I do not see any difference between that play and the Dez play in 2014 *merged*

[MarcusRock]

The number of hands in which Bryant held the ball, as well as the number of steps he took both involve counting -- not judgment.

Steps are irrelevant when you're going to the ground. Remember, that wording is in the "inferior" rule you pointed out, not the 2014 rules that applied. And you don't switch a ball when you grasp it with 2 and take 1 hand off, you just chose to take one hand off.
--------
The Dez play was judged such that a football move was not performed by him. So what's the problem? If the "football move" rule wording was the better standard than "upright long enough" (which are the same anyway, but that's a different topic) and the officials ruled that Dez didn't perform a football move, then why do you and others dispute it other than not getting what you wanted?

2nd time posting this question. Just making sure you see it.

 

[robertfchew]

Steratore is an excellent official. He’s the one who gave us a critical first down using an index card this past season if you remember. The problem with you and others are you’re not impartial. You want every single call to go the Cowboys way or think they’re being screwed.

the index card thing is regarded as ridiculous. How old are you? Have you ever seen that before? The cowboys season was over at that point I didn't care either way. An index card or a crooked and compromised referee crew should never determine a game.

 

[MarcusRock]

Only receivers -- players still in the act of catching a pass -- have to maintain possession throughout contact with the ground. Under the standard of "upright long enough" you can say Dez wasn't a runner yet.

Under the 2014 standard, you can't. You have to prove he didn't complete the catch process before he went to ground. Otherwise Blandino would not have had to address the football move.

Explain why he would look for a football move that didn't matter.

And when Blandino, Steratore, and Pereira all agreed that a football move didn't take place after review, why do you still dispute that one did?

 

[percyhoward]

Your interpretation is suggesting that it means you can't complete your steps and football move after you are on the ground. What would be the point of a clause like that?

You can complete the process after you hit the ground, as long as you maintain control of the ball. That's the point of Item 1 -- to apply to diving catches when there's no time to complete the catch process before you go down.

The football move is simply a visible manifestation of the time requirement. It has to be visible so that it can be observed, unlike "upright long enough" which is anybody's guess regarding when a fall starts.

 

[MarcusRock]

Steratore is an excellent official. He’s the one who gave us a critical first down using an index card this past season if you remember. The problem with you and others are you’re not impartial. You want every single call to go the Cowboys way or think they’re being screwed.[/QUOTE]

Now there is a truth bomb if ever I saw one. People claim they want a fair game called until a call goes against us and then it's CONSPIRACY!!!

 

[robertfchew]

Steps are irrelevant when you're going to the ground. Remember, that wording is in the "inferior" rule you pointed out, not the 2014 rules that applied. And you don't switch a ball when you grasp it with 2 and take 1 hand off, you just chose to take one hand off.
--------
The Dez play was judged such that a football move was not performed by him. So what's the problem? If the "football move" rule wording was the better standard than "upright long enough" (which are the same anyway, but that's a different topic) and the officials ruled that Dez didn't perform a football move, then why do you and others dispute it other than not getting what you wanted?

2nd time posting this question. Just making sure you see it.

The football move was obvious. It was just as much, if not more, a catch as the ertz thing. How is switching hands and diving not a football move but then all of a sudden there is a time frame for upright long enough? You maintain 100% possession throughout or you don't. The rule cannot be interpreted how the ref crew and the "league office" want each time differently each time. You catch it or you don't.

 

[KJJ]

you're wrong. how many times have you seen an upright player catch the ball and get crushed and pop it up. If catching the ball on two feet was the standard then we would have a lot less fumbles and the "defenseless" receiver rule would be gone. For example Devante Adams caught the ball and was no longer a receiver and got knocked out by Trevathan and the ref didn't even know what happened but ran up and threw a flag waaaaaay after the play happened. So was he a receiver or not since he caught it and established himself? You're just making things up at this point, I am using precedent set by your same referee heroes.

No I’m not wrong, I understand the rule and you don’t or you’re in denial over it. If an upright player catches the football and immediately gets hit and the ball pops up and touches the ground it's a no catch. If it’s a bang bang play they’re not going to call it a catch. The receiver has to clearly show they have complete control of the football.

As far as the Devante Adams play I would have to exam that play. I’m not making anything up I’m telling you what the rule is. If you can’t accept the rule or aren’t intelligent enough to understand it that’s your problem.

 

[JustChip]

https://***NOT-ALLOWED***/file/d/10u-3fzc38TAKvODQYjAbPmYZ6x8_svyI/view


This was the rule for the 2014 season:
A player who makes a catch may advance the ball. A forward pass is complete (by the offense) or intercepted (by the defense) if a player, who is inbounds: a) secures control of the ball in his hands or arms prior to the ball touching the ground; and b) touches the ground inbounds with both feet or with any part of his body other than his hands; and c) maintains control of the ball long enough, after (a) and (b) have been fulfilled, to enable him to perform any act common to the game (i.e., maintaining control long enough to pitch it, pass it, advance with it, or avoid or ward off an opponent, etc.).

It doesn't say anywhere that he needs to be a runner. So let's see: a) secures control - check, b) touches ground inbounds - check, c) maintains control long "enough". Ok this last one is subjective. The fact that you say it was a "clear" no catch means you don't know what you are talking about or you are clearly biased. This stuff is incredibly subjective. What is enough? What is a common act to the game?

Did you ever read the original rule? It doesn't say you need to be a runner, or take a certain amount of steps. You just need to maintain control long enough, that's it. And one way to show you maintained control is to advance the ball. Dez clearly did that. I just watched in slow motion on youtube and I don't see how anyone can say Dez didn't reach for the end zone. In no place does the rule say you have to be a runner and lunge forward.

At the end of the day, it was all about the ref deciding whether Dez's attempt to reach for the end zone was "enough". I think most of us would agree that if the refs had called that a catch nobody would have complained. He could have said, Dez gained control inbounds and then reached for the end zone which is an act common to the game.

The rule is different now, so it is hard to compare the Ertz catch vs Dez's catch. I agree that Ertz's lunge is more of a football move than Dez's reach. That doesn't mean Dez's catch was not a catch.

But here's the problem with the Dez catch - it was ruled complete on the field so there has to be irrefutable evidence to overturn it. Evidence is not subjective so the catch should've stood. It's one of the reasons you'll never see PI reviewable because that is totally subjective in most instances. Dez's was a catch, so was Ertz's.

 

[KJJ]

the index card thing is regarded as ridiculous. How old are you? Have you ever seen that before? The cowboys season was over at that point I didn't care either way. An index card or a crooked and compromised referee crew should never determine a game.

It may have been ridiculous but it went in our favor which proved Steratore and his crew aren’t out to get us. By the way the Cowboys still had an outside chance to make the playoffs so that was an important call. The Seattle loss the following week eliminated them.

 

[robertfchew]

Now there is a truth bomb if ever I saw one. People claim they want a fair game called until a call goes against us and then it's CONSPIRACY!!!

The problem with you and others is you are trying so hard to deny the flat out incompetence of the refs. You are so afraid to see their botched and inconsistent calls because youre afraid you might realize that its fixed and go through the same pain when you realized wrestling was fake. They can't force one team to win but its obvious they steer the games and story line

 

[robertfchew]

But here's the problem with the Dez catch - it was ruled complete on the field so there has to be irrefutable evidence to overturn it. Evidence is not subjective so the catch should've stood. It's one of the reasons you'll never see PI reviewable because that is totally subjective in most instances. Dez's was a catch, so was Ertz's.

these clowns can't see it. Common sense tells you ertz caught it but the nfl already set the standard. the ball cannot move if it moves its not a catch.

 

[KJJ]

Only receivers -- players still in the act of catching a pass -- have to maintain possession throughout contact with the ground. Under the standard of "upright long enough" you can say Dez wasn't a runner yet.

Under the 2014 standard, you can't. You have to prove he didn't complete the catch process before he went to ground. Otherwise Blandino would not have had to address the football move.

Explain why he would look for a football move that didn't matter.

Just give it up. You’re just dying to turn this into 20+ pages. This topic has become an annual offseason event for you.

 

[percyhoward]

And when Blandino, Steratore, and Pereira all agreed that a football move didn't take place after review, why do you still dispute that one did?

Because if they can't see any act occurring other than someone simply falling to the ground, one has to question their competence.

Steps are irrelevant when you're going to the ground. Remember, that wording is in the "inferior" rule you pointed out, not the 2014 rules that applied. And you don't switch a ball when you grasp it with 2 and take 1 hand off, you just chose to take one hand off.

You have to go by the 2014 rule that was actually in place at the time. If you can count that there were two hands on the ball at the time it was controlled, and 1 hand on the ball afterward, you can see that an act common to the game of football just happened there. If you can count steps, you can see that another act common to the game has occurred.

The standard in 2014 was "perform any act" common to the game, and obviously Blandino should have had to address these acts, although he actually only addressed one -- the reach.

 

[percyhoward]

Just give it up. You’re just dying to turn this into 20+ pages. This topic has become an annual offseason event for you.

I take it you can't explain why he would look for a football move that didn't matter then.

 

[MarcusRock]

But here's the problem with the Dez catch - it was ruled complete on the field so there has to be irrefutable evidence to overturn it. Evidence is not subjective so the catch should've stood. It's one of the reasons you'll never see PI reviewable because that is totally subjective in most instances. Dez's was a catch, so was Ertz's.

The irrefutable evidence was that the going to the ground rule applied. The field official didn't rule that it did so when they reviewed, they applied the correct rule as they should have.

The problem with you and others is you are trying so hard to deny the flat out incompetence of the refs. You are so afraid to see their botched and inconsistent calls because youre afraid you might realize that its fixed and go through the same pain when you realized wrestling was fake. They can't force one team to win but its obvious they steer the games and story line

Oh don't get me wrong the refs DO screw stuff up. They're human so it happens. My problem is taking a human mistake and crying CONSPIRACY! because the mistake didn't favor us but then saying, "they owed us" when the mistake does favor us. So do people want a fairly called game or do they just want all calls to go our way?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

The ball touched the ground. No bigger Cowboys fan than myself, but that's not the point of contention as to being a catch or not, I do think it was a catch under the rules in force at the time, but there's no way it didn't touch the ground with the way Bryant was holding it as his body hit the ground, even if you can't see the video because a. you won't look at it or b. your eyesight is so poor you can't see or c. you just won't see it despite its being there.

Sorry guys, regardless the ruling in the game was "no catch", we can beat the subject to death but it's never going to be 2014 in Green Bay again....

 

[Blue&Silver]

Ertz had possession crossing the goal line. To me that was an easy touchdown. Dez's was more complicated to me. He fumbled the ball before ever reaching the goal line. Looking at the Dez not touchdown you can either call it incomplete, or a completion or fumbled at the 1 foot line. It could have went either way.

 

[KJJ]

I take it you can't explain why he would look for a football move that didn't matter then.

We’ve gone through that several times the past three years. I’m not going to rehash the same argument over and over every offseason. You may not have other things to do but I do.

 

[robertfchew]

It may have been ridiculous but it went in our favor which proved Steratore and his crew aren’t out to get us. By the way the Cowboys still had an outside chance to make the playoffs so that was an important call. The Seattle loss the following week eliminated them.

He isn't personally neither of us know the man outside of tv. After everything that happened this year and both of those non catches called td's after review you think goodell didn't have a say in that? An absolute joke of a suspension, 6 games without a single holding call, and 2 touchdowns that went completely against the rule that screwed the cowboys and is still talked about to this day. None of this is suspicious at all?

 

[links18]

There was not sufficient evidence to overturn the call on the field on either play. I don't know if Dez caught it or not, but it was too close to overturn the call on the field. The play last night looked like a clear TD to me. He caught the ball, was clearly a runner with possession and broke the plane.