I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[percyhoward]

Bottom line - we need a whole lot more consistency in how rules are written & how they are enforced and we need to change the rules to the simplest possible interpretation of what is a catch.

Great post, all of it.

They need to start by taking out one of the two contradictory standards currently in place that determine completion of the catch process.

The old standard of the football move is an act that is either performed by the player or not. The newer standard of "upright long enough" is pure judgment on the part of the officials.

 

[CPanther95]

Under "upright long enough" the overturn would have been justified, yes.

Only problem is, "upright long enough" wasn't instituted until the next season. Under the 2014 rules, all Dez had to do was complete the catch process before he went to the ground.

I'm not talking about "upright long enough". The going to the ground clause applied. He was going to the ground from the second he touched the ball.

This part: "If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass..."

 

[percyhoward]

I'm not talking about "upright long enough". The going to the ground clause applied. He was going to the ground from the second he touched the ball.

Item 1 only applies to players in the act of catching a pass.

 

[CPanther95]

Item 1 only applies to players in the act of catching a pass.

What do you think Dez was doing, punting?

 

[percyhoward]

rock is braindead. dez swapped hands and went for the end zone that was 10x more emphatic than what ertz did. he fell and lost control it was not a catch and neither was the first half td where the fool lost control 2x within 5 seconds.

Ertz took a 3rd step, which completed the catch process and made him a runner.

"A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps."

 

[percyhoward]

What do you think Dez was doing, punting?

Dez caught a pass and went to the ground as a runner, down by contact.

 

[robertfchew]

Steratore wasn’t the one who ruled it a catch on the field it was one of the other officials. The play required slow-motion replay to be confirmed. It was clear on replay Dez didn’t complete the process. The Calvin Johnson play looked more like a catch than Dez’s. Steratore made the decision on the Calvin Johnson play on his own with replay. Blandino was not apart of that play. If Steratore thought Calvin Johnson didn’t complete the process he most certainly didn’t think Dez did. Many regard Steratore as the best official in the league.

if you know their name they are one of the worst officials. They are supposed to be impartial and keep the game legit if you know them its because they are morons who have blown huge calls. If goodell woulda been ousted the nfl could have cleaned house on these clowns

 

[CPanther95]

Dez caught a pass and went to the ground as a runner, down by contact.

He was going to the ground while he was in the process of completing the catch. Unless you actually think that he didn't start going to the ground until after his 2nd and 3rd steps. The video makes it clear that wasn't the case.

That's why it applied.

 

[MarcusRock]

Great post, all of it.

They need to start by taking out one of the two contradictory standards currently in place that determine completion of the catch process.

The old standard of the football move is an act that is either performed by the player or not. The newer standard of "upright long enough" is pure judgment on the part of the officials.

The old standard is judgment as well. Did a player perform a football move or not? The Dez play was judged such that a football move was not performed by him. So what's the problem? If the "football move" rule wording was the better standard than "upright long enough" (which are the same anyway, but that's a different topic) and the officials ruled that Dez didn't perform a football move, then why do you and others dispute it other than not getting what you wanted?

 

[KJJ]

Other than the Calvin Johnson play The only other plays that have been compared to the Dez play was the play last night along with the Larry Fitzgerald play and the Julius Thomas play. Ertz, Fitz and Thomas never left the ground to make their catches, which enabled them to become runners just prior to going to the ground. When a receiver goes up in the air and high points a ball they’re concentration is focused on catching the ball. Their momentum begins to take them to the ground. Most receivers who go up in the air to make a catch immediately fall or stumble to the ground after their feet touch the ground because they lose their stability.

Once the receiver’s momentum begins to take them to the ground they’re going to be ruled “going to the ground” therefore they have to complete the catch process. If a receiver doesn’t have to go up in the air to make a catch they can maintain a firm base and immediately establish themselves as a runner. Once they establish themselves as a runner it’s a catch and are not required to complete the catch process. There’s always going to be some judgment in these calls and it takes a clear understanding of the rule to make the proper judgement.

 

[robertfchew]

Ertz took a 3rd step, which completed the catch process and made him a runner.

"A player has the ball long enough to become a runner when, after his second foot is on the ground, he is capable of avoiding or warding off impending contact of an opponent, tucking the ball away, turning up field, or taking additional steps."

additional is not a synonym for three. dez caught and swapped hands and went for the end zone if thats not a football move nothing is. If you want to get down to intent and what you think was in the players head then we can argue ertz was carried by momentum and didn't actually make a play nor did he establish himself. The dez play was ruled a touchdown on the field and everyone knew it was a td in real time. Its obvious the ertz play was a score but not with the precedent the nfl has set. The ball CANNOT move at all at any point during a score. Give me slow mo of any play ever and I can negate it if I want to.

 

[MarcusRock]

He was going to the ground while he was in the process of completing the catch. Unless you actually think that he didn't start going to the ground until after his 2nd and 3rd steps. The video makes it clear that wasn't the case.

That's why it applied.

They probably want to say that Dez was running upright and got tripped by Shields. That was Version 2 of the "it was a catch" story before it morphed further. Version 1 was that the ball never hit the ground which, as you can see, some still hold on to even with evidence hitting them in the face. As I said, emotion is a helluva drug.

 

[percyhoward]

He was going to the ground while he was in the process of completing the catch. Unless you actually think that he didn't start going to the ground until after his 2nd and 3rd steps. The video makes it clear that wasn't the case.

That's why it applied.

Dez took a 3rd step, which completed the catch process and made him a runner. He also turned upfield tucked the ball away, and reached for the goal line -- all of which are acts common to the game of football. All of which completed the catch process before he went to the ground.

In order for Item 1 to apply, the player must still be in the act of catching the pass when he goes to the ground. That's why Blandino had to address the football move. They had to prove there was no act common to the game, just a player falling down.

The bold part is the part that's keeping you from understanding why Blandino had to address the football moves. You think "goes to ground" was supposed to be interpreted as "starts to go to the ground." It's really just "goes down" or "lands." under 2014 rules, you could complete the catch process while falling.

 

[KJJ]

What did he try to do besides just catch the ball?

We’ve already covered this multiple times over the past three years. He tried to score but his momentum/body lean was taking him to the ground therefore he had to complete the process. It makes no difference that he caught the ball and switched hands with it or that he took some steps, he had to complete the process of maintaining possession of the ball through the contact of the ground and he didn’t.

 

[percyhoward]

The old standard is judgment as well. Did a player perform a football move or not? The Dez play was judged such that a football move was not performed by him.

The number of hands in which Bryant held the ball, as well as the number of steps he took both involve counting -- not judgment.

 

[KJJ]

if you know their name they are one of the worst officials. They are supposed to be impartial and keep the game legit if you know them its because they are morons who have blown huge calls. If goodell woulda been ousted the nfl could have cleaned house on these clowns

Steratore is an excellent official. He’s the one who gave us a critical first down using an index card this past season if you remember. The problem with you and others are you’re not impartial. You want every single call to go the Cowboys way or think they’re being screwed.

 

[robertfchew]

Other than the Calvin Johnson play The only other plays that have been compared to the Dez play was the play last night along with the Larry Fitzgerald play and the Julius Thomas play. Ertz, Fitz and Thomas never left the ground to make their catches, which enabled them to become runners just prior to going to the ground. When a receiver goes up in the air and high points a ball they’re concentration is focused on catching the ball. Their momentum begins to take them to the ground. Most receivers who go up in the air to make a catch immediately fall or stumble to the ground after their feet touch the ground because they lose their stability.

Once the receiver’s momentum begins to take them to the ground they’re going to be ruled “going to the ground” therefore they have to complete the catch process. If a receiver doesn’t have to go up in the air to make a catch they can maintain a firm base and immediately establish themselves as a runner. Once they establish themselves as a runner it’s a catch and are not required to complete the catch process. There’s always going to be some judgment in these calls and it takes a clear understanding of the rule to make the proper judgement.

you're wrong. how many times have you seen an upright player catch the ball and get crushed and pop it up. If catching the ball on two feet was the standard then we would have a lot less fumbles and the "defenseless" receiver rule would be gone. For example Devante Adams caught the ball and was no longer a receiver and got knocked out by Trevathan and the ref didn't even know what happened but ran up and threw a flag waaaaaay after the play happened. So was he a receiver or not since he caught it and established himself? You're just making things up at this point, I am using precedent set by your same referee heroes.

 

[CPanther95]

Dez took a 3rd step, which completed the catch process and made him a runner. He also turned upfield tucked the ball away, and reached for the goal line -- all of which are acts common to the game of football. All of which completed the catch process before he went to the ground.

In order for Item 1 to apply, the player must still be in the act of catching the pass when he goes to the ground. That's why Blandino had to address the football move. They had to prove there was no act common to the game, just a player falling down.

The bold part is the part that's keeping you from understanding why Blandino had to address the football moves. You think "goes to ground" was supposed to be interpreted as "starts to go to the ground." It's really just "goes down" or "lands." under 2014 rules, you could complete the catch process while falling.

2014 rule states:"If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass"

And it absolutely does mean that if he's going to the ground while he's completing the requirements of the catch, the control after contact with the ground applies.

Your interpretation is suggesting that it means you can't complete your steps and football move after you are on the ground. What would be the point of a clause like that?

 

[KJJ]

Nope

Then you must be blind. It’s obvious that some of you could care less how foolish you look.

 

[percyhoward]

It makes no difference that he caught the ball and switched hands with it or that he took some steps, he had to complete the process of maintaining possession of the ball through the contact of the ground and he didn’t.

Only receivers -- players still in the act of catching a pass -- have to maintain possession throughout contact with the ground. Under the standard of "upright long enough" you can say Dez wasn't a runner yet.

Under the 2014 standard, you can't. You have to prove he didn't complete the catch process before he went to ground. Otherwise Blandino would not have had to address the football move.

Explain why he would look for a football move that didn't matter.