If Taylor for Ellis really happened...

[AbeBeta]

He also brings a huge paycheck (almost twice the cost of Ellis), a lack of experience playing the strong-side LB position in the 3-4 and it's not really a position of need at this point. Go back to 1992, when we had no pass rushers, then it was a great move picking up Charles Haley.

On top of everything else I don't think Taylor has the drive. He's gone "Hollywood".

At twice the cost, Taylor isn't twice the player Ellis is. Not too mention that Ellis is probably better against the run at this point, and he's no slouch rushing the passer either.

First, I think that you have to look at the role each will play this year. Spencer is likely going to take many of the snaps on run plays. Both are going to be primarily used to get at the QB. And Taylor has shown again and again that he's one of the best pass rushers of the generation. Ellis had his first 10 plus sack year last year -- primarily because teams concentrated more on Ware. Taylor has averaged more than 10 sacks a year over his career.

Ellis might be a little better against the run but Taylor is just a more disruptive player -- by a wide margin.

The idea that Taylor doesn't have the drive is silly -- here's a guy who has pretty much been one of the best defensive players of the generation. Just like many of our players he has other interests. So what.

You act as though the "Hollywood" thing is bad -- that's very attractive to many teams that are looking for marketing opportunities.

Again, I doubt he ends up here but I dispute the claim that he wouldn't be a BIG upgrade. I love Ellis but Taylor is just on a completely different level.

 

[AbeBeta]

Two players at obvious need positions. A bit different than the "swap up" you're advocating.

Sean Alexander
Chris Henry (despite a need)
Daunte Culpepper
Adam Archuleta
Jevon Kearse
Isaac Bruce (despite a need)
DeAngelo Hall
Dan Morgan
Koren Robinson
Kalimba Edwards
Kevin Jones
Odell Thurman

Not to mention didn't trade up for McFadden despite 8 million rumors and guarantees he would.

That's just the 2008 off season.

And none of those guys have the marketability of a Jason Taylor.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

First, I think that you have to look at the role each will play this year. Spencer is likely going to take many of the snaps on run plays. Both are going to be primarily used to get at the QB. And Taylor has shown again and again that he's one of the best pass rushers of the generation. Ellis had his first 10 plus sack year last year -- primarily because teams concentrated more on Ware. Taylor has averaged more than 10 sacks a year over his career.

Ellis might be a little better against the run but Taylor is just a more disruptive player -- by a wide margin.

The idea that Taylor doesn't have the drive is silly -- here's a guy who has pretty much been one of the best defensive players of the generation. Just like many of our players he has other interests. So what.

You act as though the "Hollywood" thing is bad -- that's very attractive to many teams that are looking for marketing opportunities.

Again, I doubt he ends up here but I dispute the claim that he wouldn't be a BIG upgrade. I love Ellis but Taylor is just on a completely different level.

I don't see him as being as big an upgrade as you perceive.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

And none of those guys have the marketability of a Jason Taylor.

I think this team has plenty of marketability.

 

[iceberg]

Taylor doesn't fit here. It's not going to happen no matter how many speculate it will. I could see Ellis traded, but not for Taylor.

when some see a recognizable name (SOS - shiney object syndrome) they must have it because of name recognition. not fit.

gets crazy after awhile.

 

[Hostile]

And none of those guys have the marketability of a Jason Taylor.

Why? Because none of them were on Dancing With the Stars?

The marketability is the Dallas Cowboys and I would argue that DeAngelo Hall and his never shut up self promotion has as much draw. Sean Alexander is a former MVP who scored 28 TDs in one season.

You think hype couldn't be created for these guys? Seriously?

 

[Hostile]

when some see a recognizable name (SOS - shiney object syndrome) they must have it because of name recognition. not fit.

gets crazy after awhile.

Exactly. "Ooh pretty. I must have, I must have."

Fueling this is that we did sign Zach Thomas who is Taylor's brother-in-law.

 

[AbeBeta]

Why? Because none of them were on Dancing With the Stars?

The marketability is the Dallas Cowboys and I would argue that DeAngelo Hall and his never shut up self promotion has as much draw. Sean Alexander is a former MVP who scored 28 TDs in one season.

You think hype couldn't be created for these guys? Seriously?

Hype yes - but Taylor has a different TYPE of hype and a different type of marketability. Guys like Hall have a mouth that turns some people off. Taylor being a good looking, well dressed, and well spoken guy is simply going to appeal to a different population than a guy like Hall. And that's what marketing is all about -- expanding your base. I don't see Hall or Alexander having that potential .

Again, I don't support this move and I don't think it will go down. But I do see why Jerry could have an interest.

 

[Hostile]

Hype yes - but Taylor has a different TYPE of hype and a different type of marketability. Guys like Hall have a mouth that turns some people off. Taylor being a good looking, well dressed, and well spoken guy is simply going to appeal to a different population than a guy like Hall. And that's what marketing is all about -- expanding your base. I don't see Hall or Alexander having that potential .

Again, I don't support this move and I don't think it will go down. But I do see why Jerry could have an interest.

I don't.

Jerry is focused on winning it all. That means filling the holes. Sorry, but SOLB is not a hole. Not only do we already have Ellis, but a viable backup plan in Spencer. Nothing about this move makes sense.

 

[AbeBeta]

I don't.

Jerry is focused on winning it all. That means filling the holes. Sorry, but SOLB is not a hole. Not only do we already have Ellis, but a viable backup plan in Spencer. Nothing about this move makes sense.

Well, I already done explained it to you...

 

[Hostile]

Well, I already done explained it to you...

It didn't make any sense though.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

It didn't make any sense though.

That's cos you're one of those "Norman Einsteins".

 

[Hostile]

That's cos you're one of those "Norman Einsteins".

Kreskin actually. See my prediction earlier.

:wink2:

 

[Little Jr]

You guys go right on dreaming about this. It doesn't make a lick of sense, but by all means continue to delude yourselves.

Dreaming? I said it wasnt gonna happen. If I was gonna dream about something it would be more intersting than Taylor. CJ and RW with TO in a 3 WR set. LT in the back field. Merriman opposite of Ware and so on and so on.

 

[wileedog]

Does Taylor know our plays better than Ellis? That's the bottom line. It usually takes 2 years for a player to get acclimate to a new system. We don't have 2 years.

Again, Taylor has played 3-4 OLB. Its not like he is coming in cold.

Ellis was playing just fine his first year as a LBer EVER before he got hurt two years ago.

Was Zach Thomas at his age signed with the idea he is going to be productive 2 years from now?

 

[Hostile]

Again, Taylor has played 3-4 OLB. Its not like he is coming in cold.

Ellis was playing just fine his first year as a LBer EVER before he got hurt two years ago.

Was Zach Thomas at his age signed with the idea he is going to be productive 2 years from now?

He has played WOLB, not SOLB. It isn't retro fit.

 

[wileedog]

I don't see him as being as big an upgrade as you perceive.

Ellis has had one "elite" year ever, and he needed to be surrounded with a 13 Pro Bowl player cast for it to happen. Jason Taylor has consistently been there, even when playing on bad teams.

Its not a "championship!" type upgrade, but if the price is right and the cap numbers make sense, I really don't get why anyone would be opposed to this.

Do I THINK it is going happen? I have no idea. But again if you can upgrade a spot at a reasonable price why wouldn't you? And Taylor is a much better athelete than Ellis, period.

 

[wileedog]

He has played WOLB, not SOLB. It isn't retro fit.

Its also not converting to WR or something.

Taylor made the switch from DE to OLB seamlessly, I'm sure he can manage switching sides

 

[Hostile]

Its also not converting to WR or something.

Taylor made the switch from DE to OLB seamlessly, I'm sure he can manage switching sides

Thanks for your assurance. I don't agree. Coverage of TEs is not something he has ever really done and it is a primary responsibility of SOLBs.

 

[wileedog]

Thanks for your assurance. I don't agree. Coverage of TEs is not something he has ever really done and it is a primary responsibility of SOLBs.

But Ellis isn't particularly good at it. Again, I'm missing the downside, as Taylor's athleticism would lend itself to being better at it than him IMO