Video: I'm not getting the Jaylon Smith hype

[JoeKing]

No flag. It was bang, bang in the sense the play was technically still going but the ball carrier was being brought to the ground. Some thought it was a bit dirty. I don't think so but it was probably a bit unnecessary. Smith couldn't make a play even if he wasn't touched.

That's a real shame. Sounds like just one of those freak thinks that can happen. I still want to see it. Not having any success finding video on the internet.

 

[texbumthelife]

Fair enough, but I think his coverage skills are better than his pass rushing skills, which means he won't be used very often, just due to the scheme we play. If he is playing MLB in a 4-3 under, he will have to get his nose dirty.

http://i1042.***BLOCKED***/albums/b425/Vascoledias/output_yY7yta_zpsi6nxaw4k.gif

You just don't see this brute physicality from Smith.

Sometimes you want a guy to play smarter, not harder. Wasting your energy 5 yards away from the play looks good on film, but does nothing for you during the game.

Myles Jack takes so many missteps in being so aggressive that it actually takes him out of just as many plays as he makes. I am with you in wanting someone aggressive, particularly at the position, but not so aggressive you run yourself out of plays/into trouble.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Just really seems to fit your agenda. Im sorry, but when every analyst, and every football mind out there is saying this guy would have been a first overall pick if healthy or at a minimum a top 5 player, your opinion seems quite jaded. But you picked some videos and criticize his tape..I can pull up videos of almost every NFL player and you will see mistakes...Ill take their word for it. Not to mention that he won one of the most prestigious awards in College ball, and beat out your guy Jack to do so. I guess they were wrong too?

Zeke gave up a pressure last season.

He sucks.

 

[texbumthelife]

I am conceding that Smith is a better pass rushing. Probably more agile, too. But again, he will be playing MLB in a 4-3 under.



Well, there are multiple plays where you see Smith getting thrown like a rag doll by offensive linemen.

The fact is, we don't know where he will be playing. He could literally play just about anywhere including DE.

 

[Sydla]

I am conceding that Smith is a better pass rushing. Probably more agile, too. But again, he will be playing MLB in a 4-3 under.



Well, there are multiple plays where you see Smith getting thrown like a rag doll by offensive linemen.

I saw a few of Jack getting tossed too and having trouble getting off blocks.

That's the point I think some are making. You act like Smith's tape is full of all these awful plays and then pop in Jack's tape and it's a flawless thing of beauty. In the first few minutes, there were a few plays he couldn't get off a block. Shoot, the first play he just gets stoned at the LOS by a FB, not even an OL.

 

[MichaelValentino]

We'll be having the Jack vs Smith debate for many years. I think both will have long careers despite the injuries.

I was probably a little delusional but I was hoping the Cowboys could get both Jack and Smith - Jack at no. 34 and Smith later (I was thinking 3rd). Of course, most of the chatter I read in the DZ was that someone would take a flier on Jaylon later in the draft (5th-6th). I thought that would be too late but was expecting him to be there in the top of the 3rd. Then we heard how NE was going to make a play for Smith in the 2nd.

Still, I like to escape reality now and then, and the thought of Jack and Smith, to go with Lee, was like winning the lottery.

Jack reminds me of probably the two most athletic, explosive and fast OLBs I've watched play - Wilbur Marshall and Thomas Henderson. Smith reminds me of Patrick Willis and of Brian Urlacher a little, but is not as big a hitter as those two were. If their knees hold out, both will be great players and will make their teams happy for years to come.

 

[Zordon]

I was probably a little delusional but I was hoping the Cowboys could get both Jack and Smith - Jack at no. 34 and Smith later (I was thinking 3rd). Of course, most of the chatter I read in the DZ was that someone would take a flier on Jaylon later in the draft (5th-6th). I thought that would be too late but was expecting him to be there in the top of the 3rd. Then we heard how NE was going to make a play for Smith in the 2nd.

Still, I like to escape reality now and then, and the thought of Jack and Smith, to go with Lee, was like winning the lottery.

Jack reminds me of probably the two most athletic, explosive and fast OLBs I've watched play - Wilbur Marshall and Thomas Henderson. Smith reminds me of Patrick Willis and of Brian Urlacher a little, but is not as big a hitter as those two were. If their knees hold out, both will be great players and will make their teams happy for years to come.

I would not have minded that too. I'm tired of playing these yearly games with McClain.

 

[texbumthelife]

That's a QB absolutely steam rolling Jack.

 

[Sydla]

Physicality right there.

 

[texbumthelife]

Hyper aggression isn't always the best

https://gfycat.com/WideCrispKillifish

 

[CyberB0b]

That's a QB absolutely steam rolling Jack.

Yup. Terrible tackling technique. He diagnosed the play and read it from the snap. He didn't sit back and wait for it to come to him. If he would have wrapped him up instead of trying to hit a 300lb QB high, that would have just proved my point even more.

 

[CF74]

Part of me thinks the guy might be better at SS...

 

[texbumthelife]

Yup. Terrible tackling technique. He diagnosed the play and read it from the snap. He didn't sit back and wait for it to come to him. If he would have wrapped him up instead of trying to hit a 300lb QB high, that would have just proved my point even more.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't get excited about a MLB who reads a dbl option. Most of us learned that in H.S.

I really think we are splitting hairs here. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Smith isn't an elite talent. I don't think that's what you're saying either. I do however think he offers much more versatility and given both have significant injury flags, we are talking about personal preference, really. With Smith you're getting a guy who has the instincts and natural flow to the play ability. With Jack, you're getting more raw aggression but lacks in instincts (this could be due to how he was used).

For my money, I will take the kid with the instincts who can play four positions. Jack could wind up being the best cover backer of all time, but I just don't think he's going to be able to rely on being so athletically superior in the NFL. Those missteps he takes so frequently are going to hurt him. I also still question his ability to get off blocks one on one, something Smith excels at.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If the argument is Jack vs Smith it all comes down to the injury. It trumps all of this other stuff.

They had to suture Jack's meniscus back to the bone because it is peeling off. It gets worse and there is already a concern with bone on bone now that the swelling has gone down.

Even if Jacks is better it doesn't matter because he is damaged goods with a condition that will never improve.

Also you may want to look for both the good and bad and give comprehensive analysis as opposed to cherry picking the stuff you don't like which is clearly biased to look for.

 

[CyberB0b]

You'll have to excuse me if I don't get excited about a MLB who reads a dbl option. Most of us learned that in H.S.

I really think we are splitting hairs here. I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Smith isn't an elite talent. I don't think that's what you're saying either. I do however think he offers much more versatility and given both have significant injury flags, we are talking about personal preference, really. With Smith you're getting a guy who has the instincts and natural flow to the play ability. With Jack, you're getting more raw aggression but lacks in instincts (this could be due to how he was used).

For my money, I will take the kid with the instincts who can play four positions. Jack could wind up being the best cover backer of all time, but I just don't think he's going to be able to rely on being so athletically superior in the NFL. Those missteps he takes so frequently are going to hurt him. I also still question his ability to get off blocks one on one, something Smith excels at.

I would like to see something that shows that Smith excels at getting off one on one blocks. Surely, this is some game footage of this, right? We are talking about a middle linebacker in a 4-3 here. I think Smith would be an excellent weak side linebacker in this scheme. He needs to be in a position where he can see the field and not get caught in the muck. A middle linebacker is going to have to play more downhill and get his nose dirty.

If the argument is Jack vs Smith it all comes down to the injury. It trumps all of this other stuff.

They had to suture Jack's meniscus back to the bone because it is peeling off. It gets worse and there is already a concern with bone on bone now that the swelling has gone down.

Even if Jacks is better it doesn't matter because he is damaged goods with a condition that will never improve.

Also you may want to look for both the good and bad and give comprehensive analysis as opposed to cherry picking the stuff you don't like which is clearly biased to look for.

Fair point, but I was just using Jack as an example of a player with traits to play mike linebacker in this scheme. I don't see it from Smith. I didn't really want this to be a Jack vs Smith thread.

 

[texbumthelife]

I would like to see something that shows that Smith excels at getting off one on one blocks. Surely, this is some game footage of this, right? We are talking about a middle linebacker in a 4-3 here. I think Smith would be an excellent weak side linebacker in this scheme. He needs to be in a position where he can see the field and not get caught in the muck. A middle linebacker is going to have to play more downhill and get his nose dirty.



Fair point, but I was just using Jack as an example of a player with traits to play mike linebacker in this scheme. I don't see it from Smith. I didn't really want this to be a Jack vs Smith thread.

Alright, I am eating lunch. I will hit some videos here in a bit. I like being able to debate without any insults or anything. Good lookin' out.

I think Jack translates much more to a WILL (Derrick Brooks) role in this defense.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Sure, they are going to make mistakes. You can see a drastic difference in playing styles as soon as you turn on Myles Jack. He plays down hill and is all over the field. You see brute physicality with Jack.

That Virginia tape isn't exactly making a great case for Jack. Washed out a number of times, overran a few plays and two penalties. Ok, he does show great effort, but that and a good nickname gives you Nick Hayden and I like Jack. To me, Smith is the better ocerall player as he could play any lb spot and a far better pass rusher but I hope they both have long succesful careers.

 

[texbumthelife]

I would like to see something that shows that Smith excels at getting off one on one blocks. Surely, this is some game footage of this, right? We are talking about a middle linebacker in a 4-3 here. I think Smith would be an excellent weak side linebacker in this scheme. He needs to be in a position where he can see the field and not get caught in the muck. A middle linebacker is going to have to play more downhill and get his nose dirty.



Fair point, but I was just using Jack as an example of a player with traits to play mike linebacker in this scheme. I don't see it from Smith. I didn't really want this to be a Jack vs Smith thread.

As per aggression, the very first play in this video:

 

[CyberB0b]

Alright, I am eating lunch. I will hit some videos here in a bit. I like being able to debate without any insults or anything. Good lookin' out.

I think Jack translates much more to a WILL (Derrick Brooks) role in this defense.

Yeah, no need for anything to get personal. In the OP, I said I have heard comparisons to Patrick Willis, and people calling him a thumper. I just don't see it. I do see some of that from Jack. My premise wasn't to make it a Jack vs Smith thread. When I think Patrick Willis or Ray Lewis, or even a guy like Zach Thomas, I think of someone who sees the play at the snap and is already moving towards the hole.

 

[texbumthelife]

Watch what he does to completely confound the OL @ 1:00. He gets tripped from behind, but he shows elite block shedding ability right there. The OL never had a chance.

@1:30 he breaks a block so quickly the OL once again tackles him from behind, he actually gets the call this time.

@2:45 its not block shedding, but that open field pop has to get you fired up. Watch how his feet never stop moving. He is never stationary. Now compare that to much of Jack's tape where he will sit on his heels for a second or two and then go.

Another thing to see in that tape as a whole, is how good his coverage is when asked to do it. He's not on Jack level, but he is still very very good at it. He takes ideal depth on his zones and he reacts exceptionally well on crosses.