Iloka versus Thomas

erod said:
Look, I'd much rather see Iloka back there than any of the cast we have right now. But he's not anywhere near Earl Thomas when it comes to playing deep safety.

You can put up videos of the handful of plays he made, but there are PLENTY more where he got beaten badly back there. He ain't great.

As far as the football semantics, Richard wants to play our corners up on the line with a deep high safety. (Which is wonderful.) That's not Cover 3. Seattle had teams in 3rd-and-long a LOT, which is the perfect time to play Cover 3.

Dallas needs a guy that can roam, and more imporantly, a guy that can call the defensive secondary like Sean Lee.

No doubt Dallas is interested because they love the bargain bin these days. But I hope it's just posturing leverage for a real run at Thomas, which is the only guy that can make this defense elite.
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This is really just one giant strawman because no one has suggested that this guy is as good as E Thomas.

But some of you are living in a fantasyland where Thomas will just appear in a Cowboys uniform. But we aren't living in that fantasyland right now. We are in an entirely different place where Thomas is an unlikely get because Seattle is holding out for a huge return and our starting, and likely "only", FS is now down with a bum hamstring. No one says Iloka is a stud. But he's competent and we don't even have competent right now.

And no offense, you can say whatever you want about what you think Richard wants to play but read any report on Richard and the Seattle defense and they play primarily Cover 3. Just admit that you got it wrong and move on.
 
Sydla said:
This is really just one giant strawman because no one has suggested that this guy is as good as E Thomas.

But some of you are living in a fantasyland where Thomas will just appear in a Cowboys uniform. But we aren't living in that fantasyland right now. We are in an entirely different place where Thomas is an unlikely get because Seattle is holding out for a huge return and our starting, and likely "only", FS is now down with a bum hamstring. No one says Iloka is a stud. But he's competent and we don't even have competent right now.

And no offense, you can say whatever you want about what you think Richard wants to play but read any report on Richard and the Seattle defense and they play primarily Cover 3. Just admit that you got it wrong and move on.
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So when you think of Seattle defense, you picture Richard Sherman playing 10 yards off the ball? That's what Cover 3 is. You think that's what we're about to see here?
 
Sydla said:
This is really just one giant strawman because no one has suggested that this guy is as good as E Thomas.

But some of you are living in a fantasyland where Thomas will just appear in a Cowboys uniform. But we aren't living in that fantasyland right now. We are in an entirely different place where Thomas is an unlikely get because Seattle is holding out for a huge return and our starting, and likely "only", FS is now down with a bum hamstring. No one says Iloka is a stud. But he's competent and we don't even have competent right now.

And no offense, you can say whatever you want about what you think Richard wants to play but read any report on Richard and the Seattle defense and they play primarily Cover 3. Just admit that you got it wrong and move on.
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This use be true because you read it on the internets.
 
Sydla said:
So let's follow this.

First you say it doesn't matter that Iloka played FS in the Bengals Cover 3 because Seattle played Cover 1.

Now all of a sudden after realizing you had no idea what Seattle/Richard primary cover scheme is, you are going to go back and say Iloka can't play it despite the fact we have people from Cincy saying he played it and played it well.

And by almost all accounts, his cut from Cincy caught everyone by surprise because, in fact, he had played just fine for Cincy as a FS. It's not like he sucked last year and they just set him free.

Why is it so hard to just say, "Wow, you are right, I didn't realize the similarities in the two defenses and Iloka actually played a competent FS there......"

I mean one can still say that and think Thomas is a much better option. I am no big Iloka fan. But I am dealing with two realities here. Thomas is a tough get, possibly an impossible get because we need Seattle to give him to us. The other reality is we are down to two healthy safeties and neither is a FS. So that leaves me scouring the available players that could at least play an adequate FS. Iloka appears to be the best fit considering he was, at the very least, adequate playing the FS spot in the Bengals Cover 3 coverages.
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Like I told you earlier.

It's Earl Thomas fixation.

Just like his Dak Prescott fixation. No matter what might actually happen, his mind is already made up and closed.
 
T-RO said:
Position:
Thomas: Free Safety
Iloka: Strong Safety

Size:
Thomas: 5’10, 202
Iloka: 6’4” 225

2018 PFF rating:
Thomas: 90.2
Iloka: 71.4

2018 salary hit:
Thomas: $8.5 mil
Ikola: Unknown. Will be free agent. I project $2.5-3.5 mil

LongTerm Commitment to Aging Player:
Thomas more likely requires huge-dollar long-term deal.
Iloka might not require a long-term commitment. Could be one-year.

Age:
Thomas 29.2 yrs
Ikola: 28.1 yrs

Recent Durability:
Thomas: late 2016 broken leg
Ikola: Started Last 76 games
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Just wanted to add a little something. That 71.4 grade Iloka got last year was his highest to date.

'13- 64.6
'14- 69.4
'15- 69.6
'16- 68.0
'17- 71.4

Earl Thomas for comparison

'10- 56.0
'11- 80.8
12- 72.5
13- 88.2
14- 83.9
15- 85.1
16- 84.5

I dont like PFFs overall grades. Cant find DB stats from each year though.
 
stasheroo said:
Like I told you earlier.

It's Earl Thomas fixation.

Just like his Dak Prescott fixation. No matter what might actually happen, his mind is already made up and closed.
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It's elite defense fixation.

With him, Dallas could be elite. Without him, get ready for wide open receivers running free down the seam on a regular basis.
 
erod said:
It's elite defense fixation.

With him, Dallas could be elite. Without him, get ready for wide open receivers running free down the seam on a regular basis.
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Total exaggeration.

It's fine if you're fixated on Earl Thomas, but nobody is buying the "receivers running free" ********.
 
erod said:
So when you think of Seattle defense, you picture Richard Sherman playing 10 yards off the ball? That's what Cover 3 is. You think that's what we're about to see here?
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So again, you know better than the beat writers and bloggers in Seattle who have watched the Seattle defense and Richard for years?

And no, playing Cover 3 does not mean your CBs have to play 10+ yards off the WR. Here's a picture from ESPN about Seattle's Cover 3 defense.

i


Seattle plays a bit more aggressive at the line in their Cover 3 but the CBs primary responsibility will always be the outside thirds of the field and the FS will have the middle of the field.

And yet again, no one is saying Iloka is E Thomas. But by most accounts, he played adequately in a Cover 3 defense in Cincy and we right now don't have a single FS that is healthy on the roster that can even play just a little bit.
 
Sydla said:
So again, you know better than the beat writers and bloggers in Seattle who have watched the Seattle defense and Richard for years?

And no, playing Cover 3 does not mean your CBs have to play 10+ yards off the WR. Here's a picture from ESPN about Seattle's Cover 3 defense.

i


Seattle plays a bit more aggressive at the line in their Cover 3 but the CBs primary responsibility will always be the outside thirds of the field and the FS will have the middle of the field.

And yet again, no one is saying Iloka is E Thomas. But by most accounts, he played adequately in a Cover 3 defense in Cincy and we right now don't have a single FS that is healthy on the roster that can even play just a little bit.
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Exactly. And you want Xavier Woods or George Iloka by himself in that picture? Seriously?

Without Thomas, they'd better just stick to Cover 2 and take their chances.
 
erod said:
It's elite defense fixation.

With him, Dallas could be elite. Without him, get ready for wide open receivers running free down the seam on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

No one denies this.

Are you being this obtuse on purpose. No one denies that Earl Thomas makes this defense better than George Iloka. Stop arguing as if people are suggesting that.

What people are dealing with here and you aren't is the reality that we have a real issue at FS right now and that Earl Thomas is a long shot because of what Seattle is asking for in return. So with that in mind, many of us are looking for other, more likely options, that can fill a massive hole right now. Iloka appears to be the best of the bunch and based on actual research, it appears he'd be a halfway decent fit in the defensive schemes we want to play.

Let's ask you this. Are you perfectly fine just waiting on Thomas and then never getting him and having to start Frazier and Heath at safety Week 1 with Robinson and Huff as the backups?
 
erod said:
Exactly. And you want Xavier Woods or George Iloka by himself in that picture? Seriously?

Without Thomas, they'd better just stick to Cover 2 and take their chances.
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Yes, that's exactly what I want.

If I had the choice between Thomas, Woods and Iloka, I'd take Woods and Iloka first over Thomas. You got me.

The dumb stuff people say.
 
Sydla said:
No one denies this.

Are you being this obtuse on purpose. No one denies that Earl Thomas makes this defense better than George Iloka. Stop arguing as if people are suggesting that.

What people are dealing with here and you aren't is the reality that we have a real issue at FS right now and that Earl Thomas is a long shot because of what Seattle is asking for in return. So with that in mind, many of us are looking for other, more likely options, that can fill a massive hole right now. Iloka appears to be the best of the bunch and based on actual research, it appears he'd be a halfway decent fit in the defensive schemes we want to play.

Let's ask you this. Are you perfectly fine just waiting on Thomas and then never getting him and having to start Frazier and Heath at safety Week 1 with Robinson and Huff as the backups?
Click to expand...

You pointed out that Iloka played free safety for the Bengals. That's my contention.

Jeff Heath played free safety here. So did Wilcox, Jones, and others. Doesn't make any of them capable free safeties.

Iloka is fine if you need another Heath or Frazier, which we don't. We need a damn free safety. We haven't had one since we got a used-up Ken Hamlin.
 
Sydla said:
I don't think he's saying that Iloka is as good as Thomas. He's saying that with all things considered - cost, trade versus just sign, etc. - Iloka might make more sense or at least be more attainable.

I mean at this point, Seattle holds most of the cards now that Woods is pulled up lame......... you going to bow to their demands now? I want Thomas in the worst way too but I don't think I'd give up my first rounder for him.
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I don't agree that Seattle holds any cards

This is Thomas last year in Seattle
Next year he'll come without a trade and 1 year older (therefore cheaper)
Safeties didn't get paid this year, he and his agent know that

If Thomas were the difference between going to the SB or not, I might agree but we're not

We should not be desperate just because a below average safety tweaked his knee

If we can't get a reasonable deal worked out with Thomas OR Seattle is unreasonable, I don't do anything
 
erod said:
You pointed out that Iloka played free safety for the Bengals. That's my contention.

Jeff Heath played free safety here. So did Wilcox, Jones, and others. Doesn't make any of them capable free safeties.

Iloka is fine if you need another Heath or Frazier, which we don't. We need a damn free safety. We haven't had one since we got a used-up Ken Hamlin.
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I not only pointed out that he played FS in Cincy but then brought you analysis that showed he played it adequately enough that the Bengals were considered one of the better Cover 3 teams in the NFL last year statistically.

Then you went down this road of just making stuff up like how we don't play Cover 3, we play Cover 1 and a bunch of other ridiculous arguments that didn't make much sense.

Iloka is arguably the best FS available to the Cowboys that they can acquire with relative ease. Everyone would want Thomas over Iloka so when you keep making that argument it just makes you look foolish. But Thomas isn't an easy get, as we have seen.

Are you suggesting we should just give Seattle whatever they want for him?
 
There was reports that Seattle was interested in Iloka as well.

Which leads me to believe that they are preparing for a season without Earl Thomas.
 
T-RO said:
Position:
Thomas: Free Safety
Iloka: Strong Safety

Size:
Thomas: 5’10, 202
Iloka: 6’4” 225

2018 PFF rating:
Thomas: 90.2
Iloka: 71.4

2018 salary hit:
Thomas: $8.5 mil
Ikola: Unknown. Will be free agent. I project $2.5-3.5 mil

LongTerm Commitment to Aging Player:
Thomas more likely requires huge-dollar long-term deal.
Iloka might not require a long-term commitment. Could be one-year.

Age:
Thomas 29.2 yrs
Ikola: 28.1 yrs

Recent Durability:
Thomas: late 2016 broken leg
Ikola: Started Last 76 games
Click to expand...
Good breakdown
 
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