I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[MarcusRock]

Both plays were completely different. Plain and simple. Any comparison is as attempt to whine.

Attempt? I'd say they're executing quite well, lol.

 

[robertfchew]

Do they think Pereira played along too? Because he agreed with both of them on the broadcast. Conspiracy is thrown around way too leisurely. Never need actual proof, so why not?

Do you watch the games? what was the ertz play? the ball slipped twice on the first skeptical call and they still called it a td. There is no common sense with you. Do you not want to see it because you aren't ready to accept that the nfl is fixed? it took me a year or so before I realized that wrestling was fake, I was Also 12 years old.....

 

[KJJ]

Do they think Pereira played along too? Because he agreed with both of them on the broadcast. Conspiracy is thrown around way too leisurely. Never need actual proof, so why not?

They probably do think Pereira played along as well as the entire league. It fits with their conspiracy theory. The rule hasn’t changed but the league has tried to clarify it. Attempting to try and make the masses here understand it is futile. It’s like talking to brick walls there’s far too much bias. Many here have their own interpretation of the rule that naturally makes Dez’s catch perfectly legal in their rule books.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Wrong. Dez landed on two feet with control, turned...football move...took a step...football move...changed ball to his left hand...football move...braced and extended...football move.

MarcusRock?

More like MarcusJustGotRekt.

 

[MarcusRock]

https://***NOT-ALLOWED***/file/d/10u-3fzc38TAKvODQYjAbPmYZ6x8_svyI/view


This was the rule for the 2014 season:
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds: a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

It doesn't say anywhere that he needs to be a runner. So let's see: a) secures control - check, b) touches ground inbounds - check, c) maintains control long "enough". Ok this last one is subjective. The fact that you say it was a "clear" no catch means you don't know what you are talking about or you are clearly biased. This stuff is incredibly subjective. What is enough? What is a common act to the game?

Did you ever read the original rule? It doesn't say you need to be a runner, or take a certain amount of steps. You just need to maintain control long enough, that's it. And one way to show you maintained control is to advance the ball. Dez clearly did that. I just watched in slow motion on youtube and I don't see how anyone can say Dez didn't reach for the end zone. In no place does the rule say you have to be a runner and lunge forward.

At the end of the day, it was all about the ref deciding whether Dez's attempt to reach for the end zone was "enough". I think most of us would agree that if the refs had called that a catch nobody would have complained. He could have said, Dez gained control inbounds and then reached for the end zone which is an act common to the game.

The rule is different now, so it is hard to compare the Ertz catch vs Dez's catch. I agree that Ertz's lunge is more of a football move than Dez's reach. That doesn't mean Dez's catch was not a catch.

I have debated the Dez no-catch for years so I know this rule front to back. Being a "runner" and "number of steps" is important in explaining the rule. If you complete that 3-part process you list there, you are considered a runner. That's why Ertz' catch was a TD as soon as he crossed the goal line and why you heard the announcers mention that he was a runner. The lunge part is an act common to the game. You admit Ertz' was more demonstrative than Dez'. That is the difference. Dez intended to dive, but Ertz actually executed. If Dez caught the ball on his feet like Ertz did and not while going to the ground, which is Item 1 of that rule that you didn't post, then Dez would have had a catch. But since going to the ground applied, it made no difference how many steps one takes on the way to the ground. Everyone asked mentioned that Dez' lunge was not a demonstrative lunge. Pereira said it during the broadcast, Steratore said it after the game, Blandino said it in an interview on the NFL Network all the same day.

This make sense now?

 

[robertfchew]

They probably do think Pereira played along as well as the entire league. It fits with their conspiracy theory. The rule hasn’t changed but the league has tried to clarify it. Attempting to try and make the masses here understand it is futile. It’s like talking to brick walls there’s far too much bias. Many here have their own interpretation of the rule that naturally makes Dez’s catch perfectly legal in their rule books.

the entire league except the guys on the field who saw it and were supposed to have say unless there was absolute proof to overturn. there was no. you are attempting to be so knowledgeable
that you can't even make common sense calls now. dez caught it, but they said no catch, so therefore the precedent was set that the ball cannot move AT ALL or else they are either picking sides or are clueless.

 

[MarcusRock]

They probably do think Pereira played along as well as the entire league. It fits with their conspiracy theory. The rule hasn’t changed but the league has tried to clarify it. Attempting to try and make the masses here understand it is futile. It’s like talking to brick walls there’s far too much bias. Many here have their own interpretation of the rule that naturally makes Dez’s catch perfectly legal in their rule books.

Emotion is a helluva drug.

 

[KJJ]

Emotion is a helluva drug.

It’s like LSD on this board. Creates some insane behavior.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Emotion is a helluva drug.

So is self-righteous posturing.

 

[BIGDen]

After skying high to catch the ball and coming down to the ground with each step. He had possession, 2 feet but did not make the football move that would have undone the going to the ground rule. There was no lunge. He intended it but did not execute. Therefore, once the ball hit the ground and came loose, there was no catch. There are rules that govern this.

He had control of the ball, after taking 3 steps, took the ball in his left hand and made a football move by clearly extending for the end zone. He met EVERY criteria for a catch at the time and the overruling of the catch on the field was 100% wrong. Period.

 

[MarcusRock]

Do you watch the games? what was the ertz play? the ball slipped twice on the first skeptical call and they still called it a td. There is no common sense with you. Do you not want to see it because you aren't ready to accept that the nfl is fixed? it took me a year or so before I realized that wrestling was fake, I was Also 12 years old.....

The NFL is fixed, and yet you still watch. On the old DC boards, didn't you say you were selling your season tickets at a discount? Done that yet?

 

[robertfchew]

I have debated the Dez no-catch for years so I know this rule front to back. Being a "runner" and "number of steps" is important in explaining the rule. If you complete that 3-part process you list there, you are considered a runner. That's why Ertz' catch was a TD as soon as he crossed the goal line and why you heard the announcers mention that he was a runner. The lunge part is an act common to the game. You admit Ertz' was more demonstrative than Dez'. That is the difference. Dez intended to dive, but Ertz actually executed. If Dez caught the ball on his feet like Ertz did and not while going to the ground, which is Item 1 of that rule that you didn't post, then Dez would have had a catch. But since going to the ground applied, it made no difference how many steps one takes on the way to the ground. Everyone asked mentioned that Dez' lunge was not a demonstrative lunge. Pereira said it during the broadcast, Steratore said it after the game, Blandino said it in an interview on the NFL Network all the same day.

This make sense now?

no because dez switched hands and went for the pylon and crossed the plane, and the after down action was exactly the same. the ball did not hit and he self recovered. Dez was ruled not a catch so the ertz was not a catch, therefore the eagles were given a Super Bowl. Lets not even debate the first bs call that was bumbled twice.

 

[MarcusRock]

He had control of the ball, after taking 3 steps, took the ball in his left hand and made a football move by clearly extending for the end zone. He met EVERY criteria for a catch at the time and the overruling of the catch on the field was 100% wrong. Period.

Took 3 steps on the way to the ground, as in "going to the ground." And he didn't clearly extend to the end zone because he hit the ground before he could do anything. Taking the ball in his left hand was no football move. He had 2 hands on the ball and just took one off.

 

[diefree666]

Marcus Rock is like a lawyer working to get a murderer off using technicalities

After the Dez mess virtually every person WHO HAD EVER PLAYED THE GAME said that was a catch.

Lawyer types do not care about right or wrong or justice or anything like that.

He claims that is just the rule

At one time Slavery was legal but wrong obviously
This so called catch rule is exactly the same thing in a much less important way

 

[robertfchew]

Took 3 steps on the way to the ground, as in "going to the ground." And he didn't clearly extend to the end zone because he hit the ground before he could do anything. Taking the ball in his left hand was no football move. He had 2 hands on the ball and just took one off.

bro are you blind? dez reached way out. Its not even possible to debate this with you. google dez catch 2014 and it is him laying out with full control of the ball

 

[MarcusRock]

Marcus Rock is like a lawyer working to get a murderer off using technicalities

After the Dez mess virtually every person WHO HAD EVER PLAYED THE GAME said that was a catch.

Lawyer types do not care about right or wrong or justice or anything like that.

A murderer wouldn't get off if there weren't technicalities in existence in the first place.

And I'll bet absolutely none of those players quoted the rules as they explained why they thought it was a catch. Unfortunately, that's what governed the play. It would pay to know them before spouting off about them.

 

[TwistedL0g1k]

Think I'm ready to return to the "Two Feet + Control = Catch" rule.

No more debate about a "football move", or "did the receiver become a runner?".

Might not be perfect, but at least it is simple and consistent.

 

[MarcusRock]

Think I'm ready to return to the "Two Feet + Control = Catch" rule.

No more debate about a "football move", or "did the receiver become a runner?".

Might not be perfect, but at least it is simple and consistent.

You can't, unless you want a ton of fumbles when receivers make acrobatic catches. A receiver lays out to snag a ball untouched and lands on his shoulder first. He's down at that point but the ball comes out as he rolls on the ground. That's now a fumble instead of an incomplete pass. You have to account for diving catches somehow that doesn't have almost every one of them resulting in a fumble.

 

[Soth]

I have debated the Dez no-catch for years so I know this rule front to back. Being a "runner" and "number of steps" is important in explaining the rule. If you complete that 3-part process you list there, you are considered a runner. That's why Ertz' catch was a TD as soon as he crossed the goal line and why you heard the announcers mention that he was a runner. The lunge part is an act common to the game. You admit Ertz' was more demonstrative than Dez'. That is the difference. Dez intended to dive, but Ertz actually executed. If Dez caught the ball on his feet like Ertz did and not while going to the ground, which is Item 1 of that rule that you didn't post, then Dez would have had a catch. But since going to the ground applied, it made no difference how many steps one takes on the way to the ground. Everyone asked mentioned that Dez' lunge was not a demonstrative lunge. Pereira said it during the broadcast, Steratore said it after the game, Blandino said it in an interview on the NFL Network all the same day.

This make sense now?

You are using words from the new rule. The old rule says nothing about being a runner, number of steps, or going to the ground. All it says is that you maintain control long enough. It doesn't say anything about catching the ball on your feet vs going to the ground. It just says catches the ball inbounds and maintains control long enough. Let me ask you a question, have you always been using the new re-written rule to debate this topic? Yes, under the new rule, it would not have been a catch.

I do agree with you that Ertz's lunge had more "power" if you will. Under the old rule, I think both would have been a catch, and yes, Ertz's would have been an easier call because he reached out with more control and power than Dez.

Who decides whether Dez's act of reaching for the end zone is enough? It is 100% subjective. If we talk about "time elapsed" I am not sure that Ertz's maintained control for a longer time because he was running really fast.

Using quotes on NFL network from the people involved in calling this a non-catch is useless. Of course blandino will say his call was right, come on. After the broadcast Dez says he caught it, and that he lunged for the end zone, does that count as a useful quote?

 

[MarcusRock]

You are using words from the new rule. The old rule says nothing about being a runner, number of steps, or going to the ground. All it says is that you maintain control long enough. It doesn't say anything about catching the ball on your feet vs going to the ground. It just says catches the ball inbounds and maintains control long enough. Let me ask you a question, have you always been using the new re-written rule to debate this topic? Yes, under the new rule, it would not have been a catch.

No. I am using terminology in effect at the time of the Dez play. I have a copy of those 2014 rules. The rule didn't change from its essence then. They enhanced it because people thought it was "too hard to understand" but the basic principles are the same.

I do agree with you that Ertz's lunge had more "power" if you will. Under the old rule, I think both would have been a catch, and yes, Ertz's would have been an easier call because he reached out with more control and power than Dez.

Ertz' lunge having more "power" is why his play was a catch and Dez' wasn't. Dez needed to do more than he did but he couldn't because he was going to the ground too fast and ran out of time to properly lunge. That is the difference. The going to the ground rule, which is Item 1 of the catch rules:

"Item 1: Player Going to the Ground. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball throughout the process of contacting the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete."

The ball hitting the ground and coming loose for a second is what caused that pass to be incomplete. If the ball doesn't hit the ground, it would have been a catch.

Who decides whether Dez's act of reaching for the end zone is enough? It is 100% subjective. If we talk about "time elapsed" I am not sure that Ertz's maintained control for a longer time because he was running really fast.

The officials who study the rules front to back decide. But you just said yourself that you noticed a difference in Dez and Ertz' lunges so they drew a line in between. Dez fell on the no-catch side. So no one can say that the two plays were identical. They were nowhere close to being identical. Dez jumped in the air while Ertz was already on his feet. When you're on your feet you stand a much better chance of completing a catch because that 3-part catch process was written for receivers who are upright, not going to the ground which is the separate rule I posted above that takes effect when you're falling and haven't completed the 3-part process yet.

Using quotes on NFL network from the people involved in calling this a non-catch is useless. Of course blandino will say his call was right, come on. After the broadcast Dez says he caught it, and that he lunged for the end zone, does that count as a useful quote?

If Dez is arbiter of the rules of the game, then his word would carry weight. But it wasn't just Blandino justifying the rule. Steratore the referee did and so did former rules guy Mike Pereira during the broadcast. All of them were asked about Dez' lunge and all 3 said Dez needed to be more demonstrative in his lunge to be considered a football move. Ertz' was, but he was also on his feet, establishing himself as a runner, even before he lunged, IMO. That's all he needed.