I hate the 3-4 defense

[AsthmaField]

What made Doomsday was the men who played not the 4-3 flex. As the talent started to drop off in the mid to late 80's the 4-3 flex was no longer getting the job done because the talent was no longer there.

As is the case with every defense... including the 3-4.

One other thing matters more than just about anything. The defensive coordinator. Get a good one of those and you have improved whatever defense you run, by a factor of 10.

 

[Doomsday101]

As is the case with every defense... including the 3-4.

One other thing matters more than just about anything. The defensive coordinator. Get a good one of those and you have improved whatever defense you run, by a factor of 10.

True but then it does not hurt having guys like Lilly, later on Randy White or Too Tall Jones, Harvey Martin and the LB core we had in those years with Lee Roy Jordan, DD Lewis and others. You need talent to win, when that talent was gone and not replaced they did not fair well even under some of the same coaches.

 

[rw54]

I don't like the 3-4, never have never will. I enjoy watching defensive tackles play. I like watching quick LB swarm to the ball. I can't stand Bill Parcels and his lingering negative effects on the team. Tom Landry invented or at least perfected the 4-3. It is our history and I hope our destiny. I'm pretty sure Coach Landry put some anti-3-4 pixie dust in the duct work at Valley ranch - it will never work in Dallas. You can't fight pixie dust.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I like the 3-4 because it's easier to get 2, quality OLBs, than 2, quality, 4-3 DEs

 

[Juke99]

I don't like the 3-4, never have never will. I enjoy watching defensive tackles play. I like watching quick LB swarm to the ball. I can't stand Bill Parcels and his lingering negative effects on the team. Tom Landry invented or at least perfected the 4-3. It is our history and I hope our destiny. I'm pretty sure Coach Landry put some anti-3-4 pixie dust in the duct work at Valley ranch - it will never work in Dallas. You can't fight pixie dust.

:clap2:

 

[Seven]

I don't like the 3-4, never have never will. I enjoy watching defensive tackles play. I like watching quick LB swarm to the ball. I can't stand Bill Parcels and his lingering negative effects on the team. Tom Landry invented or at least perfected the 4-3. It is our history and I hope our destiny. I'm pretty sure Coach Landry put some anti-3-4 pixie dust in the duct work at Valley ranch - it will never work in Dallas. You can't fight pixie dust.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!! Man, I wish I could post this kinda stuff.




Ok. I hate you.

 

[Zaxor]

I don't like the 3-4, never have never will. I enjoy watching defensive tackles play. I like watching quick LB swarm to the ball. I can't stand Bill Parcels and his lingering negative effects on the team. Tom Landry invented or at least perfected the 4-3. It is our history and I hope our destiny. I'm pretty sure Coach Landry put some anti-3-4 pixie dust in the duct work at Valley ranch - it will never work in Dallas. You can't fight pixie dust.

I agree with this post

 

[Rogerthat12]

I only like the 3-4 when it actually produces results

Truthfully, Pitt runs it properly with less vested, our 3-4 is simply ineffective allowing bombs, Running backs, TE's, WR's to run wild all over the field.

Our pass rush either is ran out of the play behind the QB, does not exist, or sacks the QB on 2cnd down only to give up 20 yards on 3rd and long.

How many times are we going to see our boyz celebrate a sack when they are getting their collective arses handed to them: flexing, pounding the ground, leg raise ect...

I sure hope Spencer and Newman help but we better hope Romo with his new toys can score some points because this defense can not shut down opponents. :

 

[satam55]

blah blah blah..."it's about execution...it's about the players...any defense can be effective if the players execute.." blah blah blah...yadah yadah yadah...

I hate the 3-4.

and I hate that it forces this team to choose from a smaller pool of coaches with 3-4 experience.

Who brought this 3-4 to us anyway?

Oh yeah, I ain't too fond of him either

OK..I feel better now.

AGREED! I NEVER WANTED US TO MOVE THE 3-4 Defense. The whole time Parcells was here I was hoping to god that he wouldn't move us to 3-4 defense, but sure enough he eventually did!:bang2:

The only reason Jerry hired that Joke of a Head Coach A.K.A Da Big Doofus A.K.A Wade Phillips is because the stupid 3-4 defense.

Hopefully Jerry uses common sense and moves us back to a 4-3 defense this off season.

I guarantee this team would be better off with Norv Turner as a head coach than Wade. At least we would have had Ron Rivera running our 4-3 defense and Jerry would NOT be stepping over Norv like he does Wade.

 

[satam55]

I like the 3-4 because it's easier to get 2, quality OLBs, than 2, quality, 4-3 DEs

I disagree!

 

[Biggems]

Tom Landry invented the 4-3....that alone is the reason the Cowboys should be running the 4-3. We went to 8 SBs, won 5 of them, and had a ton of success with the 4-3.

With the 3-4, we have had a little bit of success, but we can't seem to get the proper personnel for the scheme. We have been using this defense for like 4-5 years, and yet we still have not gotten all the pieces for it yet. That is pathetic. It is horrible drafting and FA signing. It is horrible preparation. It is inexcusable to take all this time and not be able to find all the pieces.

I would be so happy if we went back to the 4-3. However, no one wants my 4-3 lineup. IMO, my lineup puts the best players out there on the field all at once.

Base 4-3
OLB Ware/Burnett
DE Ellis/
DT Ratliff/Bowen
MLB James/Thomas
DT Tank/Spears
DE Canty/Hatcher
OLB Spencer/Carpenter

Nickel
LB Burnett
DE Ware
DT Ratliff
DT Canty
DE Spencer
LB Thomas

Dime
DE Spencer
DT Spears
LB James
DT Canty
DE Ware

 

[theebs]

so spencer and ware are going to play olb in a 4-3?

okay.

If we could stop the run we would be fine.

 

[Biggems]

I like the 3-4 because it's easier to get 2, quality OLBs, than 2, quality, 4-3 DEs

Quality 4-3 DEs?

Ware
Spencer
Ellis
Canty
Ratliff


We have 5....Hatcher and Bowen would probably do better in 4-3 as well.

Ware can be a DE and OLB in our scheme....he is that damn good. He can be on both sides too, move him around. Heck, even make him MLB on occasions to really jack with the other teams offenses.

 

[Biggems]

so spencer and ware are going to play olb in a 4-3?

okay.

If we could stop the run we would be fine.

Yes, and we would stop the run just fine. Ware is great against the run. But also, being on the same side with Ellis and Ratliff, he would be open to come clean to the QB.....and blow some stuff up.

 

[theebs]

Yes, and we would stop the run just fine. Ware is great against the run. But also, being on the same side with Ellis and Ratliff, he would be open to come clean to the QB.....and blow some stuff up.

So the exact same players in a different alignment are going to have better results? And with two of them out of place at OLB, are best pass rushers to boot?

Sorry dont see it at all.

and parcells gave in to this whiny group of players in 06 and let zimmer run his 4-3 against detroit. Ware looked great coming off the edge with his hand on the ground, the rest of the guys looked exactly the same.

 

[Biggems]

So the exact same players in a different alignment are going to have better results? And with two of them out of place at OLB, are best pass rushers to boot?

Sorry dont see it at all.

and parcells gave in to this whiny group of players in 06 and let zimmer run his 4-3 against detroit. Ware looked great coming off the edge with his hand on the ground, the rest of the guys looked exactly the same.

I can see how many would want Ware at DE. Actually, I would want Ware at both OLB, MLB, and both DE throughout the game. I would like to move him around a lot, just to give the offense a lot to think about. I think it would help Ware become even more dominant and it would help with any blitzes we may want to run.

 

[theebs]

I can see how many would want Ware at DE. Actually, I would want Ware at both OLB, MLB, and both DE throughout the game. I would like to move him around a lot, just to give the offense a lot to think about. I think it would help Ware become even more dominant and it would help with any blitzes we may want to run.

If we went to a 4-3 ware and spencer would both be ends and you are taking away some of wares abilities by putting his hand down.

It is maddens football, you cant just stick guys at linebacker because it suits your purpose. They would both be ends in a 4-3 and carpenter and burnett would be outside backers here with thomas in the middle, leaving no role for james one of the best tacklers on the team.

We are a 3-4 team, deal with it. Its not going to change anytime soon. A couple of areas need improvement, but not enough to sacrifice moving people out of position to play a new scheme.

We will have this scheme as long as Demarcus Ware is a Cowboy and he isnt going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Biggems]

If we went to a 4-3 ware and spencer would both be ends and you are taking away some of wares abilities by putting his hand down.

It is maddens football, you cant just stick guys at linebacker because it suits your purpose. They would both be ends in a 4-3 and carpenter and burnett would be outside backers here with thomas in the middle, leaving no role for james one of the best tacklers on the team.

We are a 3-4 team, deal with it. Its not going to change anytime soon. A couple of areas need improvement, but not enough to sacrifice moving people out of position to play a new scheme.

We will have this scheme as long as Demarcus Ware is a Cowboy and he isnt going anywhere anytime soon.

theebs you are very closeminded.....please dont ever coach. BTW, I dont even play Madden....


The bolded area is so offbase. You put players where you want them in order to best get the results you want. We can put Ware all over the front 7, well maybe not at DT, but we can everywhere else. It would definitely add huge dimensions to our defense.

Let's say we have 60 defensive snaps (Ware's alignment)

ROLB - 6
RDE - 23
MLB - 2
LDE - 23
LOLB - 6

I would prefer him to play more OLB, but I understand that we need him more at DE. I would still start him off at OLB in some games, and DE in others. Just so it is harder to gameplan for him.

If Spencer could ever get healthy and stay that way, we could do the same type of thing with him, except no MLB duty.

Also, maybe 2-3 times a game we could stack one side of the line with Ware, Spencer, and Ratliff.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I love the 3-4 in general, but there always seems something that stymies Dallas when we run it compared to teams like the Steelers and Ravens. I think usually the problem has been the DE's and probably the ILB. The DE's just don't do much against the pass, even when we played the standard 2 gap scheme under Parcells. Belichick plays a similar scheme that we used under Parcells and their DE's are far more effective rushing the passer.

Now we are using more 1 gap (or similar gap responsibilities) and shooting gaps and once again, the DE's are not effective against the pass. I think it's alright to have one starting DE that's not effective against the pass if he's very good against the run (Spears), but to have two is probably a no-no (although Canty hasn't been good against either).

The ILB has been a problem since we've lacked that more of a dynamic player at each position. I like Bradie and I like Zach, I just think together they are a bad mix. Teams run out on the edges against us and in the past they could just throw at the ILB's all day long (although this year that hasn't been a problem).

I'm not a big fan of the 4-3 because I think it's generally harder for a team to find a really good 4-3 DE that can rush the passer. Plus, you can move the OLB's around in the 3-4 and get some mismatches that you want. I also believe that Ware rushes the passer much better standing up than with his hand in the dirt.

I hope that someday this defense will get to the point where it probably should be, but I'd go with a 1-1-9 defense if it was good.





YAKUZA

 

[WoodysGirl]

Dallas is transitioning from 3-4 defense version 1.0. It took about two years to fully transition to a roster of 3-4 players. In order to perfect the 3-4, you continue to upgrade the overall talent.

I think it would be a mistake to think that converting back to a 4-3 would not mean the 'boys would suddenly change from a middle of the pack defense.

Converting back to a 4-3 would require another two years to make an effective transition.

And just an aside, the biggest thing I think needs to be done is just continue getting players and preferably playmakers. Regardless of the scheme, the team definitely need dynamic playmakers.

From where this team was in 2003 to now is amazing. Just gotta keep at it. Success comes with consistency.