How would you feel about Henry Ruggs at 17?

[CATCH17]

If it was a guarantee they would get him at 17 or trade up to get him I would let cooper walk. I would feel comfortable with Gallup, riggs, Cobb, Devin Smith and another rookie later in the draft. With an offense that gets players open by design instead of having the try to win every route would make all the difference in the world.

I just don't feel good about signing Dak longterm without knowing Cooper and his route running skills will be here.

If they let Coop walk then keep Dak on a franchise tag.

 

[THEHEREAFTER]

I acutally think Ruggs may be just as good as Jeudy depending on role/system. I definitely like the Tyreke Hill comparison. Gotta have the right system and creative offensive mind to justify his skillset at #17.

 

[LatinMind]

I just don't feel good about signing Dak longterm without knowing Cooper and his route running skills will be here.

If they let Coop walk then keep Dak on a franchise tag.

Dak was handicapped by incompetent coaching and playcalling. I really like Cooper I just dont like any Wr making as much as he's going to. I'd rather have gallup with 2 or 3 other Cobb types. The fact that he disappears on road games is a factor.

You wouldn't take say gallup, riggs or reagr, cobb Devin smith, and quite possibly dez all on your cap for less then it would be to pay cooper?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Cooper, Gallup and Cobb totaled 3,134 yards receiving last year. There's only so many throws available. Wide receiver is in good shape with those, and that's not including Jarwin, Elliot and whoever gets Witten's throws (or Witten's if he stays for another year).

Hill, Watkins, Kelce and Hardman totaled 2,889 yards, and the Chiefs won the SB!

Dallas doesn't need more receivers in the first round. Let's not turn into the Lions with continual loading up at receiver, how'd that work out for Detroit?

You don't always draft for need, but you can't ignore needs either. Judge the team overall and pick the best player available in conjunction with need, try to get a balance of offense and defense...

 

[Xavier187]

If Ruggs is there and we cant move back take him.
But Reagor in the 3rd would be just as good

 

[cnuball21]

Cooper, Gallup and Cobb totaled 3,134 yards receiving last year. There's only so many throws available. Wide receiver is in good shape with those, and that's not including Jarwin, Elliot and whoever gets Witten's throws (or Witten's if he stays for another year).

Hill, Watkins, Kelce and Hardman totaled 2,889 yards, and the Chiefs won the SB!

Dallas doesn't need more receivers in the first round. Let's not turn into the Lions with continual loading up at receiver, how'd that work out for Detroit?

You don't always draft for need, but you can't ignore needs either. Judge the team overall and pick the best player available in conjunction with need, try to get a balance of offense and defense...

well said...drop the mic

 

[Jake0]

Cooper, Gallup and Cobb totaled 3,134 yards receiving last year. There's only so many throws available. Wide receiver is in good shape with those, and that's not including Jarwin, Elliot and whoever gets Witten's throws (or Witten's if he stays for another year).

Hill, Watkins, Kelce and Hardman totaled 2,889 yards, and the Chiefs won the SB!

Dallas doesn't need more receivers in the first round. Let's not turn into the Lions with continual loading up at receiver, how'd that work out for Detroit?

You don't always draft for need, but you can't ignore needs either. Judge the team overall and pick the best player available in conjunction with need, try to get a balance of offense and defense...

You need a field stretcher. Amari is pretty fast, but there's still a big difference between him and tyreek/will fuller/other 4.2-low 4.3 guys. Amari having a blazer on the other side would help his game a lot and Zeke would benefit too. It's not just about checking the final stats.

There have been a number of times where 3 receivers have totaled over 1000 yards a piece on historic offenses. You can't just bring up a Chiefs team that was rattled with injuries. However, if you wanted to target the chiefs specifically, they massively overdrafted Mecole Hardman in the 2nd relative to his expected draft position even when they already had Tyreek and won the superbowl the next year! Can't ever have too much speed on a team! He was a huge threat on STs too.

Using a 1st rounder on a speed receiver that doesn't bring much more than speed isn't good, but if it's a complete WR that can do it all, you take the guy because he is definitely worth a 1st round pick and you plan your roster in the future around that. There's 5 years of control. The high quality speed receivers rarely drop past the 2nd round, it's way too valuable of an asset right now.

 

[Future]

If Ruggs is there and we cant move back take him.
But Reagor in the 3rd would be just as good

0 chance Reagor is there in the 3rd. I really doubt he's there in the 2nd.

 

[beware_d-ware]

0 chance Reagor is there in the 3rd. I really doubt he's there in the 2nd.

Reagor's never been a household name and isn't a big name in draftnik circles right now, but I think people are going to see him run sub-4.4 at the Combine and go "who?"

A 1st round selection isn't out of the cards, even in a loaded receiver class.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

You need a field stretcher. Amari is pretty fast, but there's still a big difference between him and tyreek/will fuller/other 4.2-low 4.3 guys. Amari having a blazer on the other side would help his game a lot and Zeke would benefit too. It's not just about checking the final stats.

There have been a number of times where 3 receivers have totaled over 1000 yards a piece on historic offenses. You can't just bring up a Chiefs team that was rattled with injuries. However, if you wanted to target the chiefs specifically, they massively overdrafted Mecole Hardman in the 2nd relative to his expected draft position even when they already had Tyreek and won the superbowl the next year! Can't ever have too much speed on a team! He was a huge threat on STs too.

Using a 1st rounder on a speed receiver that doesn't bring much more than speed isn't good, but if it's a complete WR that can do it all, you take the guy because he is definitely worth a 1st round pick and you plan your roster in the future around that. There's 5 years of control. The high quality speed receivers rarely drop past the 2nd round, it's way too valuable of an asset right now.

Speed receivers who can make great catches are nice.

But this isn't the 1960's, with teams needed the blazing fast receiver who could out run defensive backs before the defensive back could grab, hit and otherwise disrupt the receiver's pattern. Who are the top receiver of all time, yard-wise? Jerry Rice, not a speedster. Was Michael Irvin? No. Who was instrumental in getting the Chiefs to a SB win? Kelce, actually, obviously a tight end isn't the fastest receiver on the team, though he's fast for a tight end.

If a receiver is extremely fast, the dbs just back off a bit, it's not like cornerbacks in the NFL run 4.8s.

Just saying it's not a necessity to have the 4.3 guy, if you can get that guy, and he's great at catching the ball, then do it, but to say you can't win SBs with 4.45 guys just isn't true....

 

[cnuball21]

You need a field stretcher. Amari is pretty fast, but there's still a big difference between him and tyreek/will fuller/other 4.2-low 4.3 guys. Amari having a blazer on the other side would help his game a lot and Zeke would benefit too. It's not just about checking the final stats.

There have been a number of times where 3 receivers have totaled over 1000 yards a piece on historic offenses. You can't just bring up a Chiefs team that was rattled with injuries. However, if you wanted to target the chiefs specifically, they massively overdrafted Mecole Hardman in the 2nd relative to his expected draft position even when they already had Tyreek and won the superbowl the next year! Can't ever have too much speed on a team! He was a huge threat on STs too.

Using a 1st rounder on a speed receiver that doesn't bring much more than speed isn't good, but if it's a complete WR that can do it all, you take the guy because he is definitely worth a 1st round pick and you plan your roster in the future around that. There's 5 years of control. The high quality speed receivers rarely drop past the 2nd round, it's way too valuable of an asset right now.

You’re last paragraph sums it up pretty well...as the challenge is most speed WRs can’t do it all and aren’t legit #1s which is why I want no part of them in the 1st.

If WR was a dire need, then yea, I’d jump on guys like Reagor and Ruggs at the bottom of the 1st but if we re-sign Coop we have one of the best 1-2 punches at WR in football. Gallup hasn’t even reached his potential yet.

 

[Doomsday101]

Ruggs was timed at a 4.25 at Bama and big time playmaker. I don't see this as a big area of need for Dallas but you can't argue the talent of this kid. Would not be upset adding playmakers

 

[Future]

Speed receivers who can make great catches are nice.

But this isn't the 1960's, with teams needed the blazing fast receiver who could out run defensive backs before the defensive back could grab, hit and otherwise disrupt the receiver's pattern. Who are the top receiver of all time, yard-wise? Jerry Rice, not a speedster. Was Michael Irvin? No. Who was instrumental in getting the Chiefs to a SB win? Kelce, actually, obviously a tight end isn't the fastest receiver on the team, though he's fast for a tight end.

If a receiver is extremely fast, the dbs just back off a bit, it's not like cornerbacks in the NFL run 4.8s.

Just saying it's not a necessity to have the 4.3 guy, if you can get that guy, and he's great at catching the ball, then do it, but to say you can't win SBs with 4.45 guys just isn't true....

Hill is KCs #1 and it is not close. Hardman is just as important to them as Kelce.

The entire premise of KC's offense is speed. And even if all you do is force DBs to back off, it opens a lot of other things up underneath and in the middle of the field. That balance is why Kelce is so effective.

 

[Jake0]

Speed receivers who can make great catches are nice.

But this isn't the 1960's, with teams needed the blazing fast receiver who could out run defensive backs before the defensive back could grab, hit and otherwise disrupt the receiver's pattern. Who are the top receiver of all time, yard-wise? Jerry Rice, not a speedster. Was Michael Irvin? No. Who was instrumental in getting the Chiefs to a SB win? Kelce, actually, obviously a tight end isn't the fastest receiver on the team, though he's fast for a tight end.

If a receiver is extremely fast, the dbs just back off a bit, it's not like cornerbacks in the NFL run 4.8s.

Just saying it's not a necessity to have the 4.3 guy, if you can get that guy, and he's great at catching the ball, then do it, but to say you can't win SBs with 4.45 guys just isn't true....

If DBs and safeties back off a bit, what do you think that does for their timing when Zeke hits the open field? How about the possession receivers that are operating underneath?

 

[CATCH17]

Ruggs was timed at a 4.25 at Bama and big time playmaker. I don't see this as a big area of need for Dallas but you can't argue the talent of this kid. Would not be upset adding playmakers

Yeah he’s a best player available scenario guy.

I’m not taking McKinney at 17..

I want impact players with my first pick.. If you want to go safe and solid then do it in rounds 2-7 all you like.

In the first round I want a Quarterback, guys that help the quarterback, or players that go get the quarterback.

Delpit or McKinney in a trade down I’m more ok with.. I just see McKinney as a 2nd round guy.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yeah he’s a best player available scenario guy.

I’m not taking McKinney at 17..

I want impact players with my first pick.. If you want to go safe and solid then do it in rounds 2-7 all you like.

In the first round I want a Quarterback, guys that help the quarterback, or players that go get the quarterback.

Delpit or McKinney in a trade down I’m more ok with.. I just see McKinney as a 2nd round guy.

Based on a lot of draft publications some would agree with your assessment while others have Delpit and McKinney in the same area of the draft. I admit the one guy I would really love to have and would be willing to move up to get him should he make it past 10 is Derrick Brown. I really like this guy and feel he would make a big impact on this defense. Just my 2 cents

 

[LACowboysFan1]

If DBs and safeties back off a bit, what do you think that does for their timing when Zeke hits the open field? How about the possession receivers that are operating underneath?

A receiver that runs a 4.3 instead of say, a 4.45, is mainly going to make a significant impact when he gets a clear reception so that he can outrun the DBs, but he first has to get open, and how often does a speedy receiver just run a simple post or fly pattern? That kind of pattern would open up the field somewhat for a tight end, possession receiver or running back, but it just isn't used that often, defenses are more complex than that, it's not just a case of like a Bob Hayes just lining up and beating the DB on pure speed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a 4.3 receiver on the team (if he can catch well), it's just that the advantage of that guy is most useable when the rest of the team is good, and if the Cowboys spend the no. 17 pick on such a player, not going to do much good if Dak is getting buried under a rush because the o-line is porous, or there's no tight end, slot receiver to make the defense pay attention to somebody other than your speed guy, or if the defense lets other teams run all over you and force you to have to score 35 pts or more every game.

It's about balance, and besides, Amari ran a 4.42 at the combine just a few years ago, most of the fastest receivers run in the mid 4.3s, that's only about .07 seconds faster, it's not like the db has to back way off, the couple of feet or so isn't much advantage.

Looking at it another way, the fastest 40 yard guys at the combine include players such as Tyrone Calico, J.J. Nelson, Jacoby Ford and Jerome Mathis. How many of those have turned into top NFL receivers. Nelson had 186 receptions in 4 years then was out of the league, for example. Yet he ran in the 4.2s! If speed is so valuable, why'd he not do much? It's still a team sport, have to have the rest of the team up to snuff to use that, and the Cowboys have too many areas that aren't.

Have to look at more than pure speed for your receiving corps...

 

[cnuball21]

A receiver that runs a 4.3 instead of say, a 4.45, is mainly going to make a significant impact when he gets a clear reception so that he can outrun the DBs, but he first has to get open, and how often does a speedy receiver just run a simple post or fly pattern? That kind of pattern would open up the field somewhat for a tight end, possession receiver or running back, but it just isn't used that often, defenses are more complex than that, it's not just a case of like a Bob Hayes just lining up and beating the DB on pure speed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a 4.3 receiver on the team (if he can catch well), it's just that the advantage of that guy is most useable when the rest of the team is good, and if the Cowboys spend the no. 17 pick on such a player, not going to do much good if Dak is getting buried under a rush because the o-line is porous, or there's no tight end, slot receiver to make the defense pay attention to somebody other than your speed guy, or if the defense lets other teams run all over you and force you to have to score 35 pts or more every game.

It's about balance, and besides, Amari ran a 4.42 at the combine just a few years ago, most of the fastest receivers run in the mid 4.3s, that's only about .07 seconds faster, it's not like the db has to back way off, the couple of feet or so isn't much advantage.

Looking at it another way, the fastest 40 yard guys at the combine include players such as Tyrone Calico, J.J. Nelson, Jacoby Ford and Jerome Mathis. How many of those have turned into top NFL receivers. Nelson had 186 receptions in 4 years then was out of the league, for example. Yet he ran in the 4.2s! If speed is so valuable, why'd he not do much? It's still a team sport, have to have the rest of the team up to snuff to use that, and the Cowboys have too many areas that aren't.

Have to look at more than pure speed for your receiving corps.

This...and it’s not just WR everyone loses there minds when players run fast at the combine.




I like Ruggs. I think he’s more than just a speed WR and can be a solid pro but when you’re in the top 20, even 1st round, I’m looking for the talent / athleticism to match the production. I understand Bama had other great talents to throw to, but 2 seasons in a row under 800 yards and 60 catches

This...and it’s not just WR everyone loses there minds when players run fast at the combine.

I like Ruggs. I think he’s more than just a speed WR and can be a solid pro but when you’re in the top 20, even 1st round, I’m looking for the talent / athleticism to match the production. I understand Bama had other great talents to throw to, but 2 seasons in a row under 800 yards and 60 catches.

 

[cnuball21]

This...and it’s not just WR everyone loses there minds when players run fast at the combine.

I like Ruggs. I think he’s more than just a speed WR and can be a solid pro but when you’re in the top 20, even 1st round, I’m looking for the talent / athleticism to match the production. I understand Bama had other great talents to throw to, but 2 seasons in a row under 800 yards and 60 catches.

 

[Jake0]

A receiver that runs a 4.3 instead of say, a 4.45, is mainly going to make a significant impact when he gets a clear reception so that he can outrun the DBs, but he first has to get open, and how often does a speedy receiver just run a simple post or fly pattern? That kind of pattern would open up the field somewhat for a tight end, possession receiver or running back, but it just isn't used that often, defenses are more complex than that, it's not just a case of like a Bob Hayes just lining up and beating the DB on pure speed.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a 4.3 receiver on the team (if he can catch well), it's just that the advantage of that guy is most useable when the rest of the team is good, and if the Cowboys spend the no. 17 pick on such a player, not going to do much good if Dak is getting buried under a rush because the o-line is porous, or there's no tight end, slot receiver to make the defense pay attention to somebody other than your speed guy, or if the defense lets other teams run all over you and force you to have to score 35 pts or more every game.

It's about balance, and besides, Amari ran a 4.42 at the combine just a few years ago, most of the fastest receivers run in the mid 4.3s, that's only about .07 seconds faster, it's not like the db has to back way off, the couple of feet or so isn't much advantage.

Looking at it another way, the fastest 40 yard guys at the combine include players such as Tyrone Calico, J.J. Nelson, Jacoby Ford and Jerome Mathis. How many of those have turned into top NFL receivers. Nelson had 186 receptions in 4 years then was out of the league, for example. Yet he ran in the 4.2s! If speed is so valuable, why'd he not do much? It's still a team sport, have to have the rest of the team up to snuff to use that, and the Cowboys have too many areas that aren't.

Have to look at more than pure speed for your receiving corps...

Don't think you're understanding what is being said. One of the 1st things I said was a pure speed receiver with no other receiving ability is not worth a 1st rounder. The quality speed receivers with actual skill do not drop past the 2nd round. Speed receivers aren't necessarily there to put up massive numbers. They just need to be good enough to prove they're legit threats on the field and then the impact will come in pre-snap. Just being able to run fast doesn't make you a good receiver, that is obvious. Teams won't fear a terrible speed receiver that can't catch a deep ball. How many DBs **** their pants when Randy Moss (4.25 guy btw) was going deep on em? How many DCoords see they're facing Moss and gameplan pre-snap around not getting destroyed by a Moss deep ball?

Yes it is about balance. Michael Irvin put up the numbers as the primary target, but having a speed guy on the opposite side helped open the field up for him to do work. Amari (or Gallup) can benefit similar to how Irvin did. Zeke as well.

I don't think you understand the scope of the speed if you're making random claims like "that's only about .07 seconds faster". It's more like an extra yard of separation on a Go route. That is a big deal.

You can't just plug in a trash receiver with speed into the roster. They barely get any playtime because there's no trust. Cowboys have been trying to plug this role in with UDFAs and it is an absolute waste of time.

It's about building a team that compliments each other. 1st rounder should lean more towards BPA than it does need. There's a decent chance that BPA at 17 or in a trade down scenario will be a speed WR. Dak has shown an improved deep ball to make use of the skillset as well.


Main Argument is ---> Having 1 Michael Irvin and 1 quality speed receiver on the opposite side is better than having 2 Michael Irvins. (Or 2 Dez Bryants)