I would trade Zack Martin for a 1st and 2nd

[dallasdave]

 

[dallasdave]

Dayum!

Would you eat it if was part of the deal?

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Only if the 1st and 2nd belonged to Cleveland.

LLLOOLLL, know they will be first.

 

[stiletto]

Martin is one of the best players in the NFL, no way Dallas trades him, not for Two # 1's and a 2nd rounder.

Uhh...sorry you do that trade for a Guard all day... especially if it is anyone in the top 10 that is likely to remain there a few years...

 

[Ddisco22]

You wouldn't sign the guy who solidified our line and is arguably the best at his position in football? LOL. Glad you aren't the GM sir. Like I get it obviously. But losing Martin would destroy this line.

Agree 100% one of the best in football, see n Dam need him.
No way I'd trade for a draft pick.

 

[ksg811]

Because that is what they are paid? You can jigger contracts to fit certain years. Most teams do. First year cap hits are usually very reduced. Second years as well. With the bulk being in later years.

The timing of cap hits don't indicate true contract values.

So people who are interested in actual contract values do. Try it, you may understand things a little better.

Average annual value isn’t what they get paid, though. You can sign someone to a 5/50million contract with 20 million guaranteed structured with a 1st year $5 million dollar roster bonus and 1 million base salary with 7 million dollar base salaries in year 2-4 and $30 million in year 5. Cut him after Year 3 and his AAV is still 10 million but was only paid 20 million over 3 years with cap hits of 6m, 7m, and 7m, well below his contract average.

It’s admittedly an extreme example just to prove a point, but it still shows that using AAV as a baseline is flawed. Because the cap can be so easily manipulated, it makes AAV useless in these comparisons.

 

[BlindFaith]

Average annual value isn’t what they get paid, though. You can sign someone to a 5/50million contract with 20 million guaranteed structured with a 1st year $5 million dollar roster bonus and 1 million base salary with 7 million dollar base salaries in year 2-4 and $30 million in year 5. Cut him after Year 3 and his AAV is still 10 million but was only paid 20 million over 3 years with cap hits of 6m, 7m, and 7m, well below his contract average.

It’s admittedly an extreme example just to prove a point, but it still shows that using AAV as a baseline is flawed. Because the cap can be so easily manipulated, it makes AAV useless in these comparisons.

Use whatever you want. If you want to value a player on their cap hit, go for it.

And this is the exact reason why fans blow a nut when they see cap hits. Cap hit is a manufactured number to fit players into the cap.

Average value represents what the true nature of the contract is.

So using your example, is the player a 5 mill a year player in year 1 and a 30 mill player year 5? Or is he a 10 mill a year player?

 

[ksg811]

Use whatever you want. If you want to value a player on their cap hit, go for it.

And this is the exact reason why fans blow a nut when they see cap hits. Cap hit is a manufactured number to fit players into the cap.

Average value represents what the true nature of the contract is.

Except the whole concept of this post is fitting Martin into the cap along with Tyron, Frederick as highly paid linemen and Collins also being well paid.

Average cash is irrelevant. Owners make money hand over fist so cash paid is just an operating expense. The cap is what constricts roster building and is the finite resource that needs to be analyzed.

 

[BlindFaith]

Except the whole concept of this post is fitting Martin into the cap along with Tyron, Frederick as highly paid linemen and Collins also being well paid.

Average cash is irrelevant. Owners make money hand over fist so cash paid is just an operating expense. The cap is what constricts roster building and is the finite resource that needs to be analyzed.

I was responding to someone saying that NE was paying more for linemen.

I've never said that cap values aren't important, they clearly are. I'm saying don't use a cap value for a specific year to be indicative of a players actual contracted value.

 

[buybuydandavis]

For a 1st and 2nd, I'd trade anybody on the team! Sign me up

Generally, anyone no longer on their free agent contract.

The value in the draft picks comes not just from the players you're able to pick, but because those picks will be on their rookie contracts.

If you have to pay free agent money for a player, you're not getting much of a deal anymore. That's the market price.

 

[vaturkey]

 

[MistyAnn]

Its an interesting idea, I think I'd be for paying the line though, nothing worse than a shakey line.

 

[Beaker42]

Hear me out....

Zack is one of my fave Cowboys but....he's playing hardball and will want a ridiculous contract.

We cant have all our cap dollars tied up in linemen, I wouldn' sign him anyway for the contract he wants so why not throw some trade bait out there

1st and 2nd or two 1sts...whatever

Agreed

 

[cern]

No one is giving up a first and second for Martin.

Unless they are at the end of the round.

You really have no way of knowing that. He is the best at his position in the nfl.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Hear me out....

Zack is one of my fave Cowboys but....he's playing hardball and will want a ridiculous contract.

We cant have all our cap dollars tied up in linemen, I wouldn' sign him anyway for the contract he wants so why not throw some trade bait out there

1st and 2nd or two 1sts...whatever

Well yes of course. Martin is a guard.

 

[Bleedblue1111]

Name a time when a team traded away the best player at his position in the league so that best player in the league would be playing against that team instead of for them. Teams don't get better trading away the best player at their position they get worse.
.

Herschel Walker?

If they did trade Martin, I'd so want the same results.

 

[BlindFaith]

Its an interesting idea, I think I'd be for paying the line though, nothing worse than a shakey line.

Yes, having a good line is important. So is having a good secondary, good line backers good backups.

If you have X amount of money to spend, you first decide where you want to spend it. That is a philosophical decision.

Some teams do spend more on the oline. Some of those teams are good, some bad.

We are spending considerably more on the oline. That money comes from somewhere.

We are cheap at QB. By far the cheapest in the NFL. We are also cheap in the secondary. We are lucky there because the guys we drafted were OK. But we are still only an average defense.

I wish we could pay everybody as much as we want. But we can't.

 

[bleachedwheat]

If you had to pick one of these trades for Martin, which one would you choose.
Trade1 Seattle P18 this years draft and Earl Thomas for Zack Martin
Trade2 San Francisco P9 and one of their guards like Zane Beadles for Zack Martin

Seattle has been trying to free up cap space this off season and are getting rid of big name players to do so. Their line has been one of the worst over the past couple seasons and I could see them doing this trade. You can draft a guard at 19 and a LB or DT at 18 or move Collins back to guard and draft a RT. It saves a lot of money next year and gives you space to sign Thomas who will be about 6 Million cheaper per year than Martin; could use that 6M to sign the two 1st round rookies.

San Francisco has the cap space to do this trade and have a plethora of guards on their roster, none of them are Martin though. They could stay put and try to trade up to get Nelson but they want to keep their other draft resources. They have a lot of holes to fill and this would fill a need and they would retain their other draft capital. Cowboys could get one the LB's at P9 and then draft Hernandez at 19 or try to trade up to Denver's spot and grab a sure thing in Nelson. It would probably take P50 to move up to 5.

I would do the 49ers trade especially if a trade up to get Nelson was possible. You would replace Martin with the best player in the draft and save Millions upon Millions in cap space allowing you to make a few FA moves next off season and sure up DLaw and Irvings contracts longterm. Trade back at 19 to 25 or so and draft LB LVE and pick up an extra 3rd. Then fill the other guard whole with Wyatt Teller at P81 and draft a safety with the other pick you gained from the trade back.

 

[BlindFaith]

If you had to pick one of these trades for Martin, which one would you choose.
Trade1 Seattle P18 this years draft and Earl Thomas for Zack Martin
Trade2 San Francisco P9 and one of their guards like Zane Beadles for Zack Martin

Seattle has been trying to free up cap space this off season and are getting rid of big name players to do so. Their line has been one of the worst over the past couple seasons and I could see them doing this trade. You can draft a guard at 19 and a LB or DT at 18 or move Collins back to guard and draft a RT. It saves a lot of money next year and gives you space to sign Thomas who will be about 6 Million cheaper per year than Martin; could use that 6M to sign the two 1st round rookies.

San Francisco has the cap space to do this trade and have a plethora of guards on their roster, none of them are Martin though. They could stay put and try to trade up to get Nelson but they want to keep their other draft resources. They have a lot of holes to fill and this would fill a need and they would retain their other draft capital. Cowboys could get one the LB's at P9 and then draft Hernandez at 19 or try to trade up to Denver's spot and grab a sure thing in Nelson. It would probably take P50 to move up to 5.

I would do the 49ers trade especially if a trade up to get Nelson was possible. You would replace Martin with the best player in the draft and save Millions upon Millions in cap space allowing you to make a few FA moves next off season and sure up DLaw and Irvings contracts longterm. Trade back at 19 to 25 or so and draft LB LVE and pick up an extra 3rd. Then fill the other guard whole with Wyatt Teller at P81 and draft a safety with the other pick you gained from the trade back.

Seattle would never give up a first and Thomas. They could just draft a guard in the first. He'd be a whole lot cheaper. And they'd still have Thomas.

But, for a 4th this year and a third, maybe second next year? They might bite. If I was Seattle, I'd be for that. They would have a stud guard and could draft a safety.

We would have a stud safety, albeit older. And we could draft a guard. Not going to be at Martin's level for a couple years, if ever. But we'd have a couple extra picks too.

It's a win win if you ask me.

 

[atlantacowboy]

well...if we trade him...forget the post season this year..He is that much of a difference maker.

But he's not. We can get by with the ron learys of the world for a lot less. Zach doesn't score TDs. He doesn't shut down opposing offenses. He's a G and as great as he is, his impact on a game is not significant enough to make him one of our top 5 highest paid players. Its cap suicide.