minds! or they blame dak
A lot of fans have a "bromance" going with EE so he is great and does no wrong and if when he isnt good, it is someone else's fault.

Much like the way some parents view their children.
 

CWR

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He seemed slower last year to me. Not the same burst. Seems early for him to be running down, but Alfred Morris was noticeably run down by his 3rd year. He was a big deal once. Didn't last long. People remember the guys who last longer, forget the guys who poop out after 2-3 years.

How we ground Felix into the dirt was an atrocity.

MB3 was an animal but due to his brutal style he didn't last long. Gawd dog, his highlights are a joy.
 

aria

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lol feed me fans done wiped that from their minds! or they blame dak
A lot of fans have a "bromance" going with EE so he is great and does no wrong and if when he isnt good, it is someone else's fault.

Much like the way some parents view their children.
It’s pretty hilarious, and sad, to see how hypocritical some fans are. If a less talented player did half the stuff Zeke did they would talk about cutting him, how he’s a punk, etc but due to his talent they don’t want to admit what a headache, liability and an entitled chump he really is.

They like to minimize every negative thing he does on and off the field. If he has a bad game it was the O lines fault, if he knocks over a security guard it was TMZ’s fault for taping him, now he’s basically holding the team hostage after 3 years in the league and people are still defending him.

I really don’t think there’s anything he could do that would cause some of his fan boys to ever say anything bad about him or admit that something was his fault. If he played for another team he would be considered one of the biggest pieces of excrement in the league but as long as he has a Star on his helmet some fans will always put him on a pedestal and claim he can do no wrong.
 

aikemirv

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If Zekes receiving numbers dip because Wittens back in the fold, that pretty much solidifies how stupid these coaches are. Not that that hasn't been made apparent already.

I don't think that is a result of coaching. I think that is checkdowns. Witten retiring took Daks favorite checkdown target away and it became Zeke.

What was their APC again? Even if it was a coaching decision, I don't know why you would complain given the numbers below.

Witten 8.9 -2017
Zeke 7.4 -2018
 

mattjames2010

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So, Zeke's stats suck, and we shouldn't pay him, compared to the other elite RB's in the NFL. No matter what our eyes tell us.

Using Daks stats vs. Wentz and others, does not matter because of, how they look on the field and their potential. So he should not be paid.

I see now...

Dak is middling in both stats and with the eye test

Zeke is overrated here with his stats and people ignore the flaws of his game with the eye test
 

aikemirv

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Run percentage against a stacked box:
2016: 12th
2017: 18th
2018: 20th

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/rushing#yards


Your own opinion? Yes. Your own facts? No.




What you should take away from this is that we gave Zeke the ball a lot and he wasn't efficient. So maybe we don't need to pay double what the league is paying RBs?

You want Zeke getting more opportunities if you're paying him more than you are others. That part of the equation makes sense. You would also expect him to do more with it....because you are paying him more than you are others. Got to have it both ways.

Stats of this sort may mean something but without sitting down with the DC's and finding out how they gameplan for the Cowboys I will not draw a conclusion from them.

It is not as simple as how many men are in the box.
 

blueblood70

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How elite was he in TD's last year for a RB? Not very. Couldn't even pick up 4th and 1 or 3rd and short. He was sooo bad that Dak had to start doing it for him.
Like ES failed at twice in game we all remember very well, come on do better then that, hes 2nd in his 3 years at rushing TDs..

right first in most everything 2nd in tds last I checked scoring was down all across this piss poor offensive scheme, didnt the giants score more? ..non aggressive settle for FGs and not creative on any down.. get something better ZEKE TROLL ..

you sir are a Hypocrite ripping Dak Trolls but you troll zeke just as hard..give me break at least Zeke leads his postion, Dak well he has a lot of work to go to crack top 10:lmao2: so hard that climb from 12th best qb to top10 zeke well hes looking down waiting on dak to catch up..i guess we can trade for another #1 draft pick maybe bring in a star TE to HELP DAK more..but 34mil well he wont get help but he does need more for sure..

wait for it, we going to blame coaches and scheme for Daks short coming ,arent we? :popcorn:
 
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