I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[KJJ]

Now you're just making things up. He was not on a boat. To you it may be a small detail but to me it shows you don't research anything and just spout off. You have no credibility at this point. There is nothing in the cba that says good players are held to a higher standard than jags.

The TO vs Moss reference was just another item to prove my point that the NFL does not care about behavior. Moss is a golden boy despite not being a role model at all. TO was beyond cocky, or high self esteem if you want to spin it, but the dude had work ethic and stayed out of trouble. My entire point is the nfl has no credibility on character issues so shush about Elliot needing to be a role model.

If it wasn’t a boat then what was it? It looked like a boat and that’s all that matters. If you Google Ezekiel Elliott on party boat that’s one of the images that come up. It’s a detail that’s so minute it shows that you’re just looking for anything to argue about. Dude you’re the one with no credibility you’re spinning there’s a conspiracy against the Cowboys. Shouldn’t you be in class right now? Go find someone to play tiddlywinks with. The only point you’re proving are the ones I’ve made that you don’t have a clue.

 

[KJJ]

wrong. explain Jesse James. Explain the eagles guy bobbling twice not maintaining and then explain ertz losing control when he hits the ground. Nfl has no leg to stand on because its called different every time.

You’re the one with no leg to stand on you think there’s a conspiracy against the Cowboys. Lol Go waste someone else’s time.

 

[Sage3030]

Steratore wasn’t the one who ruled it a catch on the field it was one of the other officials. The play required slow-motion replay to be confirmed. It was clear on replay Dez didn’t complete the process. The Calvin Johnson play looked more like a catch than Dez’s. Steratore made the decision on the Calvin Johnson play on his own with replay. Blandino was not apart of that play. If Steratore thought Calvin Johnson didn’t complete the process he most certainly didn’t think Dez did. Many regard Steratore as the best official in the league.

Then steratore did’nt ule this one either, another official on the field did.

We know you won’t believe it was a catch.

 

[KJJ]

Then steratore did’nt ule this one either, another official on the field did.

We know you won’t believe it was a catch.

Both the Calvin Johnson play and the Dez play required replay to get the calls right. No way can you get those two calls right in real time. They had to be analyzed.

 

[MarcusRock]

I'm not crying conspiracy - just inconsistency. There is a measure of interpretation in the rule as it was in 2014 as well as conflict between the first part and the last part. The first part is the "football move" requirement, the last part is "surviving the ground".

You have to rule that Dez taking 2 steps with control of the ball and then lunging for the end-zone and extending the ball is not a football move

I didn't. The replay official did, Steratore said after the game, Pereira said so during the game, and Blandino when answering questions about the lunge, ruled that it was not demonstrative enough. Blandino said that they looked at the football move/act common to the game aspect of it and stated that it needed "to be more obvious than that" (direct quote) . That is what they ruled and all these guys I mentioned stated that no football move took place. Don't know where you go from there except to say, "nuh uh" and scour the play in slow motion to find another phantom football move to make it so or to say that they organized a lightning quick coverup even though they were all in different places. That's my question. Are they all incompetent or did they all conspire?

and, therefore, is a continuation of "the catch" in order for the "surviving the ground" aspect to be pertinent. But if you rule that what Dez did was a "football move", then he's not in continuation of the catch and "surviving the ground" is not pertinent. Therefore, it becomes subjective and not fact whether it was a "football move" which is my point that the catch should've stood since it was ruled a catch on the field. I would be saying the same thing if they had rule incomplete on the field and upheld it.

You can't take subjectivity completely out of anything which is why replay is there to help. As I said earlier, judgment is needed to determine whether a football move was made or not and they judged that it didn't take place. These guys' job is to know the rules. The replay showed he didn't make a football move and it also showed that the ball touched the ground. So when they determine going to the ground applied, the ball touching the ground set in motion that Dez needed to maintain continuous control of the ball. He didn't and that was an easy call. So when the field official rules there's a catch and video evidence suggests that he applied the wrong catch rule, you apply the right one. That's what replay is for.

The only leg to stand on regarding whether it was "football move" or not is that the 2014 rule didn't say "football move", it said "(i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent.....)".

It doesn't say "football move," it says "an act common to the game" which is used interchangably with football move as Blandino did in that link above.

Clearly Dez wasn't in position to pitch it or pass it, nor to ward off an opponent, but I think it's fair enough to say he was attempting to advance it. Also, immediately after "opponent" is "etc." which again makes it subjective.

I agree that Dez intended to try to advance via a lunge but he did not execute. When you look at players who've executed proper lunges, like Ertz for example, Dez' looks nothing like theirs. This is what I kept asking percy who repeatedly ignored that question and now doesn't even mention the lunge anymore because of those comparisons, so he's "switched" to Dez switching hands as a football move.

Essentially, even under the 2014 rule, Ertz's catch would've hinged on whether he made a football move or not. I think he did so the call was correct, but as with Dez, that's interpretation, not fact. Same with Jesse James.

In that link above, that's Blandino's point. If you don't draw a line somewhere, subjective or not, then you don't have consistency. But you can't completely take subjectivity out of it and not have a ton of fumbled catches if you take out the subjective "enough of a" football move or "time enough" for one.

 

[pacboyX]

I think the league has owed us Cowboys an apology for far too long. This is literally the same catch. Dez even moved it to one hand smh

 

[Bleedblue1111]

I agree that Dez intended to try to advance via a lunge but he did not execute. When you look at players who've executed proper lunges, like Ertz for example, Dez' looks nothing like theirs. This is what I kept asking percy who repeatedly ignored that question and now doesn't even mention the lunge anymore because of those comparisons, so he's "switched" to Dez switching hands as a football move.
.

That's because the turf gives way, as he pushes off with his left foot. Why wasn't that taken into consideration? So basically a crappy field robbed him of his football move?

 

[Oh_Canada]

Lol. The rule and the league that condones it are both pathetic.

 

[Direwolf63]

Lol. The rule and the league that condones it are both pathetic.

That pretty much says it all.

 

[The Quest for Six]

Nowhere near the same....

 

[percyhoward]

So you're saying that Steratore, Pereira, and Blandino all missed football moves even though they're hired to do nothing but interpret the rules? Gotcha.

It was ruled a catch and down by contact on the field, so there needed to be clear evidence that no football move happened. They simply said they felt it was all a part of the process of going to the ground. They showed no evidence to support that explanation though. When a receiver tucks the ball (takes one hand off the ball and holds it in a way that runners do), that's not a continuation of the process of going to the ground. It's a separate act that shows he's no longer trying to catch it.

Where in the rules, old or new, does switching hands equal a football move? Tucking the ball is in the new rules but Dez didn't do that either. He took one hand off the ball and left it out where it came loose.

The old rule (that was in place at the time of the play) says that, after control and two feet, the catch process is completed and the player becomes a runner by performing any act common to the game. So a better question would be, How is tucking the ball in one hand not something that receivers do when advancing a ball that they've caught?

Start by asking yourself what exactly a football move is, and why it matters. It's there because there needs to be a time requirement after control and two feet down. The player must maintain control of the ball long enough to make a football move. Once he performs any act common to the game (or, since 2016, tucking the ball, turning up field, taking additional steps) he's done something to show that he's met the time requirement. He's a runner now.

"Runner" does not mean someone who's upright, it's simply a player in possession of a live ball. Once control, two feet, and the time requirement are met, the player is now a runner.

Again, when going to the ground applies, number of steps do not matter.

You just put the cart squarely before the horse.

Until the player goes to the ground, the official doesn't even know whether to apply even Item 1. In order to apply Item 1, he has to know that the player went to the ground as a receiver. That he did not establish himself as a runner before he hit the ground. Under "upright long enough" it's the official's judgment that makes the player a runner. Under the 2014 rules and also the other current standard (yes, there are two) it's the act common to the game that makes him a runner.

 

[robertfchew]

Using the phrase “truth bomb” should tell everyone all they need to know about you.

he probably says synergy and Mano e Mano also.

 

[DogFace]

I may be the biggest target here. I’ve received a lot of nasty hate mail the past three years due to my views on this topic.

That’s not close to the only reason.

 

[MarcusRock]

That's because the turf gives way, as he pushes off with his left foot. Why wasn't that taken into consideration? So basically a crappy field robbed him of his football move?

Because it can't be. It's woulda coulda. If he had more solid footing he might have launched himself into the end zone which they could easily say was separate from him going to the ground because he would have probably changed his trajectory to get there. But instead he faceplanted, jarring the ball loose, which all looked like one motion. I don't think it was the turf that robbed him inasmuch as Shields did just enough to bother Dez to the point he couldn't get a solid step as he was going to the ground.

 

[robertfchew]

If it wasn’t a boat then what was it? It looked like a boat and that’s all that matters. If you Google Ezekiel Elliott on party boat that’s one of the images that come up. It’s a detail that’s so minute it shows that you’re just looking for anything to argue about. Dude you’re the one with no credibility you’re spinning there’s a conspiracy against the Cowboys. Shouldn’t you be in class right now? Go find someone to play tiddlywinks with. The only point you’re proving are the ones I’ve made that you don’t have a clue.

spend 10 seconds to read the article it says st Patricks day parade. That looks like a float to me not a boat. Nice try. You don't even spend enough time to read an article or look at the pictures and you expect people to consider your opinion on anything?

I started arguing one point and it got turned into different things so I used facts to prove you don't know what you're talking about. If you want to get back to the non catches we can. I have all day.

 

[percyhoward]

Regardless of the fact if Dez was lunging at the goal line, or Dez was falling forward, he was still a receiver.

You've got all of that right except the part about Dez being a receiver. Keep in mind, Dez caught the ball with both hands. Without even watching the video, and just looking at the thumbnail, see how's he's putting out his right hand to brace his fall and holding the ball in his left? That's common of runners who are about to go to the ground.

 

[DogFace]

Because it can't be. It's woulda coulda. If he had more solid footing he might have launched himself into the end zone which they could easily say was separate from him going to the ground because he would have probably changed his trajectory to get there. But instead he faceplanted, jarring the ball loose. I don't think it was the turf that robbed him inasmuch as Shields did just enough to bother Dez to the point he couldn't get a solid step as he was going to the ground.

You still never answered several questions from the last thread on this subject, despite your incessant whining that another poster wouldn’t answer your question.

I predict you continue that trend in this thread.

 

[robertfchew]

I didn't. The replay official did, Steratore said after the game, Pereira said so during the game, and Blandino when answering questions about the lunge, ruled that it was not demonstrative enough. Blandino said that they looked at the football move/act common to the game aspect of it and stated that it needed "to be more obvious than that" (direct quote) . That is what they ruled and all these guys I mentioned stated that no football move took place. Don't know where you go from there except to say, "nuh uh" and scour the play in slow motion to find another phantom football move to make it so or to say that they organized a lightning quick coverup even though they were all in different places. That's my question. Are they all incompetent or did they all conspire?



You can't take subjectivity completely out of anything which is why replay is there to help. As I said earlier, judgment is needed to determine whether a football move was made or not and they judged that it didn't take place. These guys' job is to know the rules. The replay showed he didn't make a football move and it also showed that the ball touched the ground. So when they determine going to the ground applied, the ball touching the ground set in motion that Dez needed to maintain continuous control of the ball. He didn't and that was an easy call. So when the field official rules there's a catch and video evidence suggests that he applied the wrong catch rule, you apply the right one. That's what replay is for.



It doesn't say "football move," it says "an act common to the game" which is used interchangably with football move as Blandino did in that link above.



I agree that Dez intended to try to advance via a lunge but he did not execute. When you look at players who've executed proper lunges, like Ertz for example, Dez' looks nothing like theirs. This is what I kept asking percy who repeatedly ignored that question and now doesn't even mention the lunge anymore because of those comparisons, so he's "switched" to Dez switching hands as a football move.



In that link above, that's Blandino's point. If you don't draw a line somewhere, subjective or not, then you don't have consistency. But you can't completely take subjectivity out of it and not have a ton of fumbled catches if you take out the subjective "enough of a" football move or "time enough" for one.

You can quote inept refs and officials all day. Catching, switching arms, diving for the end zone, is a move common to the game. He layed out completely for that td how on earth was that not enough?

 

[TwoDeep3]

You've got all of that right except the part about Dez being a receiver. Keep in mind, Dez caught the ball with both hands. Without even watching the video, and just looking at the thumbnail, see how's he's putting out his right hand to brace his fall and holding the ball in his left? That's common of runners who are about to go to the ground.

Watch the video and watch their legs bump. It clearly looks like a trip, which comes before any alleged football move. His next step was as he was falling to the ground. And that makes the catch susceptible to the catch rule needing to control it throughout the catch to the ground. The ball hit the ground and popped out.

Incomplete per the rules.

 

[JDSmith]

Not the same, but both catches.