I think Choice and Barber are both out of here

[craig71]

But the point is, why does the staff need to be trusted to dig up some unknown, unproven 3rd team RB who may not even be worhtwhile when we already have someone who we know is, at the least, an outstanding 3rd team RB, a solid 2nd team RB, and is capable of handling 1st team duties if needed?

What we know, or atleast think we know, just really doesn't matter. It's the staff's decision, period. Besides, they have all the necessary information to make an informed decision on the matter. Information the we, as fans, simply do not possess. Choice may simply not grade out as well other options. Choice may be a headcase behind the scenes. Choice may be the best thing since sliced bread and is simply not getting a fair shake by the staff. We simply do not have the proper information, information that is reliable; not heresay.

Bottom line is, what is the point of getting rid of someone just for the sake of getting reid of them, knowing the liklhood of finding an equal replacement out of the pool of undrafted FA's is slim to none?

In my opinioin it has more to do with roster flexibilty and roster management than anything alse. I think the staff sees Choice as a 3rd back option and in their mind see a 3rd back as someone that needs to contribute in other areas, namely special teams.


Craig

 

[Stash]

Didn't we just have an entire draft dedicated to special teams players not long ago?

You had to go and bring that up!

 

[Big D]

I 100% agree with you on that comment, but others will disagree and blame it on golf and the direction he wears his cap.

IMO, if he can get the jump fade down with any one of those targets (Dez) we become unstoppable.

I hear you. We've got options on top of options in that regard. Dez , RW, Miles, Witten, Bennett. Rediculous!

 

[Stautner]

I don't see the level of disparity you see in what Choice brings to the table as a RB versus what someone like Tanner brings. Add to that the intangibles of another team captain and locker-room plus in Tanner, the writing is on the wall that Choice will be one of the final cuts on the roster unless there is an injury in camp to one of the others.

First, I don't even know who Tanner is. That probably says something. I assume he is one of the UDFA's I've been referring to, which also says something, and if that's the case the obvious disparity is we have one guy who is completely unproven at the NFL level, and was not deemed draft worthy, and another guy who has at least been a solid NFL RB when he has had the chance. If we had 2 guys with an NFL track record on top of Choice I could see Choice being more expendable, but as it is we will be going into the 2011 with a starting RB who hasn't carried the bigger share of the load at RB since he was in high school, and another who is an unproven rookie. I don't see that going with an unproven, undrafted free agent as the 3rd RB is really much of a safety net, whereas Choice at least has some track record that provides more of a comfort level.

What we know, or atleast think we know, just really doesn't matter. It's the staff's decision, period. Besides, they have all the necessary information to make an informed decision on the matter. Information the we, as fans, simply do not possess. Choice may simply not grade out as well other options. Choice may be a headcase behind the scenes. Choice may be the best thing since sliced bread and is simply not getting a fair shake by the staff. We simply do not have the proper information, information that is reliable; not heresay.






In my opinioin it has more to do with roster flexibilty and roster management than anything alse. I think the staff sees Choice as a 3rd back option and in their mind see a 3rd back as someone that needs to contribute in other areas, namely special teams.


Craig

So, your point is that since not a single poster on here gets to make the decisions instead of the coaching staff then nobody should post anything that differs from what the coaching staff is doing?

I don't get the ridiculous comments about it's the coaching staff that matters. Do you not realize that the only reason this website exists is for people to discuss their thoughts and opinions, even if they don't mirror those of the coaching staff?

I'm expressing my opinions in a discussion format on a website designed specifically for such discussion. I am not suggesting that I have any authority to impose my beliefs on the team.

If you want to refrain from posting any thoughts or opinions that don't match exactly with what the team is doing, that's your choice - it's not mine.

 

[Nirvana]

First, I don't even know who Tanner is. That probably says something. I assume he is one of the UDFA's I've been referring to, which also says something, and if that's the case the obvious disparity is we have one guy who is completely unproven at the NFL level, and was not deemed draft worthy, and another guy who has at least been a solid NFL RB when he has had the chance. If we had 2 guys with an NFL track record on top of Choice I could see Choice being more expendable, but as it is we will be going into the 2011 with a starting RB who hasn't carried the bigger share of the load at RB since he was in high school, and another who is an unproven rookie. I don't see that going with an unproven, undrafted free agent as the 3rd RB is really much of a safety net, whereas Choice at least has some track record that provides more of a comfort level.

Tanner is a guy I posted about a few posts up in the thread. He was invited to the Ranch pre-draft and is the likely guy we plan to bring in to camp. It's a name worth learning about as odds are he is your 3rd RB on this team. The fact he was another team captain for his team is a huge clue that Garrett wants this guy on the roster. He also used to play defense and excelled on special teams, and noted as a good pass blocker (unlike Murray, a huge point.)

Rookie RBs have been doing quite well in this league of late, there is quite a bit of upside in going with this kid whereas Choice is a special teams liability and nothing special running the ball, not to mention pass blocking or receiving.

 

[Stautner]

Tanner is a guy I posted about a few posts up in the thread. He was invited to the Ranch pre-draft and is the likely guy we plan to bring in to camp. It's a name worth learning about as odds are he is your 3rd RB on this team. The fact he was another team captain for his team is a huge clue that Garrett wants this guy on the roster. He also used to play defense and excelled on special teams, and noted as a good pass blocker (unlike Murray, a huge point.)

Rookie RBs have been doing quite well in this league of late, there is quite a bit of upside in going with this kid whereas Choice is a special teams liability and nothing special running the ball, not to mention pass blocking or receiving.

We invite tons of players to camp every year. That doesn't make them likely to make the team.

That said, if Tanner comes into camp and knocks everyone's socks off, the deal changes a bit, but as we sit today, sight unseen, no NFL history, not worth a draft pick by a single NFL team, there is no way to reasonably project that he can fill Choice's shoes.

 

[craig71]

So, your point is that since not a single poster on here gets to make the decisions instead of the coaching staff then nobody should post anything that differs from what the coaching staff is doing?

Not at all. I do however think that sometimes people think that know more about the workings of an NFL franchise than the actual staff though.

I don't get the ridiculous comments about it's the coaching staff that matters. Do you not realize that the only reason this website exists is for people to discuss their thoughts and opinions, even if they don't mirror those of the coaching staff?

We can discuss our opinions until the cows come home and that is fine. Ultimately though, the final decision lies with the staff though.

I'm expressing my opinions in a discussion format on a website designed specifically for such discussion. I am not suggesting that I have any authority to impose my beliefs on the team.

I never said that you did or didn't.

If you want to refrain from posting any thoughts or opinions that don't match exactly with what the team is doing, that's your choice - it's not mine.

I fail to see how my opinion on Choice aligns with what the team actually thinks since there has been no decision made as of yet. For all I know, they make keep Choice. Which would fit your agenda, not mine.


Craig

 

[Stautner]

Not at all. I do however think that sometimes people think that know more about the workings of an NFL franchise than the actual staff though.

Where did I say anything about the workings of an NFL franchise? This comment is out of the blue and pointless to the discussion.

We can discuss our opinions until the cows come home and that is fine. Ultimately though, the final decision lies with the staff though.

Yeah, so? What's the point? Even the most unreasonable poster isn't deluded enough to think he gets to make the decisions instead of the coaches, so this is pointless to the discussion.

If you want me to dig out a definition of discussion, I will be happy to do so, but i will tell you that having the authority to make the decision on how to handle a situation is not a prerequisite to having a discussion about it.

I fail to see how my opinion on Choice aligns with what the team actually thinks since there has been no decision made as of yet. For all I know, they make keep Choice. Which would fit your agenda, not mine.

Craig

Right, you are stating opinions, which is fine, and which is what i am doing. The difference is no one is discounting your opinon because you can't make the decision for the coaches. To even bring that up is, once again, pointless to the discussion.

 

[Nirvana]

We invite tons of players to camp every year. That doesn't make them likely to make the team.

That said, if Tanner comes into camp and knocks everyone's socks off, the deal changes a bit, but as we sit today, sight unseen, no NFL history, not worth a draft pick by a single NFL team, there is no way to reasonably project that he can fill Choice's shoes.

We invite 30 players (4 of the players we drafted were part of that 30) and he was one of about 5 RBs invited, and the other 4 were all drafted. Tanner was drafted yesterday by the UFL, so that shows he's considered a top prospect. Add to that he grew up in Dallas and it's probably his childhood dream to play for the Cowboys, an intangible you would like in addition to the fact he was a team captain.

It will of course come down to camp - he'll need to perform as predicted by both the staff and myself. Based on what he did in college, I think he'll make the grade and be our 3rd RB after Jones and Murray. The biggest reason is he will be a special teams ace unlike Choice who doesn't even take the field.

Tidbits:

"Middle Tennessee State RB Phillip Tanner has received interest from the Denver Broncos, Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets and Pittsburgh Steelers, reports Bo Marchionte, of NFLDraftBible.com.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=705023#ixzz1LK5n3sGi"

"Middle Tennessee senior running back Phillip Tanner, a standout in the classroom and on the field, has been named to an elite group of 106 student-athletes nominated for the Allstate AFCA Good Works Team (R) as announced by the American Football Coaches Association and Allstate Insurance Company today. The award honors college football players who make outstanding contributions in the areas of volunteerism and civic involvement."

http://www.wgnsradio.com/mtsu-senior-running-back-phillip-tanner-named-to-allstate-afca/8538/

"Tanner was looked upon as an undrafted free agent but his stock appears to be on the rise after a good pro day. A number of teams, including Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Denver, Houston and the New York Jets have shown interest. Tanner is scheduled to travel to Dallas this week for a visit with the Cowboys.

Teams are rather intrigued by Tanner’s uniqueness both on and off the field. He married his college sweetheart Devin Tanner at an early age, and the couple has two children. He also has a female agent in Christina Phillips.

“I was raised by a strong woman in my mother,” he said. “I am a firm believer that a strong woman can do anything that a strong man can do. My wife and agent are two strong women that are my supporting cast and backbone.”

Big C’s scouting report

The 5-foot-10, 210-pound Tanner is a compact power back who finishes off runs with authority. He has breakaway speed and plays faster the than the time clock (4.5/40) would indicate. He’s a one-cut runner who can make tacklers miss for big gains. He shows good peripheral vision, runs through arm tackles, moves the pile in short yardage situations and is tough to bring down. He’s an aggressive blocker picking up the blitz, rarely fumbles and respectable return man in the kicking game. Tanner is a high character guy who is well respected by teammates.

Lateral movement, transitioning into and out of cuts, footwork and quickness are areas in need of improvement.

Tanner’s versatility and ability to be an effective runner on the perimeter and between the tackles would make for a nice change-of-pace back in the pros."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blog...2011/04/03/big_c_scouting_the_bengals_rb.html

 

[Stautner]

We invite 30 players (4 of the players we drafted were part of that 30) and he was one of about 5 RBs invited, and the other 4 were all drafted. Tanner was drafted yesterday by the UFL, so that shows he's considered a top prospect. Add to that he grew up in Dallas and it's probably his childhood dream to play for the Cowboys, an intangible you would like in addition to the fact he was a team captain.

It will of course come down to camp - he'll need to perform as predicted by both the staff and myself. Based on what he did in college, I think he'll make the grade and be our 3rd RB after Jones and Murray. The biggest reason is he will be a special teams ace unlike Choice who doesn't even take the field.

Tidbits:

"Middle Tennessee State RB Phillip Tanner has received interest from the Denver Broncos, Houston Texans, Kansas City Chiefs, New York Jets and Pittsburgh Steelers, reports Bo Marchionte, of NFLDraftBible.com.

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/gnews.php?id=705023#ixzz1LK5n3sGi"

"Middle Tennessee senior running back Phillip Tanner, a standout in the classroom and on the field, has been named to an elite group of 106 student-athletes nominated for the Allstate AFCA Good Works Team (R) as announced by the American Football Coaches Association and Allstate Insurance Company today. The award honors college football players who make outstanding contributions in the areas of volunteerism and civic involvement."

http://www.wgnsradio.com/mtsu-senior-running-back-phillip-tanner-named-to-allstate-afca/8538/

"Tanner was looked upon as an undrafted free agent but his stock appears to be on the rise after a good pro day. A number of teams, including Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Denver, Houston and the New York Jets have shown interest. Tanner is scheduled to travel to Dallas this week for a visit with the Cowboys.

Teams are rather intrigued by Tanner’s uniqueness both on and off the field. He married his college sweetheart Devin Tanner at an early age, and the couple has two children. He also has a female agent in Christina Phillips.

“I was raised by a strong woman in my mother,” he said. “I am a firm believer that a strong woman can do anything that a strong man can do. My wife and agent are two strong women that are my supporting cast and backbone.”

Big C’s scouting report

The 5-foot-10, 210-pound Tanner is a compact power back who finishes off runs with authority. He has breakaway speed and plays faster the than the time clock (4.5/40) would indicate. He’s a one-cut runner who can make tacklers miss for big gains. He shows good peripheral vision, runs through arm tackles, moves the pile in short yardage situations and is tough to bring down. He’s an aggressive blocker picking up the blitz, rarely fumbles and respectable return man in the kicking game. Tanner is a high character guy who is well respected by teammates.

Lateral movement, transitioning into and out of cuts, footwork and quickness are areas in need of improvement.

Tanner’s versatility and ability to be an effective runner on the perimeter and between the tackles would make for a nice change-of-pace back in the pros."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/blog...2011/04/03/big_c_scouting_the_bengals_rb.html

[URL="http://www.goblueraiders.com/content.cfm/id/32560"] [/URL]

Wow, do you really think you are helping your case by saying that by being passed over in 7 rounds of the NFL draft, then becoming a 5th round pick in the UFL draft that means he is considered a top NFL prospect?

Or is the fact that he was a good student and a good guy who does volunteer work that makes him a top NFL propsect?

Face it, he's just one of the leftovers that has enough talent to get a long shot as a free agent. 6th and 7th rounders are long shots, so it's ridiculous to suggest that the odds are that a guy nobody even saw fit to draft is gooing to make the team. If those were the odds somebody would have drafted him.

And it's ridiculous to project that guy that nobody saw fit to draft, and who is competely unknown and untested at the NFL level as being a better player than a guy who has already had at least moderate success runnnig the ball in the NFL. Obviously it's possible that could be the case, because undrafted free agents sometimes pan out, but you can't project it. If you could project it he wouldn't have been passed over by every NFL team.

 

[Nirvana]

Wow, do you really think you are helping your case by saying that by being passed over in 7 rounds of the NFL draft, then becoming a 5th round pick in the UFL draft that means he is considered a top NFL prospect?

Or is the fact that he was a good student and a good guy who does volunteer work that makes him a top NFL propsect?

Face it, he's just one of the leftovers that has enough talent to get a long shot as a free agent. 6th and 7th rounders are long shots, so it's ridiculous to suggest that the odds are that a guy nobody even saw fit to draft is gooing to make the team. If those were the odds somebody would have drafted him.

And it's ridiculous to project that guy that nobody saw fit to draft, and who is competely unknown and untested at the NFL level as being a better player than a guy who has already had at least moderate success runnnig the ball in the NFL. Obviously it's possible that could be the case, because undrafted free agents sometimes pan out, but you can't project it. If you could project it he wouldn't have been passed over by every NFL team.

You act like 7 rounds to go unselected is a big deal. Drafts used to have 30 rounds in the 50s and its the NFLPA that negotiated it down to 7 for the CBA so that players had more power in choosing where they play.

It's not a lot of selections to fill up needs and round out a 53 man roster, particularly when the roster spot you are looking to fill is a 3rd stringer.

Face it, Tashard Choice, while showing skill at running the ball at times over his career comes up short in important areas like pass blocking, receiving, and special teams. The big wildcard though is the Head Coach has a certain profile he likes in guys, and Choice doesn't fit it. He complains, moans, gets autographs from opposing players, doesn't play special teams, screwed up the first game of the season with a fumble, was a T.O. sympathizer, has harped on Romo, and his class clown antics in the locker room isn't what Garrett is about at all. It flew with Wade, not with Jason.

 

[craig71]

Where did I say anything about the workings of an NFL franchise? This comment is out of the blue and pointless to the discussion.

You didn't. I merely stated my opinion that people often seem to think that they know more than a NFL franchise. If my intent was to include you in that comment I would have said so. Do you not get the impression that people often think they no what transpires behind closed doors? I read enough empty remarks to come to that conclusion (JJT, Mosley etc.).

Yeah, so? What's the point? Even the most unreasonable poster isn't deluded enough to think he gets to make the decisions instead of the coaches, so this is pointless to the discussion.

You know what the point is, any and all discussions concerning this franchise are pointless. Why are they pointless? Because no matter how healthy the debate may have been, in the end it will have no bearing on what eventually happens as we have no control in that process.

If you want me to dig out a definition of discussion, I will be happy to do so, but i will tell you that having the authority to make the decision on how to handle a situation is not a prerequisite to having a discussion about it.

Depends on what side of the fence you are on and what day it is, one day that might just be true while on another it couldn't be further from the truth.

Right, you are stating opinions, which is fine, and which is what i am doing. The difference is no one is discounting your opinon because you can't make the decision for the coaches. To even bring that up is, once again, pointless to the discussion.

If you belive that I am discounting your opinion or anyones for that matter I apologize. What I am doing is questioning the information that is available to us in drawing our individual opinions.


Craig

 

[Stautner]

You didn't. I merely stated my opinion that people often seem to think that they know more than a NFL franchise. If my intent was to include you in that comment I would have said so. Do you not get the impression that people often think they no what transpires behind closed doors? I read enough empty remarks to come to that conclusion (JJT, Mosley etc.).

So, you quoted me, and made this comment in direct response to my words, yet it's unreasonable that I would think you were including me? Okay, gotcha.

You know what the point is, any and all discussions concerning this franchise are pointless. Why are they pointless? Because no matter how healthy the debate may have been, in the end it will have no bearing on what eventually happens as we have no control in that process.

No, I don't understand the point because you are typing your words on a website that is populated soley by fans who cannot make decisions on behalf of the team, and that exists for the express purpose of discussing thoughts and opinions.

If your comment were relevent this entire website would be shut down because nobody can live up the the standard of being in a position to make decisions for the team. That's not what the point of this site is, therefore the comment is pointless.

Depends on what side of the fence you are on and what day it is, one day that might just be true while on another it couldn't be further from the truth.

So, we are just resorting to jibberish now? Discussion is not restricted or exclusive to, at any time, those with authority to make decisions on the matter.

If you belive that I am discounting your opinion or anyones for that matter I apologize. What I am doing is questioning the information that is available to us in drawing our individual opinions.

No, you didn't say we might not know everything, you just said it doesn't matter what we say because we can't make the decision anyway.

That's not what this website is for - it's for discussion and thoughts and opinions, and dismising the discussion based on the fact that we aren't decision makeers within the Cowboys organization goes completely against what this website is all about.

 

[craig71]

So, you quoted me, and made this comment in direct response to my words, yet it's unreasonable that I would think you were including me? Okay, gotcha.

Think what you want. If I would have meant it that way I can assure you I would have made it plain and clear.

No, I don't understand the point because you are typing your words on a website that is populated soley by fans who cannot make decisions on behalf of the team, and that exists for the express purpose of discussing thoughts and opinions.



If your comment were relevent this entire website would be shut down because nobody can live up the the standard of being in a position to make decisions for the team. That's not what the point of this site is, therefore the comment is pointless.

I never said there was anything wrong with open discussion on this forum. I did say that in the end they were pointless because those discussions have no bearing as to what actually happens.

So, we are just resorting to jibberish now? Discussion is not restricted or exclusive to, at any time, those with authority to make decisions on the matter.

Jibberish you say. This discussion has been jibberish for quite sometime now say I.

No, you didn't say we might not know everything, you just said it doesn't matter what we say because we can't make the decision anyway.

I belive I did say that we lacked the necessary information to make an informed decision on the matter of Choice.

That's not what this website is for - it's for discussion and thoughts and opinions, and dismising the discussion based on the fact that we aren't decision makeers within the Cowboys organization goes completely against what this website is all about.

So I take it that now you have appointed yourself as the "discussion police". I swear officer that wasn't my intent. I do think that you are reading into my comments to an extent and seeing something that may not necessarily be there. Anyway, i've got fish to fry and a buttermilk pie that needs to be taken care of officer.



Craig

 

[Stautner]

Think what you want. If I would have meant it that way I can assure you I would have made it plain and clear.





I never said there was anything wrong with open discussion on this forum. I did say that in the end they were pointless because those discussions have no bearing as to what actually happens.





Jibberish you say. This discussion has been jibberish for quite sometime now say I.





I belive I did say that we lacked the necessary information to make an informed decision on the matter of Choice.



So I take it that now you have appointed yourself as the "discussion police". I swear officer that wasn't my intent. I do think that you are reading into my comments to an extent and seeing something that may not necessarily be there. Anyway, i've got fish to fry and a buttermilk pie that needs to be taken care of officer.



Craig

Anytime you quote me and post comments immediately after quoting me, I'm going to assume the comments related to my post rather than assume you just quoted me randomly for no reason whatsoever. I'm funny that way I guess.

Now, if you weren't discounting the discussion based on the participants not being able to make the decisions for the Cowboys, then what exactly was the point of saying it doesn't matter what we say because it is the staff and not us that makes the decision? If the point was just to make an incredibly pbvious statement that served no purpose in the context of the discussion, I guess i'll just take it for what it is.

Actually, it is you that is being the discussion police. I'm touting open discussion on an open forum, and you are saying our discussion doesn't matter since we can't make the decisions for the Cowboys.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I would love to be in a coaches and fo office meeting when they are talking about Choice.

I would just love to know what they really feel about him and why.

It seems as though they have a problem with him.

I don't think it is just that one play vs Washington.

I don't know if it is his ST play or lack of.
I don't know if they feel he is not good a pass protection.
I don't know if they feel he is not serious enough.

Maybe it is none of those things, maybe it is one or more.

Whatever it is it sure does seem like they don't trust him.

When hearing Jerry talk about Murray I got the impression we might consider taking another back because for some reason I got the feeling he was talking about the possible short comings of both Marion and Choice.

I kept waiting for them to take another RB late on Saturday but they did not.

 

[Stautner]

I would love to be in a coaches and fo office meeting when they are talking about Choice.

I would just love to know what they really feel about him and why.

It seems as though they have a problem with him.

I don't think it is just that one play vs Washington.

I don't know if it is his ST play or lack of.
I don't know if they feel he is not good a pass protection.
I don't know if they feel he is not serious enough.

Maybe it is none of those things, maybe it is one or more.

Whatever it is it sure does seem like they don't trust him.

When hearing Jerry talk about Murray I got the impression we might consider taking another back because for some reason I got the feeling he was talking about the possible short comings of both Marion and Choice.

I kept waiting for them to take another RB late on Saturday but they did not.

I agree - I'm curious as well. I'm not like a lot of guys who think Choice is a great player being held back, and I recognize pass blocking and ST's aren't strengths, but I certainly believe he has done enough to earn more of a chance to compete for playing time. It's pretty clear though that the team has a lesser opinion. Not sure why.

 

[craig71]

Anytime you quote me and post comments immediately after quoting me, I'm going to assume the comments related to my post rather than assume you just quoted me randomly for no reason whatsoever. I'm funny that way I guess.

I can respect that and can understand your reasoning. Once again though, that wasn't my intent.

Now, if you weren't discounting the discussion based on the participants not being able to make the decisions for the Cowboys, then what exactly was the point of saying it doesn't matter what we say because it is the staff and not us that makes the decision? If the point was just to make an incredibly pbvious statement that served no purpose in the context of the discussion, I guess i'll just take it for what it is.

I'm not trying to discount anything. Why would I read this board if I didn't appreciate the content? If I truly were discounting the discussions, this particular discussion(between you and I) would have closed long ago.

Actually, it is you that is being the discussion police. I'm touting open discussion on an open forum, and you are saying our discussion doesn't matter since we can't make the decisions for the Cowboys.

I'm saying in the end the discussion doesn't matter since it doesn't effect the eventual outcome. I have not said anything about censoring anyone have I? Have I called anyone stupid or misguided as of late that I am not aware of? Have I kicked ones dog? If ever the day comes that I knowingly call for someone to shut up because I don't believe in or respect their opinion I'll leave this site because I don't deserve to be a part of it. Until then, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject and there is no sense in beating the proverbial horse to death any longer.



Craig

 

[Chocolate Lab]

So we already know that Reshard Lee 2.0 is better than Choice?

Or for that matter, Lonyae Miller?

That's funny.