If you are married....

[xWraithx]

I witnessed daily marrital issues in my household growing up and I watched it tear both of my parents apart. I don't want any part of that ****.

not to mention all the problems associated with marriage... the current divorce rate, spouses cheating all the damn time, financial issues, kids, arguments, stress, etc

no thank you

 

[Faerluna]

One thing I would suggest before getting married is living together. I think that's pretty accepted these days.

The way you feel about someone over dinner at a nice restaurant or watching a movie is completely different when you're doing each other's laundry or waking up with morning breath.

Although I think we were both in love from the very beginning, it was a year before I left NY and moved to Virginia to fully commit to living with him. We got married 2 years after that.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

I witnessed daily marrital issues in my household growing up and I watched it tear both of my parents apart. I don't want any part of that ****.

not to mention the current divorce rate, spouses cheating all the damn time, financial issues, kids, arguments, stress, etc

no thank you

Now that's a rosey picture right there!

 

[xWraithx]

Now that's a rosey picture right there!

it's the world we live in, folks

 

[vta]

it's the world we live in, folks

It's not the world it's the world one makes.
Divorce rates, infidelity should have no bearing on an individuals behavior. We're all free to make our choices, as of course if marriage looks bad to you, avoid it, but there's really no need to base your life's choices on the failures of others.

Plenty of businesses fail, should a would be business owner throw in the towel? Should someone not try to be his own because others fail? Of course not.

What the next guy does means squat in whether or not you can make something work.

 

[xWraithx]

It's not the world it's the world one makes.
Divorce rates, infidelity should have no bearing on an individuals behavior. We're all free to make our choices, as of course if marriage looks bad to you, avoid it, but there's really no need to base your life's choices on the failures of others.

Plenty of businesses fail, should a would be business owner throw in the towel? Should someone not try to be his own because others fail? Of course not.

What the next guy does means squat in whether or not you can make something work.

the truth of the matter is... I'm too good for women

j/k

 

[vta]

the truth of the matter is... I'm too good for women

j/k

Then you're only other option is... dudes?
:laugh2:

 

[xWraithx]

Then you're only other option is... dudes?
:laugh2:

:laugh2: ... painted myself into a corner there

 

[CoCo]

One thing I would suggest before getting married is living together. I think that's pretty accepted these days.

The way you feel about someone over dinner at a nice restaurant or watching a movie is completely different when you're doing each other's laundry or waking up with morning breath.

Although I think we were both in love from the very beginning, it was a year before I left NY and moved to Virginia to fully commit to living with him. We got married 2 years after that.

Though quoting your post I'm not directing this at you nor confining my comment to just the iussue you raised. But I do think its an appropriate one in this discussion.

I would suggest that living together will only give you insight to today's compatability. It won't tell you how you or your mate will respond to life events further down the road. It can't...

How will each respond to having kids, or aging parents, or teens, or family tragedy, or career upheavel, or incredible financial success, or either or both discovering over time different aspects about themselves, etc. Those I believe are the real tests of marriage. I think statistics suggest that parents are most vulnerable to divorce during their kids teen years. You can't test drive that.

Dating is about exploring as many foundational issues as you can but it is such a far cry from being able to evaluate how each will respond to the realities of life waiting down the road. I suggest it will always require faith, commitment and determination.

I also want to add that marriage is not the same for all, nor should we put that expectation on our marriages to be what others tell us it should be or what someone else's experience is or was.

One last comment. Soften everything I've said here with, its been my experience. I want to always return to that and not sound definitive.

 

[CoCo]

It's not the world it's the world one makes.
Divorce rates, infidelity should have no bearing on an individuals behavior. We're all free to make our choices, as of course if marriage looks bad to you, avoid it, but there's really no need to base your life's choices on the failures of others.

Plenty of businesses fail, should a would be business owner throw in the towel? Should someone not try to be his own because others fail? Of course not.

What the next guy does means squat in whether or not you can make something work.

 

[Faerluna]

Though quoting your post I'm not directing this at you nor confining my comment to just the iussue you raised. But I do think its an appropriate one in this discussion.

I would suggest that living together will only give you insight to today's compatability. It won't tell you how you or your mate will respond to life events further down the road. It can't...

How will each respond to having kids, or aging parents, or teens, or family tragedy, or career upheavel, or incredible financial success, or either or both discovering over time different aspects about themselves, etc. Those I believe are the real tests of marriage. I think statistics suggest that parents are most vulnerable to divorce during their kids teen years. You can't test drive that.

Dating is about exploring as many foundational issues as you can but it is such a far cry from being able to evaluate how each will respond to the realities of life waiting down the road. I suggest it will always require faith, commitment and determination.

I also want to add that marriage is not the same for all, nor should we put that expectation on our marriages to be what others tell us it should be or what someone else's experience is or was.

One last comment. Soften everything I've said here with, its been my experience. I want to always return to that and not sound definitive.

I totally agree. When you consider moving in, you're just looking at the basic compatibilities. Later on, if you move toward marriage, then the conversations about big, long-term issues have to take place.

 

[lewpac]

An important thing to remember during this conversation is an old, tried & true rule that I learned to apply at a very young age: "Your experiences do not make something TRUE".

In other words, just because something went-down a certain way in MY LIFE, is in NO WAY the standard for that event to go down in anyone else's life. Especially so if that event in my life went negative.

I've read each and every post in this thread, as I have a great interest in the subject. I used to be a marriage counselor, and I personally enjoy being married very much. And I've read a fair amount of the obligatory "don't do it", "marriage sucks", "I want no part of it", etc.............due to either ones own unfortunate experience or being around a bad marriage or two. I'm not criticizing anyone who has said such stuff, just an observation. I also hear it out in the world a lot, particularly from the scorned and the divorced, the bitter and angry folks out there about a bad marriage.

But again, just because YOU had a bad meal doesn't making eating bad. Just because YOU had your luggage lost, your reservation screwed up, and an otherwise bad vacation doesn't make vacations bad. And just because something went awry or sideways in YOUR marriage doesn't make that the universal truth for all marriages.

I've been married twice. As I said earlier, my first marriage should've never even happened and was an abortion from the start. My second marriage, of which is approaching the 15 year mark with three great kids, is one of, if not THE biggest blessing in my life. Because I never gave up on the concept of a good marriage, and MY EXPERIENCE didn't set the standard for "the truth about marriage". Even during and after my divorce, which was a HUGE pain in the *** (as any divorcee' will tell you, it's a major hassle), I always knew that "it" was out there somewhere, so just keep pitching.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I see your take on the need/validation angle. I probably could have said it better, because your of course correct that it IS important to have the validation of your spouse. In general, everyone want to be liked, thought well of, respected, etc..............not only in their marriage, but the entire family and community at large. It's just human nature and certainly isn't come character failing to seek validation and acceptance.

Honestly, I was thinking of and speaking about this subject from the springboard of my first marriage. It was one of those kid-marriages. Too young, should've never been married to begin with. We were around 20 & 21 years old, and the whole mess lasted only a few years. No kids thank God, no property or holdings..........so the split was pretty easy.

But this gal!!!! EVERYTHING about her happiness, well being, satisfaction, etc............EVERYTHING was contingent upon ME. And she got nastier and nastier about it as time went by. It was ugly. It got to the point that if I didn't walk this way, talk that way, comb my hair the right way, chewed my food a certain way, etc...................If I didn't live my life according to HER dictates, then "I didn't love her" and the fight de jour would break out. Of course, it got to the point that it was just the way I had to live. I was constantly on pins and needles waiting for the next shoe to drop. I made the mistake of falling for it and psycologically found myself living my life doing NOTHING buy trying to make her happy or avoiding the next eruption.

The day I woke up and said "Enough already. This is the best your gonna' get doll. I'm DONE chasing this never-ending rabbit. No more changing or litmus tests or hoops I have to jump through"..............that day was effectively the end of our marriage. We limped on for another year or so, but HER definition of a "marriage" was now gone, and that started the divorce era. That's when I realized that, had I not woke up and made THAT announcement, that this would've went on and on forever. Because it wasn't the "things" about me she wanted me to continually re-arrange, it was the ACTUAL power trip and life she wanted. To always have something over me to ***** about. So, no matter WHAT I did to keep her happy or keep her quite, it would never be enough. She wouldn't be able to sleep at night unless she had something over me that always concluded with "You don't love me" because of whatever the issue was NOW!!

Anyway, sorry for the rant. I came out of it on the other side pretty unscathed. A few scars (literally, in the flesh) here and there, but I was young enough to just move on.

No rant at all. Many have experienced that.

An important thing to remember during this conversation is an old, tried & true rule that I learned to apply at a very young age: "Your experiences do not make something TRUE".

In other words, just because something went-down a certain way in MY LIFE, is in NO WAY the standard for that event to go down in anyone else's life. Especially so if that event in my life went negative.

I've read each and every post in this thread, as I have a great interest in the subject. I used to be a marriage counselor, and I personally enjoy being married very much. And I've read a fair amount of the obligatory "don't do it", "marriage sucks", "I want no part of it", etcA.............due to either ones own unfortunate experience or being around a bad marriage or two. I'm not criticizing anyone who has said such stuff, just an observation. I also hear it out in the world a lot, particularly from the scorned and the divorced, the bitter and angry folks out there about a bad marriage.

But again, just because YOU had a bad meal doesn't making eating bad. Just because YOU had your luggage lost, your reservation screwed up, and an otherwise bad vacation doesn't make vacations bad. And just because something went awry or sideways in YOUR marriage doesn't make that the universal truth for all marriages.

I've been married twice. As I said earlier, my first marriage should've never even happened and was an abortion from the start. My second marriage, of which is approaching the 15 year mark with three great kids, is one of, if not THE biggest blessing in my life. Because I never gave up on the concept of a good marriage, and MY EXPERIENCE didn't set the standard for "the truth about marriage". Even during and after my divorce, which was a HUGE pain in the *** (as any divorcee' will tell you, it's a major hassle), I always knew that "it" was out there somewhere, so just keep pitching.

You know what drives me crazy about that. I am around couples from time to time and to see their interaction or lackthereof is certainly not appetising for me. LOL

Or, you meet up with friends and they are newly married and you ask, so how is the wife and you get a "eh, she is a pain the a**" or something else negative. They are so unhappy.

You ask the girl, how is the husband and you get a facial expression or something similar to what I wrote above.

Man, when I find her its going to be, so how is your wife = "she is great, just got a promotion etc... etc..."

Oh and get this. I just heard about this the other day. Women throw divorce parties and guys do too.

Wait, there's more. A woman told me when she wanted out she hoped her husband found a girlfriend. She even told me that one day her friend called and told her, "yah, we are getting a divorce, he found a girlfriend"

Some wacky stuff going on out there.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

:laugh2: ... painted myself into a corner there

sure did, ***

 

[xWraithx]

sure did, ***

why is the word "man" censored?

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

why is the word "man" censored?

The filter probably realized that he was using it trying to address you

 

[xWraithx]

The filter probably realized that he was using it trying to address you

that can't be it! this filter's seen me in ways other filters have not...

 

[lewpac]

With regard to what YoMick just said.....................

An interesting phenomena that REALLY gets my attention, is that in NO other category of life or human interaction do we tolerate or put up with another person we don't like or get along with.

At work, if a co-worker is "on you" all the time, bad-mouthing you, and just plain going out of their way to make your life miserable, you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You either try to get along, report it to a superior, confront the guy, quit, etc.................but you don't just tolerate it and live in co-existence with it day after day after day.

Same with any other family member (except your spouse). Every family has a pain in the *** or two..........or more............in it. Someone who, every time they insert themselves into a situation it comes up trouble. And, YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Usually, you avoid that family member. Or you and others team-up on the guy and let him have it. Or you finally just ignore the guy. But you don't just go on and on and on dealing with the guy.

You don't pick and hang out with "friends" who cause you grief. You confront the bad neighbor on your block. Etc, etc, etc..............In no other category in life do we simply endure with and tolerate another person who is "part of the problem". No sane person actually CHOOSES to co-exist with an unreasonable and adversarial person in their lives.

Only in marriage do I see this. And I don't understand it. Why two people, who obviously do not like each other, always putting each other down, constantly harping on each other and complaining about each other and picking each other apart....................Why do they just live in that condition day after day after day? Sometimes for years? No other person on the Earth, with a nasty opinion about you, who has nothing nice to say about you.................You'd let NO other person on Earth who's opinion of you is in such a crapper live in your home.

For the life of me, I'll never understand that. If it's THAT BAD, and you've gone through all the motions to rectify if but it's not to be............if it's that bad, then just get out of it and go find someone who actually LIKES you! And I've heard THAT more times than I'd like to hear.............this idea about "But, I love him". Yeah but sweetie, you don't LIKE THE GUY. And it's obvious because all you ever do and say toward him is some nasty and bitter remark about what a dufus he is! Same with you pal, you say you "Love Her", but all I ever hear is what a ***** she is and what a pain in the *** she is!

It's usually because of some "vow" they took 15 or 20 years ago. Some "commitment guilt" thing about not "calling it a day". But there comes a point where, yeah, you make a promise years ago, but you're living in misery day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year now for a good long time. If the pixie-dust is off the thing for this long and this badly, it only is makes sense to wave the white flag and throw in the towel. Just my opinion, but ANYTHING HAS TO BE BETTER than this living hell.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

With regard to what YoMick just said.....................

An interesting phenomena that REALLY gets my attention, is that in NO other category of life or human interaction do we tolerate or put up with another person we don't like or get along with.

At work, if a co-worker is "on you" all the time, bad-mouthing you, and just plain going out of their way to make your life miserable, you DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. You either try to get along, report it to a superior, confront the guy, quit, etc.................but you don't just tolerate it and live in co-existence with it day after day after day.

Same with any other family member (except your spouse). Every family has a pain in the *** or two..........or more............in it. Someone who, every time they insert themselves into a situation it comes up trouble. And, YOU DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Usually, you avoid that family member. Or you and others team-up on the guy and let him have it. Or you finally just ignore the guy. But you don't just go on and on and on dealing with the guy.

You don't pick and hang out with "friends" who cause you grief. You confront the bad neighbor on your block. Etc, etc, etc..............In no other category in life do we simply endure with and tolerate another person who is "part of the problem". No sane person actually CHOOSES to co-exist with an unreasonable and adversarial person in their lives.

Only in marriage do I see this. And I don't understand it. Why two people, who obviously do not like each other, always putting each other down, constantly harping on each other and complaining about each other and picking each other apart....................Why do they just live in that condition day after day after day? Sometimes for years? No other person on the Earth, with a nasty opinion about you, who has nothing nice to say about you.................You'd let NO other person on Earth who's opinion of you is in such a crapper live in your home.

For the life of me, I'll never understand that. If it's THAT BAD, and you've gone through all the motions to rectify if but it's not to be............if it's that bad, then just get out of it and go find someone who actually LIKES you! And I've heard THAT more times than I'd like to hear.............this idea about "But, I love him". Yeah but sweetie, you don't LIKE THE GUY. And it's obvious because all you ever do and say toward him is some nasty and bitter remark about what a dufus he is! Same with you pal, you say you "Love Her", but all I ever hear is what a ***** she is and what a pain in the *** she is!

It's usually because of some "vow" they took 15 or 20 years ago. Some "commitment guilt" thing about not "calling it a day". But there comes a point where, yeah, you make a promise years ago, but you're living in misery day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year now for a good long time. If the pixie-dust is off the thing for this long and this badly, it only is makes sense to wave the white flag and throw in the towel. Just my opinion, but ANYTHING HAS TO BE BETTER than this living hell.

A few reasons come to mind:

1. Comfortable - even though things are bad, they know what they have and they deal with it longer than they should.

2. Security - sometimes, like above, there is security because you know the person and know what you are getting(even if its bad) but you are safe in some ways.

3. Opportunity - some people stay in situations until "something" better happens along. NOW, this goes to my point a few posts ago. The Internet/Accessibilty makes that happen sooner.



Good stuff Lewpac.

 

[lewpac]

There's a proverb or two that come to mind:

It's better to live in a corner of the roof top, than in spawling mansion with a contentious woman.

The continual contentions of a bitter woman are like cancer to a mans bones.

Vice-versa applies of course lady's, so don't get on me now...........


Maybe I'm more pre-disposed to "live in the day" than to hang-on to something that's making my life miserable. And again, I AM speaking from my own bias and experience. I commend couples who stay together for other reasons besides love. It's honorable enough I suppose. But to walk around in life with one-eyebrow and utterly defeated and negative because of LIFE AT HOME? I don't get that.

It's a cancer in life that, when your pulling up the driveway after a hard day out there in the world.................that the only thought in you mind is "What the hell is going to happen today"? That's a rotten way to live your life. Home is supposed to be where we retreat to and go to to GET AWAY fromt he daily grind and hassle. When that "grind and hassle" lives and breaths in your very home, that's just a miserable existence IMO.