I think the defense will be better than expected

[manster4ever]

I appreciate the optimism but I just don't have the same take right now. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but my expectations are currently low.

There is no play maker at WDE and I think this defense needs one to succeed. The 3 Tech lost a good one in Hatcher, and as of right now Melton has not jumped off the tape in my eyes. In other words, losing Ware and Hatcher was a blow to this defense, a defense that was already dead last in the league.

And then losing Sean Lee. I don't see anyone filling those shoes. McClain is a question mark, and how will he handle pass coverage? That's going to hurt bad as shown in previous games where LBers get their butt kicked in the passing game. Hitchens is not ready, and he is no Sean Lee in the future either.

The loss of Scandrick for the first four games is huge and is going to be exposed. Can Sterling Moore and B.W. Webb pick up the slack? No.

What this season can do is develop the young guys and make it more clear what we have to build with. Guys like Dixon and Lawrence, maybe Hitchens, these guys could give me some hope that next year will be different. Right now, I don't expect things to be different.

But there are factors that can hit a team which maybe makes things get magical, and that unknown will keep things always interesting. Who knows what this team can do with a fully inspired and motivated bunch of guys. Hoping for the best.

fair post. Honestly, I don't know how anyone with a brain and/or ounce of impartiality can see it any differently right now. We are horrible on D'.

 

[Bluestang]

It is not you, it is them.

Dues are up at the end of the month.

Sincerely,

The Snark Patrol

LOL, whatever. That's a realist for you.

 

[jazzcat22]

Right. It can be looked at two ways. Your way and the right way.

Any rational fair evaluator knows this defense is less talented. That's what happens when you lose Ware, Hatcher and Lee.

Let me repeat this...how does anyone know they will be less talented....any rational person would know this. I don't think you're such a great "evaluator" of talent any more than I am. So my way could be the right way.
They could and may seem less talented, but they could play better, if all stay healthy.

 

[Setackin]

the defense has not gotten worse it might not even be average but its not worse

How is it not worse when the 3 best players (by far) are gone... true the defense wasn't good with them, but that just speaks to how bad the rest of this "Defense" is.

To be clear I'm speaking of Lee Ware and Hatcher.

 

[CCBoy]

My critics eye suggests this will be a poor defense. It could be better than last year and still be bad.

My heart - which most of you will not believe - hopes for a pleasant surprise. That this defense doesn't struggle and can make a significant stop at just the right time enough so this isd a play-off team.

Because as much as I hope, I cannot see this team being anything but one shoot-out after another.

If Romo were to go down early and for the season, this will be a team destined for a top four pick, I believe.

But there is always hope. Hope has a way of taking unrealistic chances and breathing in a breath of suspense.

I think the best I can hope for is this is a suspenseful season for the defense.

I'll hang in there with you, Buddie.

 

[Risen Star]

Let me repeat this...how does anyone know they will be less talented....any rational person would know this. I don't think you're such a great "evaluator" of talent any more than I am. So my way could be the right way.
They could and may seem less talented, but they could play better, if all stay healthy.

I know this is the how do you know portion of the season for you.

We know. I don't need to wait and see if Jeremy Mincey can be DeMarcus Ware or Justin Durant can be Sean Lee.

 

[Idgit]

I'm still failing to see how Terrell McClain is some sort of secret superstar in the making.

In college he had 7.5 sacks and 17 TFL in a 4 year span. There are players with much better talent coming out of the draft that have his career totals in one year.

In the NFL he didn't do anything at all, 1 sack and 21 tackles in 3 years.

That's a total of 7 years with nothing to hang your hat on. That's not NFL quality talent. That's worse than a JAG. That's garbage bin shopping for players because you have no cap space.

I know he got some good reviews in OTAs, but the DL and OL are not even in pads, so OTAs isn't really something to get excited about since there is no contact.

And then his training camp has been non existent because he had a high ankle sprain.

McClain can be head and shoulders better than Hayden, but anyone could look at Hayden during the SD game and tell that he was completely overmatched. And the sad part is that he only played one series. Topping it all off, the team is willing to bring in Brent, who hasn't played a year of football because we all know why, to take Hayden's job.

Melton and Crawford are your two guys that have legit starting talent on a DL, and that's even going out on a limb on Crawford because he lacks NFL experience.

Did I mention they are both coming of a significant injury that still causes some lingering issues even after that first year back?

I'm trying to be positive here but there really isn't a guy that you can really rely on in this DL group.

Dallas doesn't really have a track record under JG that shows us castoffs will turn into gold here. The Marinelli claims are borderline crazy with what was being touted in the offseason.

The defense has been a disaster in training camp, and although they can better than last years group, the camp reports don't really suggest that do they?

I'd start by saying I don't think people expect McClain to be a superstar in the making. They hope and expect he'll be better than Hayden was last year, based off of OTAs and, largely, because xwalker took the time to look at some tape and thinks he looks promising and has done a nice job of saying so in many of the DL threads.

Other than that, I'd say the phrase 'better than expected' doesn't exactly set the bar too high, given expectations. Be careful not to fall into the trap where--because people characterize a player or position group so often as *not* being superstar or Super Bowl ready--you conclude that people *are* actually saying that. Otherwise, you end up in the Ben-Bass trap like we saw earlier in the week where people were trying to snarkily link to opinions that never actually existed and then had to pretend they were just to busy to find their support, after all.

This defense is going to be bad. It's been bad for years. We didn't do enough to improve it. The only real question is how bad. In the case of this thread, the OP thinks it won't be as bad as advertised. But note just how far out on the limb he was wiling to go:

"It will be a struggle without Scandrick for 4 games, but after that I think they can be a decent defense if no more big injuries occur."
​

In other words....'can be a decent defense with everybody back and no more big injuries' = not very far out on that limb.

 

[CCBoy]

Who on this d can you legit call a building block? I say zero. With Lawrence my only hope .

Mo I can't trust.
Lee is great in theory.
Carter I loved inte draft but he checks out mentally.

Let me tell you 'bout Ahab The Arab
The Sheik of the burning sand
He had emeralds and rubies just a dripping offa him
And a ring on every finger of his hands
He wore a big ol' turban wrapped around his head
And a scimitar by his side
And every evenin' about midnight
He'd jump on his camel named Clyde...and ride
Spoken
Silently through the night to the sultan's tent where he would secretly meet up with Fatima of the Seven Veils, the swingingest number one dancer in the Sultan's whole harem, 'cause, like him and her had a thing going, you know, and they'd been carrying on for some time now behind the Sultan's back and you could hear him talk to his camel as he rode out across the dunes, his voice would cut through the still night desert air and he'd say [imitate Arabic speech], which is Arabic for, "Stop,Clyde”! And Clyde’d say, [imitate camel voice],Which is camel for " What the heck did he say anyway?"!
Well…he brought his camel to a screeching halt
In the rear of Fatima's tent.
Jumped off Clyde, snuck around the corner and into the tent he went.
There he saw Fatima, laying on a Zebra skin rug,
With rings on her fingers and bells on her toes
And a bone in her nose ho, ho.
Spoken
There she was, friends and neighbors, laying there in all her radiant beauty. Eating on a raisin, and a grape, and an apricot, a pomegranate, a bowl of chitterlings, two bananas, three Hershey bars, and sipping on a "ROC" Co-Cola, listening to her transistor, watching the Grand Ole Opry, and reading Mad magazine while she sung, "Does Your Chewing Gum Lose it's Flavor?" And Ahab walked up to her and he’d say [imitate Arabic], which is Arabic for, "Let's twist again like we did last summer, baby" [giggles]. And she’d say [coy, girlish laugh] "Crazy baby"!
[Background singers] Turn around, turn around, turn around, turn around , turn around.
All of a sudden, the Sultan walked in.
Ahab knew that this was the end.
Him and Fatima was caught by surprise,
And the Sultan had fire flashing outta his eyes.
Well, the Sultan charged at Ahab, intending to make a dent…in his head.
But he fled with Fatima, and out of the tent they went.
They jumped on Clyde and started to ride,
Cutting out across the sand,
With the Sultan’s whole army in hot pursuit…on and on they ran.
Spoken
Well, to make a long story short, they got away, cause there weren’t no animal alive what could keep up with Clyde once he got started. Cuz he was the swiftest steed on the whole desert, babies. And they made it across the border, where he had hocked all his rubies and emeralds and they bought ‘em a swinging little split-level pad and lived happy ever after.
Yeah, and that's the story 'bout Ahab the Arab
The Sheik of the Burnin' sand
Ahab the Arab
The swinging Sheik of the burnin' sand.



No, not exactly the same as a trip to the old burn barrel...

 

[CCBoy]

So they'll be 31 instead of 32?

How old are your Senior NCO's?

 

[Idgit]

Let me repeat this...how does anyone know they will be less talented....any rational person would know this. I don't think you're such a great "evaluator" of talent any more than I am. So my way could be the right way.
They could and may seem less talented, but they could play better, if all stay healthy.

I think it's fair to say that they might be less talented, but play better disciplined football. It might be fair to say that we expect fewer injuries this season, and so could end up keeping more talent on the field than we did last season, overall. I have a hard time saying we could take away Lee, Hatcher, Ware, Lawrence, and Scandrick for all or part of the season and expect that we'll be a more talented unit, overall.

That doesn't mean I'm sure we're going to be worse on defense than we were last year. I'm hoping we play better as a unit, overall, and are more consistent. That some of the players we had last season continue to improve (Claiborne, Wilcox, Holloman, whoever), and we end up with solid-but-unspectacular play. That's a slippery slope when you try to define talented. Risen's, of course, going to try to paint that picture negatively to make the case that some fans are exaggerating so he can tell us how much he doesn't ever exaggerate. Others are going to try to explain how losing Sean Lee might actually be a good thing, or whatever. Personally, I think what I've said before: we're very weak in terms of talent, and we're not getting the breaks I'd like to see in camp in terms of everybody playing together. Each day that goes by this way has us more dependent on a hail-mary outcome of hoping to get our guys back and hoping to get them coordinated and playing together well enough to be consistent. That looks fairly unlikely to me, but you never know.

The good news is, we've got an offense capable of carrying this team for a while, and we do have some guys on defense who could deliver once they're incorporated. As has been said before, even as bad as we were defensively most of last year, a play or three in a game or three and we're at least qualifying for the playoffs.

 

[Bluestang]

I'd start by saying I don't think people expect McClain to be a superstar in the making. They hope and expect he'll be better than Hayden was last year, based off of OTAs and, largely, because xwalker took the time to look at some tape and thinks he looks promising and has done a nice job of saying so in many of the DL threads.

Other than that, I'd say the phrase 'better than expected' doesn't exactly set the bar too high, given expectations. Be careful not to fall into the trap where--because people characterize a player or position group so often as *not* being superstar or Super Bowl ready--you conclude that people *are* actually saying that. Otherwise, you end up in the Ben-Bass trap like we saw earlier in the week where people were trying to snarkily link to opinions that never actually existed and then had to pretend they were just to busy to find their support, after all.

This defense is going to be bad. It's been bad for years. We didn't do enough to improve it. The only real question is how bad. In the case of this thread, the OP thinks it won't be as bad as advertised. But note just how far out on the limb he was wiling to go:

"It will be a struggle without Scandrick for 4 games, but after that I think they can be a decent defense if no more big injuries occur."
​

In other words....'can be a decent defense with everybody back and no more big injuries' = not very far out on that limb.

At this point he could just step on the field and be better than Hayden. That's all he has to do.

And that's the point, the defense is fielding this kind of garbage.

 

[Idgit]

At this point he could just step on the field and be better than Hayden. That's all he has to do.

And that's the point, the defense is fielding this kind of garbage.

Hey, you're not going to find me arguing in favor of how talented we are on defense. I'm sick and tired of watching it, frankly. We've stunk for too long on that side of the ball, and we've done too little to address it. And the things we have done--like hiring Monte Kiffin--have been strange.

I'm just saying, I don't think anybody's really very high on our defensive prospects. Some people are (rightly) pointing out that there are players there who have some potential. And others are taking the dead-cat-bounce approach of saying we won't be as bad as all that. But we're still looking at a high-water mark of 'decent.'

 

[ConstantReboot]

I feel you xwalker. I'm hoping and praying that this defense is gonna be better than last year. But I have my doubts. There are too many question marks. However, I believe that once one player starts to become successful and starts to implement the advantages of this scheme, its going to have a snowball effect. Then all the pieces will start to fit and those players which were questionable, will start being productive.

I just think this defense needs a spark or two. They need to get healthy and get there players to play up to par. If not, its going to be a very long season for this defense. Good part is though, they don't have to play Denver. I also wonder why the Cowboys play New Orleans two years in a row. Strange.

 

[TheDude]

All you need for a quality defense is players better than Nick Hayden and Jeff Heath.

2 ply tissue paper > 1ply tissue paper. But neither are effective if soaking wet before use

 

[TheDude]

It is not you, it is them.

Dues are up at the end of the month.

Sincerely,

The Snark Patrol

What enforcement powers do you have to collect?

 

[CCBoy]

Idgit, nice set for a perspective...and expanding some on your directions - how high were expectations on Jason Hatcher before he became the 'Old Man in the Sea?'

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Honest question- is there a team out there which has less proven talent on defense than ours?.

I don't know but I bet all of the people that liked your question think they know the answer to it.

 

[CCBoy]

I feel you xwalker. I'm hoping and praying that this defense is gonna be better than last year. But I have my doubts. There are too many question marks. However, I believe that once one player starts to become successful and starts to implement the advantages of this scheme, its going to have a snowball effect. Then all the pieces will start to fit and those players which were questionable, will start being productive.

I just think this defense needs a spark or two. They need to get healthy and get there players to play up to par. If not, its going to be a very long season for this defense. Good part is though, they don't have to play Denver. I also wonder why the Cowboys play New Orleans two years in a row. Strange.

Lord knows that's the status in the linebacker group. I'm hoping that Renaldo McClain starts this unit into action.

 

[CCBoy]

I think it will be worse than expected. One cannot underestimate the lack of talent on this defense. It is REALLY bad.

Please explain without yawning...

 

[Setackin]

I know this is the how do you know portion of the season for you.

We know. I don't need to wait and see if Jeremy Mincey can be DeMarcus Ware or Justin Durant can be Sean Lee.

Lol.

I don't get y ppl don't understand this. Yes, every team is different year to year, BUT there is no reason to believe this "defense" will even be as good as last year...