Illogical Nonsense

[Chuck 54]

How much NFL experience did Jimmy and company have in 89?

Had Jimmy and his staff had todays roster out of the gate, we wouldn't have waited until 92 to win it.

Hiring proven guys only means you are hiring somebody who has failed in the past, otherwise they'd still have a job.

None, but he had head coaching experience, a national title, a strong staff with him, and still went 1-15 in his first year. We have a team that shouldn't have to go through that.

 

[Chuck 54]

As for the original post, to each his own...I prefer to see a person's thought process and support for his opinions. I hate opening a thread with a title I'm interested in and read two lines, followed by a question.

That's just me...sorry to have challenged those of you who found it too long to read, shouldn't have taken more than about 90 seconds to read the entire thing. I guess I understand a reader who reads two lines and decides it's garbage and poorly written and not worth reading moreso than someone who doesn't have the "time" to read and then relies on someone else's take on the entirety.

I guess that's modern society, everything in a drive-through. I do hope you bothered to read Brain's response....it was long too, but well-thought out and responsive, as were some others. In the future, if you see my name on a thread, pass it on by because while I may respond to portions of other's posts with short opinions, I never start my own thread in 15 words without trying to explain my reasoning.

Enjoy the day....snow coming to VA Thursday

 

[cowboyed]

great post wayne_motley, my perceptions exactly. Choco, I believe Singletary should be in the equation as a DC. Our offense scored points last year but demonstrated it could not effectively compete against the better teams.

I believe Turner could bolster the offense, nurture Garrett and improve the quarterbacking, running back position and greatly bolster the Oline. I look at our coaching as an entire package with Norv being the ribbon.

 

[superpunk]

Both Singletary and Rivera have had at least two previous interviews for coaching gigs.

Reading the articles people posted about Rivera interviewing with the Rams, makes me think Jerry would not hire him. His interview didn't go well, and he didn't have good ideas about his staff. Of course, maybe that's part of the process - fail at first, but at least you know what's expected of you now. Jerry, being such a charismatic guy, won't be taken with a guy that doesn't show similar enthusiasm. Maybe rivera does, the pieces just sounded underwhelming on him.

I still think it's not the greatest idea to hire Rivera, in any case - or any coach that will change the defensive philosophy on these young players. While you should be able to go in and out of similar styles of the 3-4/4-3 (SIMILAR STYLES) being the pertinent part, you can't go from the defense we ran (poorly) to a Tampa 2, etc, without a change in philosophy, responsibility, terminology, and player type. You're better at football if you don't have to think about what you're doing. Changing things up on these guys on defense would be tough.

To me, Wade Phillips as HC or Greg Manusky as coordinator makes the most sense. Make either Sparano (we heard he's in the running, right?) or Garrett the head coach. Maybe even Singletary if he feels like being Tony Robbins.

Big changes would be terrible. Wade's system is supposedly pretty simple, so that could be handled, IMO.

HOWEVER...taking a two time loser at HC, no matter where he was at and the circumstances behind it, and saying he is the better choice at HC is a little backwards to me.

As is evident by the support for Norv, which is only based on excuses, rather than reasons to hire him. There are no reasons, it's just excuse what happened in his other stints as "beyond his control", and believe that it will magically get better because he knew Troy. It's accepted that Garrett helped Troy as much as anyone. Do we need to dedicate that much of our coaching staff to Tony Romo? Not IMO. He's not THAT guy.

Futhermore people forget that position coaches have been hired for HC before. Andy Reid is one that turned out pretty good.

The trouble with Andy is the trouble you have with so many coordinators - he makes some horrible decisions in terms of game time, and he is dedicated to what he knows, the passing game. Norv would do the same in WAshington and Oakland. Garrett....who knows? Singletary the same.

If TO is willing to do some of the silly things he did this season with Bill at the helm, and it has been noted that he tends to get worse in his second season...how in the world does anyone expect norv to be able to control him?

Just real quick - I don't think we can look at what happened in one instance and declare it a trend ie the second year thing. I just say that because it annoys me when the talking heads do it. He blew up in his second year one time, and it was due to contract negotiations. There appear to be no such problems here.

there's more I'd like to respond to, but coffee's a hell of a laxative. That's it for now.

 

[Trendnet]

Jerry Jones IS the gm of the Cowboys, but people confuse that role with his position as owner...like it or not, he is both. But the reality is that the hiring of coaches and support staff, and bringing in a young guy to hopefully groom...Jason Garrett...are what gm's all across the NFL do. People talk like Rivera and Singletary are attractive candidates, yet not a single gm in the NFL who needed new coaches in Miami, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Arizona, ??? even gave Singletary an interview as far as I know....certainly he wasn't a serious candidate even in Oakland. And not a single one of those teams, several who were interested in hiring young guys with limited experience were willing to wait on Rivera...if he was all that great, don't you think some of those gm's could have waited? Would it have hurt them any more than Dallas if he was such an attractive candidate?

I don't know... it seems to me, your entire argument is "he's only a good candidate for head coach, if he's already been hired."

Whisenhunt has been hired, he must be good.

So, since Singletary nor Rivera have NOT been hired, they must not be any good.

hmmm, I don't think I agree with this line of reasoning.

 

[CIWhitefish]

Jerry Jones IS the gm of the Cowboys, but people confuse that role with his position as owner...like it or not, he is both. But the reality is that the hiring of coaches and support staff, and bringing in a young guy to hopefully groom...Jason Garrett...are what gm's all across the NFL do. People talk like Rivera and Singletary are attractive candidates, yet not a single gm in the NFL who needed new coaches in Miami, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Arizona, ??? even gave Singletary an interview as far as I know....certainly he wasn't a serious candidate even in Oakland. And not a single one of those teams, several who were interested in hiring young guys with limited experience were willing to wait on Rivera...if he was all that great, don't you think some of those gm's could have waited? Would it have hurt them any more than Dallas if he was such an attractive candidate?

I don't know... it seems to me, your entire argument is "he's only a good candidate for head coach, if he's already been hired."

Whisenhunt has been hired, he must be good.

So, since Singletary nor Rivera have NOT been hired, they must not be any good.

hmmm, I don't think I agree with this line of reasoning.

I think what he means is that if Singletary and Rivera were such great options why has no one else gone after them? There were plenty of openings. Singletary isn't even a DC option on his current team. Why should we be so geeked to get him as our HC? No one else decided to wait on Rivera. Point he is trying to make is nothing inherently makes Singletary or Rivera better options than Norv or Wade. It's that fans are more enamoured with the unknown. The unknown is not necessarily better.

 

[BulletBob]

Two points:

1. To Wayne's original point, those of you belly-aching about Jerry not waiting to interview Rivera: if Jerry is the moron GM you make him out to be, then there are at least 3-4 other GMs in the league who did not wait to interview Rivera (or passed on him) that must be in a completely vegetative state.
   
   
2. I continue to be amazed at the conclusions being reached way before any decisions have been made. All we know at this point is who has been interviewed (at least as it has been reported in the press). We have no idea who the lead candidate is, or what the rationale is. For all we know, Jerry could have deferred the decision to Stephen, or could be weighing Parcells' input more heavily than any other. As Wayne stated in his original post, how can you jump to the conclusion that Jerry is reverting to his old ways, if we have no idea what is actually happening behind the scenes?

 

[zrinkill]

I continue to be amazed at the conclusions being reached way before any decisions have been made.

 

[ndanger]

I think Wayne is reaching out pretty far to suggest that Jason probably does not have a playbook put together.This is a guy that has wanted to coach all his life.A guy whose immediate family are all in the coaching proffession.To suggest he does not have a playbook and is not better prepared in my mind is just ludicris.No disrespect to Wane's opinion but I believe the young man is much more prepared than that.

 

[DipChit]

Hiring proven guys only means you are hiring somebody who has failed in the past, otherwise they'd still have a job.

At HC you could make that argument in many cases... thats why some arent so hip on Wade or Norv as HC.

But it's harder to make that argument about coordinators because even proven ones bounce around quite a bit. Either because they give HC'n a whirl then get canned and are available as coordinators again or if they're coordinators and their HC gets canned the new guy wants to play a different style of football so he brings in his own guys.

And even if you are a strong HC you cant get away with just anyone as your coordinators. If that werent true Jimmy wouldnt have felt compelled to switch from David Shula to Norv in the first place.

Can a person honestly say they wouldnt feel better about having say, Wade, locked and loaded as their DC compared to Bowles? Or even compared to Wades very own understudy, Manusky, who has been with him for 3 years?

 

[Rockytop6]

you make alot of good points

David

Right. Neither Jason nor Singletary were interviewed by these other teams that just hired new HCs. Uh, how many of them interviewed Norv or Wade?

Re: JJ reverting: I guess we are using the same logic as has been applied to those interviewed for the HC job: Their past experience.

 

[Aikbach]

I do not intend to insult anyone or demean anyone's opinion or right to express it, but some of the nonsense about whom should be hired as HC of the Cowboys and the attacks on JJ as reverting to his meddling ways are beyond my scope of comprehension.

1. We have a playoff team with decent talent, a team that clearly underachieved, a team that should be fairly close to be seriously competitive. Yet people want to hire guys like Singletary and Rivera to be head coach? These are guys who have never been there...Singletary has very little coaching experience. Even Rivera has never run a defense other than the one Lovie Smith designed, a 4-3 by the way. This team is not that easily converted to a good 4-3. We have only one viable candidate with any experience for DT...Ferguson...and he has little mobility. Everyone else is a projection to the position.

At DE, we have Ellis and Ware, and all the guys behind them are oversized DE's selected specifically for the 3-4.

At LB, we have some talent, but are we sure we have 3-4 guys who run well enough to take our defense to a higher level? We could draft and use FA to rectify this, but then we're neglecting the offense and the OL yet another year.

I'm shocked by the idea that some think we'd be ready to go forward with a HC with no experience, especially those who suggest Singletary who has not coordinated either side of the ball, and people want to turn the offense over to Jason Garrett who also has very little experience and probably no offensive playbook of his own yet as a guy with 2 years as QB coach....holy crap.

If we were going to hire a defensive HC, hiring a 4-3 guy instead of Wade Phillips who has done great things in SD would be a highly questionable move.

2. Why is Jerry Jones catching so much grief for considering hiring a HC that would be great for the offense and Romo, a guy who actually has a little experience, though with far less talented teams...Norv Turner...and the most qualified and exciting 3-4 prospect in the league, also with HC experience...Wade Phillips. People want to look at their records in limited stints with inferior teams...yet they are excited about hiring guys who coach defenses that don't match our personel, guys with no HC experience, and then turn the offense over to a guy with two years a QB coach in Miami?

Jerry Jones IS the gm of the Cowboys, but people confuse that role with his position as owner...like it or not, he is both. But the reality is that the hiring of coaches and support staff, and bringing in a young guy to hopefully groom...Jason Garrett...are what gm's all across the NFL do. People talk like Rivera and Singletary are attractive candidates, yet not a single gm in the NFL who needed new coaches in Miami, Pittsburgh, Oakland, Arizona, ??? even gave Singletary an interview as far as I know....certainly he wasn't a serious candidate even in Oakland. And not a single one of those teams, several who were interested in hiring young guys with limited experience were willing to wait on Rivera...if he was all that great, don't you think some of those gm's could have waited? Would it have hurt them any more than Dallas if he was such an attractive candidate?

Come on guys...It's one thing to hire an inexperienced guy like Whizzenhunt...at least he'd been running the offensive side of the ball for a SB champion for a coach who was defensive oriented, and he showed great creativity in using guys like Randall El. But the other HC hires???? Not a single gm in the NFL wanted Singletary, and not a single gm saw Rivera as an attractive enough candidate to wait on him. He wants to be a HC...you don't think he'd even take the job in Oakland if Al Davis had waited on him?

These guys either are not ready for the job or they simply aren't that attractive to other gms, so why lambast Jerry Jones for how he's handling the situation? He's not acting as a meddling owner...he's acting in his capacity as gm, and he's not doing anything any differently than many other gm's.

3. I would support Norv or Wade more than anyone else mentioned. Wade Phillips would step in and take our 3-4 to a new level, just as he's done in SD...he'd get faster results than anyone trying to come in with knowledge limited to the 4-3 and limited experience as a DC, much less trying to do both that and oversee the team as HC. But there's no way we're going to turn our offense and T.O. over to Jason Garrett with almost no experience, not yet.
me, that's scary.

4. Cut a hole in a box....

 

[Chuck 54]

4. Cut a hole in a box....

I'm too old to understand what this means....

 

[Cochese]

I'm too old to understand what this means....

It was a skit on saturday night live whenever Justin Timberlake was hosting.

 

[blindzebra]

None, but he had head coaching experience, a national title, a strong staff with him, and still went 1-15 in his first year. We have a team that shouldn't have to go through that.

We have a team that WOULDN'T GO THROUGH THAT, which was my point.

How much of 1-15 was on the job training and how much of it was having the worst talent of any team not wearing creamcicle unis?