I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[G2]

I had no idea what a football move was, until I understood what it was used for. Then it made sense right away. It was used to determine whether a player with control and two feet down had held the ball long enough in order to become a runner.

It's anything a runner does (on purpose, of course).

That's what I DON'T like. "Become a runner."

 

[percyhoward]

The rule has been the same since 2010 and the Calvin Johnson play. There hasn’t been any rule changes only rule clarifications.

In 2015, the rule was completely rewritten. The standard for becoming a runner was changed from "control + 2 feet + football move" to "control + 2 feet + upright long enough."

And everyone knew the rule was rewritten, with the football move taken out, as a reaction to the Dez overturn.

 

[KJJ]

The football move is anything a runner does on purpose.

Football moves:
turning upfield
tucking the ball away
taking additional steps
lunging
reaching for a line of gain

Not football moves:
going up and high-pointing a football over a defender

Only runners make football moves. To say Dez made one is to say he was a runner.

Football moves are subjective and it comes down to ones own judgement. I said Dez completed football moves in my book, not the NFL’s.

 

[percyhoward]

That's what I DON'T like. "Become a runner."

Would you prefer, "become a player in possession of a live ball?"

A football move is anything a player in possession of a live ball does on purpose.

 

[KJJ]

In 2015, the rule was completely rewritten. The standard for becoming a runner was changed from "control + 2 feet + football move" to "control + 2 feet + upright long enough."

And everyone knew the rule was rewritten, with the football move taken out, as a reaction to the Dez overturn.

The rule was clarified not changed. To clarify something it has to be rewritten.

 

[percyhoward]

Football moves are subjective and it comes down to ones own judgement. I said Dez completed football moves in my book, not the NFL’s.

Those weren't my examples of football moves, they were the NFL's.

 

[KJJ]

Those weren't my examples of football moves, they were the NFL's.

I didn’t say they were your examples, I pointed to them being the NFL’s.

 

[percyhoward]

The rule was clarified not changed. To clarify something it has to be rewritten.

It's not like they described the football move in some new way. They took it out completely, and replaced it with something completely different. As of 2015, officials would no longer be looking for a football move to see if the player had become a runner. They'd be looking at his body position to decide if he was upright.

As a direct result of the Dez play, they eliminated the football move.

 

[blindzebra]

It's not like they described the football move in some new way. They took it out completely, and replaced it with something completely different. As of 2015, officials would no longer be looking for a football move to see if the player had become a runner. They'd be looking at his body position to decide if he was upright.

As a direct result of the Dez play, they eliminated the football move.

 

[blindzebra]

It's not like they described the football move in some new way. They took it out completely, and replaced it with something completely different. As of 2015, officials would no longer be looking for a football move to see if the player had become a runner. They'd be looking at his body position to decide if he was upright.

As a direct result of the Dez play, they eliminated the football move.

Yeah the guy that screwed it up called it a clarification and these clowns are buying it hook line and sinker.

 

[kskboys]

I can now unequivocally state that I know more about NFL rules than your average possum.

 

[KJJ]

It's not like they described the football move in some new way. They took it out completely, and replaced it with something completely different. As of 2015, officials would no longer be looking for a football move to see if the player had become a runner. They'd be looking at his body position to decide if he was upright.

As a direct result of the Dez play, they eliminated the football move.

Like I said a football move is too subjective. Looking at a players body position to determine if they’re upright enough to establish themselves as a runner is a lot easier than trying to decide if they made a so called “football move.” The league continues to attempt to clarify the rule because of all the confusion but these are not rule changes. However rule changes will happen eventually.

 

[Gator88]

Like I said a football move is too subjective. Looking at a players body position to determine if they’re upright enough to establish themselves as a runner is a lot easier than trying to decide if they made a so called “football move.” The league continues to attempt to clarify the rule but these are not rule changes.

 

[blindzebra]

You could literally post that on every post he made in this thread.

 

[rkell87]

He took one stumbling step as he was falling. If some of you want to count steps or create steps go ahead but steps don’t matter when a receiver is going to the ground.

But they do when you're establishing yourself as a runner which is the entire argument.

 

[blindzebra]

But they do when you're establishing yourself as a runner which is the entire argument.

His insistence to use steps is just an attempt to misrepresent the facts. Steps do not matter in the catch process, it is feet down in bounds. Dez got control with his left foot down, and then the right foot followed and that ended a) and b) of 8.1.3. He then stepped with his left foot, moved the ball to the hand nearest the goal line, attempted to brace and lunge, and reached the ball out.

Their argument is that none of that was a football move it was all the act of falling. A rational person would give them the step as an attempt to regain his balance but Shields knocking his right leg up prevented that from happening. You could even give them the brace as an attempt to break his fall, but nothing in a momentum of the fall can explain him pushing off that left leg or moving the ball into his left hand and reaching out with it. Those are 100% football moves.

 

[KJJ]

But they do when you're establishing yourself as a runner which is the entire argument.

A receiver can’t establish themselves as a runner when they’re going to the ground. Rarely do you see a receiver go up and high point a football while battling a defender and are able to land on their feet without falling to the ground. They’re unable to maintain their balance and their momentum takes them to the ground. In most cases for a receiver to establish themselves as a runner they have to keep both feet firmly planted on the ground while making a catch. They have to be able to stay upright and begin to run.

 

[percyhoward]

Like I said a football move is too subjective. Looking at a players body position to determine if they’re upright enough to establish themselves as a runner is a lot easier than trying to decide if they made a so called “football move.”

The football move is for field officials, because it's an observable act that either happened or didn't happen. The replay official then watches to see if a player did something or just fell down. If there's any doubt, he is supposed to go with the call on the field.

"Upright long enough" is for replay officials, because it gives the field official no physical act that he can look for. But what it does do is relieve the replay official of the burden of having to defend his decision. Since there's no act to look for, it's just his opinion about whether a player was upright. He has no accountability, and can overturn the call on the field based 100% on his judgment, since he knows there no standard for how many degrees is "upright."

Dez scored standing up on this play. Is he upright?

 

[KJJ]

Dez scored standing up on this play. Is he upright?

He wouldn’t have been upright enough to not be ruled going to the ground. His momentum/body lean was taking him to the ground as soon as his left foot contacted the ground. Dez going to the ground didn’t over rule the catch, it was his inability to hang onto the ball through the contact of the ground that overruled it. The ball touching the ground didn’t overrule the catch, it was the ball coming loose that overruled it.

 

[rkell87]

A receiver can’t establish themselves as a runner when they’re going to the ground. Rarely do you see a receiver go up and high point a football while battling a defender and are able to land on their feet without falling to the ground. They’re unable to maintain their balance and their momentum takes them to the ground. In most cases for a receiver to establish themselves as a runner they have to keep both feet firmly planted on the ground while making a catch. They have to be able to stay upright and begin to run.

Dez Bryant literally satisfies all the criteria that you just established that he needs to do to become a runner. He had both feet on the ground and made the catch was up right turn took a step to go up field to begin to run he was a runner he was trying to run if the defenders leg hadn't hooked his leg he would have been running and not falling he would not of been going to the ground he was trying to run I don't know how many more ways I can say this he's a runner.