Illogical Nonsense

[Chuck 54]

I do not intend to insult anyone or demean anyone's opinion or right to express it, but some of the nonsense about whom should be hired as HC of the Cowboys and the attacks on JJ as reverting to his meddling ways are beyond my scope of comprehension.

1. We have a playoff team with decent talent, a team that clearly underachieved, a team that should be fairly close to be seriously competitive. Yet people want to hire guys like Singletary and Rivera to be head coach? These are guys who have never been there...Singletary has very little coaching experience. Even Rivera has never run a defense other than the one Lovie Smith designed, a 4-3 by the way. This team is not that easily converted to a good 4-3. We have only one viable candidate with any experience for DT...Ferguson...and he has little mobility. Everyone else is a projection to the position.

At DE, we have Ellis and Ware, and all the guys behind them are oversized DE's selected specifically for the 3-4.

At LB, we have some talent, but are we sure we have 3-4 guys who run well enough to take our defense to a higher level? We could draft and use FA to rectify this, but then we're neglecting the offense and the OL yet another year.

I'm shocked by the idea that some think we'd be ready to go forward with a HC with no experience, especially those who suggest Singletary who has not coordinated either side of the ball, and people want to turn the offense over to Jason Garrett who also has very little experience and probably no offensive playbook of his own yet as a guy with 2 years as QB coach....holy crap.

If we were going to hire a defensive HC, hiring a 4-3 guy instead of Wade Phillips who has done great things in SD would be a highly questionable move.

2. Why is Jerry Jones catching so much grief for considering hiring a HC that would be great for the offense and Romo, a guy who actually has a little experience, though with far less talented teams...Norv Turner...and the most qualified and exciting 3-4 prospect in the league, also with HC experience...Wade Phillips. People want to look at their records in limited stints with inferior teams...yet they are excited about hiring guys who coach defenses that don't match our personel, guys with no HC experience, and then turn the offense over to a guy with two years a QB coach in Miami?

Jerry Jones IS the gm of the Cowboys, but people confuse that role with his position as owner...like it or not, he is both. But the reality is that the hiring of coaches and support staff, and bringing in a young guy to hopefully groom...Jason Garrett...are what gm's all across the NFL do. People talk like Rivera and Singletary are attractive candidates, yet not a single gm in the NFL who needed new coaches in Miami, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Arizona, ??? even gave Singletary an interview as far as I know....certainly he wasn't a serious candidate even in Oakland. And not a single one of those teams, several who were interested in hiring young guys with limited experience were willing to wait on Rivera...if he was all that great, don't you think some of those gm's could have waited? Would it have hurt them any more than Dallas if he was such an attractive candidate?

Come on guys...It's one thing to hire an inexperienced guy like Whizzenhunt...at least he'd been running the offensive side of the ball for a SB champion for a coach who was defensive oriented, and he showed great creativity in using guys like Randall El. But the other HC hires???? Not a single gm in the NFL wanted Singletary, and not a single gm saw Rivera as an attractive enough candidate to wait on him. He wants to be a HC...you don't think he'd even take the job in Oakland if Al Davis had waited on him?

These guys either are not ready for the job or they simply aren't that attractive to other gms, so why lambast Jerry Jones for how he's handling the situation? He's not acting as a meddling owner...he's acting in his capacity as gm, and he's not doing anything any differently than many other gm's.

3. I would support Norv or Wade more than anyone else mentioned. Wade Phillips would step in and take our 3-4 to a new level, just as he's done in SD...he'd get faster results than anyone trying to come in with knowledge limited to the 4-3 and limited experience as a DC, much less trying to do both that and oversee the team as HC. But there's no way we're going to turn our offense and T.O. over to Jason Garrett with almost no experience, not yet.

If we hire Norv, we get a great teacher of QB's, a great x's and o's guy, and a guy who's coached and called plays in the SB with great success when given talented players, which we have...a guy who isn't all that exciting, but at least has some experience as HC...and with Norv, we can turn the defense over to someone who already knows the players and the system, hopefully getting them to at least play to their capabilities with his hands untied by the defensively conservative Parcells.

We're not a team starting over and retooling. It makes more sense to bring in a guy who's at least proven in running his side of the ball and has a little experience in the HC job and in dealing with the big show in Dallas. It won't take much to get this team further than Parcells took it. Norv Turner is like any other coach...either he has success and we don't want to change two years from now, or he doesn't get us over the hump but Romo greatly benefits from his tutilage, and we're in the Cowher or some other market in two years...maybe even the Jason Garrett market.

All head coaches groom young gifted coaches, if that's what Jason is, for HC positions. It's not going to be a threat to Norv Turner...he plans to be successful in Dallas, and if he's not, part of that failure will be partly Jason Garrett's fault as well...Jason has not been guaranteed a future HC gig, and Norv is not "training him" to take over any more than Parcells, Bellichek, or Dungy have prepared guys to become HC's.

Relax...enjoy. Hiring the guys being suggested as alternates to Norv or Wade are simply ridiculous unless we were a team starting at the bottom that could afford to let a coach grow with it. Our team is somewhat close, and we need a coach who can run one side of the ball, not a young, inexperienced coach with two inexperienced coordinators under him....My gosh, the players would probably know the systems better than the coaches.

I can see not being as excited about Turner or Phillips as much as if it were Cowher, but I prefer either over most of the guys the other teams, led by their gm's, hired, and I certainly prefer it with our team right now over having 2-3 guys who would all be learning on the job.

If some of you got your wish today and Singletary were hired as HC, JG as OC, and an internal hire as DC, do you realize all three may not have much more than 10 years coaching experience all put together, and not one of them would have ever done the job he's in before? To me, that's scary.

 

[dbair1967]

you make alot of good points

David

 

[Chocolate Lab]

-- A GM's job is to hire the best man for the job, not to find someone he's comfortable working with.

-- Singletary has indeed been interviewed for HC before.

-- It's true that an inexperienced head coach could cost us first, but guys like Rivera and Singletary mainly look good compared to Norv. If we wanted to win right away, we'd probably go for Phillips. But there's no percentage in hiring a guy just because he has experience when the experience is at LOSING.

-- Even with the inexperience, I'd rather have a longer-term successful hire than a stopgap hire who in the long run is going to fail.

 

[stealth]

that was way too long for me to read in my drunken state, can I get a summary?

 

[lane]

that was way too long for me to read in my drunken state, can I get a summary?

hilarious!!

 

[theebs]

How much experience as a coordinator or assitant position coach does one have to have before they are capable to you?

I am curious...is 3 years enough?

 

[Chuck 54]

-- A GM's job is to hire the best man for the job, not to find someone he's comfortable working with.

-- Singletary has indeed been interviewed for HC before.

-- It's true that an inexperienced head coach could cost us first, but guys like Rivera and Singletary mainly look good compared to Norv. If we wanted to win right away, we'd probably go for Phillips. But there's no percentage in hiring a guy just because he has experience when the experience is at LOSING.

-- Even with the inexperience, I'd rather have a longer-term successful hire than a stopgap hire who in the long run is going to fail.

Whom did Singletary get an interview with? And if you think he'd be a good HC with so little experience coaching at all, that's your opinion, but none of the other teams hired him either, and I don't think he got interviews, certainly not with most of them, so does that make their gm's even dumber than Jerry? At least we interviewed him....not a single team cared enough about Rivera to wait and interview him...Why? What makes him a good candidate in Dallas but not anywhere else?

I'm just asking questions that seem logical to me, or at least fair to Jerry Jones. It's certainly not like the other teams hired the really good candidates...

 

[Cochese]

How much experience as a coordinator or assitant position coach does one have to have before they are capable to you?

I am curious...is 3 years enough?

Apparently 1 year is enough for the Steelers, and despite a down year, they are not in a rebuilding mode.

 

[Dale]

I actually think Phillips is the ideal candidate for the Cowboys. He's experienced, older (meaning Garrett can take over in a few years), defensive minded, and has a successful track record in this league.

Theoretically, the team hired Garrett because of his ability to do something with Romo and Co. Now, it's time to address the defense. Phillips has not only shown "capable" of overseeing a team, but he's also a tremendous defensive mind that should do wonders with that side of the ball.

Granted, he's not overflowing with playoff victories, but how many candidates are? Of the "retread" variety, I think he's clearly the most capable.

What is beyond my comprehension is why Norv Turner is being considered for any spot other than offensive coordinator, which is obviously not possible. I just do not understand why the Cowboys would want him as the head man. I think he's by far the worst candidate. At least with an "unproven" guy like Garrett or Singletary, there is some upside. We saw a young Mangini work his magic in New York.

With Norv, I just don't see anything positive other than to think the Cowboys' offense might be impressive. But he'll have to show a lot to prove his track records in Washington and Oakland are worth discarding.

Now, I won't chastise Jerry for pursuing Norv Turner. If he's hired, there will likely (justifiably) be an onslaught of criticism. But, to this point, there is no proven evidence that Turner is the direction Jerry is leaning. Who knows, Phillips could be his guy. No need to bash him for a move he hasn't even made. Again, for all anyone knows, Turner is just a courtesy interview to try to help a friend land a head coaching gig elsewhere in this league.

 

[Chuck 54]

--
-- Even with the inexperience, I'd rather have a longer-term successful hire than a stopgap hire who in the long run is going to fail.

So would I...but no one really knows who will fail and who will succeed...that's the gm's call, and plenty of other teams had shots at Singletary if they wanted him before we did.

 

[lane]

How much experience as a coordinator or assitant position coach does one have to have before they are capable to you?

I am curious...is 3 years enough?

i think if a person has a passion to coach and will coach till they pry the playbook from their dead, cold hands...

 

[superpunk]

Lots of sane points...

The willingness to take a chance IMO is basically related to the lack of good candidates. Yes, Phillips makes the most sense. I don't think Rivera makes sense with his defense, but it's possible he'd be flexible. It's just that ALL these alternatives look good compared to the monkey in the room - Norv. I see your points about him, but what he has proven, in short, is that he's a failure as HC. At least the others we don't know yet.

 

[theebs]

Whom did Singletary get an interview with? And if you think he'd be a good HC with so little experience coaching at all, that's your opinion, but none of the other teams hired him either, and I don't think he got interviews, certainly not with most of them, so does that make their gm's even dumber than Jerry? At least we interviewed him....not a single team cared enough about Rivera to wait and interview him...Why? What makes him a good candidate in Dallas but not anywhere else?

I'm just asking questions that seem logical to me, or at least fair to Jerry Jones. It's certainly not like the other teams hired the really good candidates...

Rivera interviewed in pittsburgh and arizona

Again, how much time is enough as a coordinator? is 3 years enough?

 

[smarta5150]

that was way too long for me to read in my drunken state, can I get a summary?

Phillips and Turner have been around the block and bring that experience to the table whereas the other guys like Single, Garret, Rivera, etc. lack the experience.

 

[Chuck 54]

How much experience as a coordinator or assitant position coach does one have to have before they are capable to you?

I am curious...is 3 years enough?

I think it's unrealistic to think a guy who has never been a coordinator isn't going to struggle as HC, when he hasn't had HC experience either. I think it's unrealistic to think a guy who has been nothing more than a QB coach for 2-3years is ready to run a successful offense as the main guy, when the previous top guys on the staff have already walked.

Rivera at least has the coordinator's experience...I don't see how he helps us on either side of the ball as he has not experience in the 3-4...maybe he'd be a good HC, but he'd have inexperienced coordinators too????

If Jason Garrett was actually ready to come in and run the offense, I think Norv Turner would never be considered...I think we'd hire Wade Phillips in hopes of seeing our defense get the pressure that SD gets.

 

[TunaCaserole]

I think the whole experience thing is being blown out of proportion by some.
Both Singletary and Garrett each have 12 years of experience in the league and 4 years of coaching experience. That's 16 years of NFL experience. Both were great students of the game!

I think Garrett will be great at the X's and O's. Singletary may not be as great, but he will bring the fire and enthusiasm that this team has lacked for many years. I want to see a team that comes out each and every week and leaves everything on the field -- reminiscent of the game against Indy this year. I don't expect a team to go 16-0, but I can't stand when we lose and our guys don't seem to have any heart. That's happened more than I can count over the last 10 years.

 

[Chuck 54]

Apparently 1 year is enough for the Steelers, and despite a down year, they are not in a rebuilding mode.

Do you think that was a good hire? They lost their OC and Cowher. They got a young HC who may turn out to be good for the long haul, but do you expect them to be a playoff team next season? I don't.

And let's remember that Parcells gave them a head start...they selected Tomlin without even caring to interview Singletary or Rivera????

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Singletary interviewed with Atlanta, from what I read.

And I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Experience would be better with a talented team like this, without a doubt. BUT, if the experience one HC has is one of poor discipline, lack of leadership, and LOSING, I'd rather take a chance on an inexperienced guy. After all, who was a better head coach last year, Art Shell or Eric Mangini? Joe Gibbs, or Sean Payton?

I'm all for Wade Phillips. He's a winning head coach, his specialty is exactly in what we need, and he could even get along with Jerry.

But no, let's find an old crony with a losing record because he's comfortable and he comes highly recommended by Troy Aikman.

 

[Chuck 54]

I actually think Phillips is the ideal candidate for the Cowboys. He's experienced, older (meaning Garrett can take over in a few years), defensive minded, and has a successful track record in this league.

Theoretically, the team hired Garrett because of his ability to do something with Romo and Co. Now, it's time to address the defense. Phillips has not only shown "capable" of overseeing a team, but he's also a tremendous defensive mind that should do wonders with that side of the ball.

Granted, he's not overflowing with playoff victories, but how many candidates are? Of the "retread" variety, I think he's clearly the most capable.

What is beyond my comprehension is why Norv Turner is being considered for any spot other than offensive coordinator, which is obviously not possible. I just do not understand why the Cowboys would want him as the head man. I think he's by far the worst candidate. At least with an "unproven" guy like Garrett or Singletary, there is some upside. We saw a young Mangini work his magic in New York.

With Norv, I just don't see anything positive other than to think the Cowboys' offense might be impressive. But he'll have to show a lot to prove his track records in Washington and Oakland are worth discarding.

Now, I won't chastise Jerry for pursuing Norv Turner. If he's hired, there will likely (justifiably) be an onslaught of criticism. But, to this point, there is no proven evidence that Turner is the direction Jerry is leaning. Who knows, Phillips could be his guy. No need to bash him for a move he hasn't even made. Again, for all anyone knows, Turner is just a courtesy interview to try to help a friend land a head coaching gig elsewhere in this league.

Dale, I think Norv is the proof that Jason Garrett is a smart young coach with upside, but clearly NOT a guy who's ready to run the offense...I expect Norv to run the offense and call plays despite Garrett having the title. And does anyone think Jason will do more for Romo's development than Norv?

If Garrett was truly ready, I think Wade is the top choice too...but I seriously doubt that Jason is actually ready to run the show.

 

[Dale]

Singletary interviewed with Atlanta, from what I read.

And I actually agree with a lot of what you say. Experience would be better with a talented team like this, without a doubt. BUT, if the experience one HC has is one of poor discipline, lack of leadership, and LOSING, I'd rather take a chance on an inexperienced guy. After all, who was a better head coach last year, Art Shell or Eric Mangini? Joe Gibbs, or Sean Payton?

You've hit the nail on the head with this comment, Chocolate Lab.

Experience is one thing. But losing experience? What's the point of that?

This is akin to a team saying, "We've got a great team. All we need is a quarterback - preferably a veteran," and then going out and signing Tony Banks.

Yeah, that's the ticket.

If that's the best option you can come up with, you might as well take a chance on a young 'un.