I am disappointed in Zone posters

peplaw06

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Jaxonsdaddd;1557861 said:
I cant believe there are people out there saying that, "we dont know yet, lets let it play out".

I will go on record right now and say if I get a search warrant on my house next week and find 60 dogs and 30 burried carcasas then you all can call me a dog fighter...

Lookit... there are a couple of things that you should know.

1) I think Vick is guilty. That is my personal opinion.

2) However, when it comes to the question of "should he be suspended right now?", the answer is easy. My personal opinion means next to nothing. I was not a part of the investigation, nor am I a prosecutor in the case, nor am I Vick's defense attorney (no matter how much you guys want to think so).

I don't know all the facts. I don't know if anyone knows all the facts, save maybe the defendants. Therefore, I don't pretend to know that I know how this case will turn out.

Me personally, if I don't know all the facts, I am not going to clamor for the NFL or the Falcons to make a decision based on what little I do know. But hell, I guess that's just me.

3) Because in my mind, I think he is guilty, if when the trial is over he is ultimately found guilty, I will be able to say "I was right," just like fort, just like Jaxonsdadddd, just like thehoofbite, just like dbair. If he winds up being found not guilty, I will be wrong. But my being wrong won't cost him anything.
 

Kilyin

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The feds wouldn't be involved if there wasn't a strong case with plenty of evidence. If I were a betting man, I'd bank on a conviction.
 

Seven

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fortdick;1557787 said:
I was checking out Extemeskins to see how they were taking the Vick news over there.

Their poll

81% say he should be suspend

Our poll

55% say he should be suspended.

Now, does that mean that Skins fans are more compassionate towards animals? Or that we just have more persuasive Vick defenders?

I wanna kow what in the hell you're doing at............that place. Talk about disappointment. :p:
 

CowboyWay

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dbair1967;1557802 said:
normally true...but not in this case

sad but true...ES showing more sense than the majority of people here

David


I couldn't disagree more, and I think this is the difference between ES posters and us. We're smarter. Here's why........

Vick deserves his day in court, nobody condones what he did, but this is america, like it or not, and if it were you, you'd like it, he deserves his day in court. Its an right you have as a citizen, and you should be damn happy you have it.

If vick is found guilty, he will pay, and pay dearly.

No need to rush to judgement here.

If a woman accuses you of rape, should you be suspended from your job before you go to court? How bout the Duke Lacrosse team, they had everything taken from them from the getgo, how'd that turn out? INNOCENT, and it wasn't even close.

Like it or not, VIck deserves his day in court.

I personally think he's a guilty scumbag, but I'm not at the point where I think he doesn 't deserve a free trial yet, and if I ever do, someone buy me a plane ticket to Cuba where the rest of the commies are.
 

Green28

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kobe2jail;1557877 said:
I couldn't disagree more, and I think this is the difference between ES posters and us. We're smarter. Here's why........

Vick deserves his day in court, nobody condones what he did, but this is america, like it or not, and if it were you, you'd like it, he deserves his day in court. Its an right you have as a citizen, and you should be damn happy you have it.

If vick is found guilty, he will pay, and pay dearly.

No need to rush to judgement here.

If a woman accuses you of rape, should you be suspended from your job before you go to court? How bout the Duke Lacrosse team, they had everything taken from them from the getgo, how'd that turn out? INNOCENT, and it wasn't even close.

Like it or not, VIck deserves his day in court.

I personally think he's a guilty scumbag, but I'm not at the point where I think he doesn 't deserve a free trial yet, and if I ever do, someone buy me a plane ticket to Cuba where the rest of the commies are.

What's your stance on PacMan?
 
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ABQCOWBOY;1557794 said:
Means 70% are from Virginia and they probably feel shamed about the whole thing. He is a local.

I'm from Virginia, there will always be a divide when it comes to Michael Vick, stemming back before any of this mess came about... I'm a Vick fan because I've known him since way back.
 

peplaw06

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fortdick;1557863 said:
I could care less about being right or wrong. I was wrong on the O.J. trial. But I was glad on that because of the threats of riots if he was convicted.
Then please tell me what you have invested in this case? What is the incentive for you to prejudge him?



That is the beauty of it. I will never be indicted. I don;t do anything wrong. I don't even speed in my car. I don't drink, so no drunk driving in my future. I both respect and fear the law. Vick does neither.
Well then all the easier for you to have an unreasonable point of view.... and a very immature one at that.

I seem to remember when I was in high school, some representative from MADD coming to school and giving a speech about drunk driving. They said the reason so many young people get killed and/or kill other people, even though they hear about people getting killed drunk driving, is because they think, "That will never happen to me." Something about youth and new found freedom makes teenagers feel infallible. You think you're infallible?

Remember, you can indict a ham sandwich. It could be something as little as a 4 year old telling someone you touched them in a bad spot. Bang, you're indicted... You want to be prejudged? Sometimes that hit to your reputation can never be regained.

Oh bullocks! You know the more you win the more you can charge. If you win cases, you get to charge more money. If you were working in some nonprofit thing, then I would applaud your altruism, but the fact is, lawyers don;t practice law for the good feeling it gives them.

Does James Sokolove get paid up front, or does he takes cases on a contingency? Just wondering what you say to all that?
Honestly I can charge whatever I want. I could charge outrageous retainers upfront if I wanted to. Problem is, with me being a newbie, I would never get any clients. Generally, the more experience you get, the more you can charge and actually get clients. Your reputation and experience are the biggest things that determine the market for your services.

Sometimes you gain a positive reputation by winning cases, sure. Sometimes it's by being an honest person and treating clients right. They don't post the winning percentage of attorneys in the paper.

And yes, some lawyers practice solely for money. Some practice because it does give them a good feeling. I finalized an adoption the other day, that's a pretty good feeling, no matter how "soulless" you are.

I'm not surprised you're skeptical. Cops hate lawyers. How's that generality for you?

As far as contingency fees are concerned, those are typically only set up in personal injury cases. Personal injury attorneys can do that because they are basically guaranteed a settlement from someone. But you'll never find an attorney who takes a case on a contingency fee without knowing the facts. they hear the facts, then determine whether it's worth their time to try to get a settlement, then they take a cut. But that cut is predetermined. The percentage of the attorney's take doesn't go up as the settlement amount goes up.

Ever had a client so guilty that you thought he should be in jail for the rest of his life? If so, what advice did you give him? Plea for a reduced sentence? I bet you fought tooth and nail, busting that poor prosecutor's butt, trying to get the scumbag out of prison in half the time he deserved.
No I haven't. I've had clients who I thought should go to jail, and I told him he was looking at jail time. Again, I didn't say, "you should go to jail." I don't give my opinions like that. And of course if I run into a guy like that, I'm going to fight for less time. That's my job. My personal opinion means little.

And that poor prosecutor that went to law school and didn't finish in the upper part of his class and get a job offer from a private firm.
LOL @ poor prosecutors. There are a lot of good prosecutors who will bust your butt just the same. There are also a lot of lazy prosecutors who could get into private practice, but don't for whatever reason, but one big reason is that they don't want to work past 5:00 or on weekends. Another one is they get a good pension plan from the state/county/government.

I didn't finish in the upper part of my class, nor did I get an immediate offer from a private law firm. but I am not opposed to busting my butt, working past 5:00 every day, or on weekends. I hope my bosses have picked up on that.

It is all about winning and losing.
Already addressed... but what is your job about?
 

03EBZ06

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ThreeSportStar80;1557882 said:
I'm a Vick fan because I've known him since way back.
Since you are a Vick's fan, what is your take on his situation? Are you still Vick's fan even with this indictment?
 

COWBOYSNUM1

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I don't like Vick at all. I think he is the most overrated player in the NFL. Still, I would like to wait until he has his day in court before he is suspended.

But if (when) he is found guilty, I hope he is suspended for life.
 
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03EBZ06;1557885 said:
Since you are a Vick's fan, what is your take on his situation? Are you still Vick's fan even with this indictment?

I'm a dog lover so I have mixed emotions about it but he's also an associate of mine so... I have no real comment on it.
 

BrassCowboy

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fortdick;1557863 said:
That is the beauty of it. I will never be indicted. I don;t do anything wrong. I don't even speed in my car. I don't drink, so no drunk driving in my future. I both respect and fear the law. Vick does neither.


I think we may have found out where your flaw is fort dick. Answer this, do you think only guilty people are indicted? Is this your train of thought, "He must be guilty because he was arrested."?
According to your above quote, that is what I get out of it. You say you do not do anything that would get you indited later. Well, what if you were arrested because someone saw you near a crime scene for whatever. You are innocent, but who is to listen to a guilty man?
Also, the obious reason for some to not reach bail is likelihood of guilt associated with the danger of flight of a possible dangerous being. This presumption while meant to protect society against a possible danger, still maintains a sense of innocent until proven guilty in that that defendant has a right to a speedy trial so that the innocent only pay the smallest of time and this sacrifice is much needed for the system to work.
 

BrassCowboy

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peplaw06;1557871 said:
Lookit... there are a couple of things that you should know.

1) I think Vick is guilty. That is my personal opinion.

2) However, when it comes to the question of "should he be suspended right now?", the answer is easy. My personal opinion means next to nothing. I was not a part of the investigation, nor am I a prosecutor in the case, nor am I Vick's defense attorney (no matter how much you guys want to think so).

I don't know all the facts. I don't know if anyone knows all the facts, save maybe the defendants. Therefore, I don't pretend to know that I know how this case will turn out.

Me personally, if I don't know all the facts, I am not going to clamor for the NFL or the Falcons to make a decision based on what little I do know. But hell, I guess that's just me.

3) Because in my mind, I think he is guilty, if when the trial is over he is ultimately found guilty, I will be able to say "I was right," just like fort, just like Jaxonsdadddd, just like thehoofbite, just like dbair. If he winds up being found not guilty, I will be wrong. But my being wrong won't cost him anything.

This is perfect right here and basically says it like it should be said. I think he is guilty, but like anyone else, I prefer justice to work its course and that person be found guilty before punsihment is dished out and that is what you point out in #3
 

HailGreen28

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After the Duke lacrosse fiasco, wasn't it the prevailing opinion nationwide that people should keep an open mind until one side concedes, or the case is tried?

That being said, if Vick did even half the stuff he's accused of, I hope he gets serious jail time.:(
 

BrassCowboy

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Green28;1557878 said:
What's your stance on PacMan?


Not entirely familiar with all the details of what was up with PacMan, what happen in his court cases, or where he is at for that matter, but I will go out on a limb here and say that he has had I believe about a dozen run-ins with the law since entering the NFL (read something like that somewhere and I believe it was more but...) and the NFL has provisions in the contract with the NFLPA that says multiple offenses that reflect on the NFL outside of NFL itself may be dealt with by Goodell. I do not believe that it says anything about whether they are actually guilty of any of those multiple offenses. This can be looked up.

So yes, there is a difference here since this would be Vick's first run in with the law. I cannot for a minute believe that Vick knew nothing of what was going on at his own house, but he does deserve his day in court before his career is affected.
 

CowboyWay

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Green28;1557878 said:
What's your stance on PacMan?

Pacman has a long and glorious list of reasons why he was suspended. I don't care that he hasn't been convicted of anything. The guys been arrested 8-9 times in the last 2 years.

This is a different matter completely. Vick says "I'm innocent of these charges".

You have to admit, at this point, with what you know by reading the inditement (spelling), there is a "reasonable" doubt in your head that he did it isn't there? Or have you read enough of the inditement to throw him in prison right now?
 

GimmeTheBall!

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fortdick;1557787 said:
I was checking out Extemeskins to see how they were taking the Vick news over there.

Their poll

81% say he should be suspend

Our poll

55% say he should be suspended.

Now, does that mean that Skins fans are more compassionate towards animals? Or that we just have more persuasive Vick defenders?

I don't know
Maybe this board is just filled with those with "feelings"
I think normally that reason would prevail, but no
On the other hand I think people at this board are a bit more pragmatic
In a kinda bland, vaguely educated touchy-feely way
But hey, that is just what I have observed
:)
I guess the message from here is let the system wend its way and then convict da thug
:D
 
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