I think Choice and Barber are both out of here

[Stautner]

Nothing that I know of, but people talk about him being a lockerroom problem, or that JG doesn't like him for some reason.

All I know is that the Choice that I see on the field is a good RB to have on the roster.

I hope we keep him.

That's what I see. It's funny how none of the people (and there seem to be many) who talk about Choice being a problem never have any - not a shred - of backup for it. No foundation at all.

There have been several threads the last several weeks that contained considerable discussion about Choice. In each there have been a number of people who have talked about him being a complainer and a distraction and a lockerroom problem, and in each I have repeatedly asked for a foundation for that claim. Until today nobody has come up with a single thing to support their claim, and the person that threw out something today could only come up with a quote where, upon being asked by the media how he felt about not playing much, Choice basically said it's hard not playing much when you feel you can contribute. Is that really the foundation for claiming he is a problem child?

 

[Stash]

Nothing that I know of, but people talk about him being a lockerroom problem, or that JG doesn't like him for some reason.

All I know is that the Choice that I see on the field is a good RB to have on the roster.

I hope we keep him.

That sums it up very nicely and succinctly.

I agree.

 

[Hostile]

You seem to figure out and no pretty much everything. So have at it.

Well, I do know the difference between "no" and "know."

I'd "have at it" if I was remotely interested. I'm not.

 

[Hostile]

I wouldn't have a problem adding Devine in some manner but going with just those three - given each player's injury history - would have me concerned.

With that group I think you'd almost need to carry four running backs.

Naw. Do what we do best, throw it.

 

[Stash]

Naw. Do what we do best, throw it.

Oh I expect plenty of that already!

But I did notice that several of the top passing teams made moves to strengthen their running games via the draft.

The Saints trading for Ingram, the Colts adding linemen and a running back, and the Pats adding linemen and backs as well.

I think even the best passing teams like to have a solid running game as well.

 

[Derinyar]

That's what I see. It's funny how none of the people (and there seem to be many) who talk about Choice being a problem never have any - not a shred - of backup for it. No foundation at all.

There have been several threads the last several weeks that contained considerable discussion about Choice. In each there have been a number of people who have talked about him being a complainer and a distraction and a lockerroom problem, and in each I have repeatedly asked for a foundation for that claim. Until today nobody has come up with a single thing to support their claim, and the person that threw out something today could only come up with a quote where, upon being asked by the media how he felt about not playing much, Choice basically said it's hard not playing much when you feel you can contribute. Is that really the foundation for claiming he is a problem child?

So you have closed locker room, closed practice field, or meeting room evidence to present? That's the problem with this. If Choice is being a problem, which quotes from the owner and over all lack of PT indicate he could be, we wouldn't see/know about it until it hits the open areas where the media can report on it.

All either side has is speculation on the whole Choice issue. He had a good stretch of games at the end of the season 3 years ago, wouldn't say any were great games, but they were solid. He basically had the same stats as Felix in the Indy game last year other then one long run. And to be honest talking about a great running game against Indy is kinda like claiming to be the tallest midget.

There's a very real chance that the correct answer to our RB issues isn't on the roster right now. If you really want to pick on RB to get more touches based on results right now it would have to be Jones, the most productive per touch back the last couple of years.

 

[Big D]

This will not be popular. I'd rather keep Barber than Choice.

Me too.

Would you give Barber the ball on 4th and goal at the 1?

No, I'd throw it high to Bennett, Dez, or Roy personally.

More than anything I want to see us run fade routes with these sky scrapers.

Romo needs to work on that fade. That and the quick slant are his weakest points IMO.

Naw. Do what we do best, throw it.

I think this is it. As much as I dislike it, the days of 3yds and a cloud of dust and ball control are gone. We now pass to set up the run instead of the other way around. That's just todays NFL. We don't really need a back that can carry the ball 20-30 times per game because in JG offense we simply are not going to rely on our run game.

 

[Nirvana]

So, who would be the 3rd RB? Are we going to ank on an unproven 3rd rounder and an unproven undrafted free agent to back up, and/or share time with Felix?

That's got to be the plan and I would guess the 3rd RB is Phillip Tanner, who visited the Ranch pre-draft (the only RB who is still not drafted who did visit). He was just drafted yesterday by the UFL, but as that pays half as much as making an NFL practice squad, I'm sure we've let him know that he has a future with the team and a great chance to make the roster. It certainly helps that Dallas is his hometown and likely favorite team.

Some info on the kid:

5-11 HT
208 WT
4.57 40 time

"Round 5: RB PHILLIP TANNER, MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE: A rookie, Tanner is coming off a senior season in 2010 in which he ran for 928 yards and 13 touchdowns and caught 21 passes for 194 yards. He ran for 150 yards and a touchdown against Florida Atlantic, and ran for three touchdowns against Austin Peay. Tanner ran for 714 yards and 15 touchdowns in 2008."

http://www.courant.com/sports/football/hc-colonials-draft-caps,0,30387.story

"RB Phillip Tanner has been a touchdown machine during his career. He enters his final collegiate game with 34 total TDs, the fifth-highest total in school history, after reaching the end zone twice against the Golden Panthers on Dec. 4." - The Sports Xchange

Probably one of the more important notes (given his likely 3rd RB role) is this from scout.com which shows he can play special teams (having played on defense earlier is a huge plus - not afraid to tackle):

"2006: Played in all 13 games as a true freshman ... Competed on special teams and as a nickel back on defense ... Had 16 total tackles on the year including a sack and a tackle for loss ... Played eight snaps on special teams in the opening win over FIU ... Was in on three special teams plays at Maryland ... Moved to the secondary the week of the Tennessee Tech game due to so many injuries ... Had two tackles and played a total of 32 plays in win over TTU (19 on defense) ... Returned the second half kickoff 61 yards to setup the Blue Raiders' first touchdown against TTU and earned a "winning performance" on defense and special teams by the coaches ... Had one tackle in 18 snaps (15 special teams) at Oklahoma ... Registered three tackles, a tackle for loss, and a sack in shutout win over North Texas ... Added one stop against Louisville ... Had one tackle and returned two kickoffs for 47 yards against Louisiana-Monroe ..."

http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=8&c=1&nid=2705085


I watched part of this highlight vid and what jumps out first of all is that Middle Tennessee played a pro-style offense with shotgun formations and 3 or 4 WR sets. Tanner looks to have a good burst, breaks tackles and makes cutbacks. He comes out of the backfield and catches the ball with good YAC.

[youtube]olYhvsfdSso[/youtube]


And for icing on the cake, Tanner was a team captain for Middle Tennessee and was voted such by his teammates. This is a Garrett type guy.

 

[Hostile]

Oh I expect plenty of that already!

But I did notice that several of the top passing teams made moves to strengthen their running games via the draft.

The Saints trading for Ingram, the Colts adding linemen and a running back, and the Pats adding linemen and backs as well.

I think even the best passing teams like to have a solid running game as well.

Well, it's like this for me man. I never assume guys are going to get injured. Injuries happen because it is a vicious game. I would rather keep Barber than Choice because of blitz pickups. I would rather keep Chapas over Gronkowski, (even though he is a fellow UA Alum) if he can pickup blitzes better. Murray is noted as one of the best guys in this draft for that. I'm going to assume he will play all 16 just as I am for every player on the roster. I don't believe you ever plan for injuries. I believe you have to overcome them.

In my opinion having Devine as a 3rd down option and Special teams return man is more valuable than Choice who does not do returns and is a liability in blitz pickup. That is why he may be on the hot seat with Garrett. Football coaches genuinely hate that stuff. I know. I've been screamed at a time or two and I've seen plenty of other guys screamed at too.

I am a cruel taskmaster. I run a RB until his gas tank is empty and I move on. That is why I don't mind moving on from Barber even though he is one of my favorite players of the last decade. I love that he won't talk to the media. I love that guys fear him. I love that he fires his teammates up. I love that he never trashes anyone. That's a man to go to war with.

On the field, Choice has been sturdy, but I cannot ignore the blitz pickups. I cannot ignore the lack of a role in Special Teams. That is why I'd take Devine if we have the chance.

 

[Hostile]

Romo needs to work on that fade. That and the quick slant are his weakest points IMO.

I 100% agree with you on that comment, but others will disagree and blame it on golf and the direction he wears his cap.

IMO, if he can get the jump fade down with any one of those targets (Dez) we become unstoppable.

 

[craig71]

So, who would be the 3rd RB? Are we going to ank on an unproven 3rd rounder and an unproven undrafted free agent to back up, and/or share time with Felix?

I don't know that answer, we will just have to have faith in the staff on that one.

If it were my decision though, I would cut Barber as his production doesn't match his contract. I would trade Choice for a conditional 6th. round pick that could appreciate in value if certain incentives were met. I figure Choice is entering the last year of his contract so I might as well get something for him. That leaves Felix, Murray and Miller plus whatever UDFA are brought in to compete. I would think that Murray and Felix could split time with Felix getting the bulk of 3rd down plays since I would trust his blitz pickup over Murray.Miller or whoever lands the #3 spot could pick up a few carries and most importantly needs to be a special teams contributor. There is some concern about injury(Felix/Murray) but that is part of the game. I think the main thing is to have an improved O-line, better line play will make any stable of backs look much better than they actually are.I don't mind taking the gamble with a young, albeit unproven lineup. Keep in mind that they went with Barber and two rookies not that long ago. Ofcoarse my opinion doesn't really matter, the staff might go in a totally different direction and most likely will do just that.


Craig

 

[The Quest for Six]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...defensive-tackle-running-back-in-free-agency/

Fox said he’d also like to address running back and cornerback in free agency. The team especially needs a runner to pair with Knowshon Moreno.

Denver will address the running back situation in free agency, since John Fox has a relationship with Jerry Jones and the fact that Garrett doesn't seem to trust Choice and his lack of special teams play, I wonder if Choice could be traded to denver for a draft pick at some point..

 

[Stautner]

I don't know that answer, we will just have to have faith in the staff on that one.

If it were my decision though, I would cut Barber as his production doesn't match his contract. I would trade Choice for a conditional 6th. round pick that could appreciate in value if certain incentives were met. I figure Choice is entering the last year of his contract so I might as well get something for him. That leaves Felix, Murray and Miller plus whatever UDFA are brought in to compete. I would think that Murray and Felix could split time with Felix getting the bulk of 3rd down plays since I would trust his blitz pickup over Murray.Miller or whoever lands the #3 spot could pick up a few carries and most importantly needs to be a special teams contributor. There is some concern about injury(Felix/Murray) but that is part of the game. I think the main thing is to have an improved O-line, better line play will make any stable of backs look much better than they actually are.I don't mind taking the gamble with a young, albeit unproven lineup. Keep in mind that they went with Barber and two rookies not that long ago. Ofcoarse my opinion doesn't really matter, the staff might go in a totally different direction and most likely will do just that.


Craig

But the point is, why does the staff need to be trusted to dig up some unknown, unproven 3rd team RB who may not even be worhtwhile when we already have someone who we know is, at the least, an outstanding 3rd team RB, a solid 2nd team RB, and is capable of handling 1st team duties if needed?

Bottom line is, what is the point of getting rid of someone just for the sake of getting reid of them, knowing the liklhood of finding an equal replacement out of the pool of undrafted FA's is slim to none?

 

[Nirvana]

But the point is, why does the staff need to be trusted to dig up some unknown, unproven 3rd team RB who may not even be worhtwhile when we already have someone who we know is, at the least, an outstanding 3rd team RB, a solid 2nd team RB, and is capable of handling 1st team duties if needed?

Bottom line is, what is the point of getting rid of someone just for the sake of getting reid of them, knowing the liklhood of finding an equal replacement out of the pool of undrafted FA's is slim to none?

2 words: special teams.

 

[Stash]

2 words: special teams.

Isn't Murray supposed to be making a big contribution on special teams?

Would he fill that imaginary quota of running backs on special teams?

 

[Stautner]

2 words: special teams.

These two words would make sense if all else were pretty equal, but given the likely disparity between what Choice brings to the table as a RB, and what an undrafted, unproven FA would bring, I don't see special teams as being enough of a reason. With Murray being an unproven rookie, and Felix having never carried a major load in either the NFL or college, it makes sense to me to keep Choice at least one more year as insurance

 

[KJJ]

Barber will be released and the Cowboys will attempt to trade Choice once we have a new CBA I've been saying this for months.

 

[Nirvana]

Isn't Murray supposed to be making a big contribution on special teams?

Would he fill that imaginary quota of running backs on special teams?

See first post regarding Murray. His future contribution on special teams is questionable, based on owner JJ's comments.

 

[Muhast]

Isn't Murray supposed to be making a big contribution on special teams?

Would he fill that imaginary quota of running backs on special teams?

Exactly. Also how many other teams use their 3rd rb as often as we do? And do those teams use their 3rd RB on ST as well? The truth is, b/c of Barber hitting the wall, and Felix being hurt often, we use Choice more than most other teams.

Didn't we just have an entire draft dedicated to special teams players not long ago?

 

[Nirvana]

These two words would make sense if all else were pretty equal, but given the likely disparity between what Choice brings to the table as a RB, and what an undrafted, unproven FA would bring, I don't see special teams as being enough of a reason. With Murray being an unproven rookie, and Felix having never carried a major load in either the NFL or college, it makes sense to me to keep Choice at least one more year as insurance

I don't see the level of disparity you see in what Choice brings to the table as a RB versus what someone like Tanner brings. Add to that the intangibles of another team captain and locker-room plus in Tanner, the writing is on the wall that Choice will be one of the final cuts on the roster unless there is an injury in camp to one of the others.