Video: I'm not getting the Jaylon Smith hype

[CyberB0b]

Jack can't come close to rushing the QB like Smith. Night and day.

From what I have seen, he will play MLB here and replace McClain. How often do you expect to see him on the edge as a MLB in a 4-3 under?

 

[texbumthelife]

I'm gonna give you two stat lines and you tell me who looks more aggressive and better at getting off blocks and making plays.

A: 64 solo T; 47 Ast T; 111 Tot T; 9 TFL; 3.5 Sacks; 0 INT; 2 PD; 1 FF
B: 57 Solo T; 30 Ast T; 87 Tot T; 8 TFL; 0 Sacks; 1 INT; 7 PD; 0 FF

For example A, this wasn't even his best year as far as tackle numbers go.

Now, you tell me who looks like they can get off blocks and get to the play better.

 

[DTown214]

Everyone has bad games. If I showed you Sean Lee's tape against the Patriots or Saints last year, you'd think he's a scrub. If I showed you his tape against the Eagles or Commanders, you'd think he's an all-pro. Don't put all your stock into a couple of youtube videos. The guy had 225 tackles the last 2 seasons and there's a reason why he was thought of as a top 5 talent in the draft pre-injury. I only watched a few Notre Dame games this season but he jumped off the TV to me.

 

[superonyx]

didn't Jaylon Smith get over 226 Tackles in the last 2 years?

I love watching "tape" of game play and pretending I know what I am watching more than the hundreds of actual experts that have watched all of the tape and came to the conclusion that the guy is awesome.

Barring his injury I don't think you could find a scout or expert that would not put him in the top 5 players in college football in regards to the draft.
How many times are these guys wrong? Looking back at the top 5 guys from previous drafts and look at the hit rate. Top 20-30 and you will get more misses but top 5 is generally right on.

Being honest, unless I have extensive serious experience with the linebacker position (and I don't) I have to trust the people that do to say the guy is a stud.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I've heard people hyping him up as the next Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis, but I just don't see it.

 

[CyberB0b]

"They moved him inside and admittedly, he struggled there." I wonder where he will play here...

 

[JBell]

There weren't nearly 100 snaps between those two videos, but OK. How often do you expect him to line up as a pure edge rusher in any 4-3 scheme? Especially a 4-3 under? I admit, he's great when no one touches him.

It depends just how good of a pass rusher he is. Since ND rarely unleashed him, all we have to go by is that pass rushing tape he put out on YouTube where he looks like a 10+ sack guy if he strictly rushed the passer.

I expect him to be used all over the place like Jamie Collins.


"Short answer," Kelly said, "I haven't coached a player like (Smith) before, period."

"(Smith) can line up with his hand on the ground," Kelly explained. "He can cover the inside receiver. He can play in the box. He can tackle in open space. There's not much he can't do."

 

[MichaelValentino]

In the 90s days, the Cowboys became very successful with small speedy LBs (Darrin Smith, Dixon Edwards) who were not exactly thumpers but they could pursue, cover and tackle. Even Ken Norton was not necessarily known as a physical LB in his early years. The knock on him was he did not like contact. He could tackle and cover, though, and he was a great leader.

I see Smith looking a lot like the 90s LBs that made the Dallas defense very good. He is a much better talent, though, than any of those LBs.

Good point, Zimmy. If Jaylon Smith fully recovers he will be a special player. Speed-wise, unless I have a slow 40 time for Smith, he isn't as fast as Darrin Smith (4.5) or Dixon Edwards (4.45). In that respect, Jack reminds me more of D. Smith and Edwards (and Thomas Henderson - probably the NFL's first ultra-athletic sub 4.5 LB) than does Jaylon.

I don't know how many remember Wilbur Marshall, weak OLB, no. 58, for the 85 Bears. Jack reminds me of him - compact, explosive and so fast. If you recall the way the Bears used Marshall (and Otis Wilson, SAM), that's how I would like to see the Cowboys use Smith sometimes.

 

[TwoDeep3]

Smith is simple.

He recovers from his injury, this is top five
He doesn't, Jerry Jones is Satan - and everyone knows Satan cannot repair nerve damage

 

[DuDa]

I've heard people hyping him up as the next Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis, but I just don't see it. I've also seen people call him a heat seeking missile. Again, I don't see it. You'll notice a theme here. He hates to get blocked and dances around blockers more than I like, which takes him out of plays. There isn't a lot that jumps off the screen here to me. When you watch Myles Jack, he jumps off the screen.

I'll just quit here with the specific plays. I was really surprised how much he was used in coverage. I think comparing him to Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis aren't really good. He is an extremely versatile player who shows flashes of being physical, but he really seems like finesse type of linebacker. He can cover, can play inside or outside. He can spy the QB. I think his pass rushing skills are over hyped. Most of his pressure seems to come from blown blocks where he isn't even touched.

Another thing I noticed is that he doesn't play downhill as much as I expected. He has really good instincts, but doesn't seem to trust them. He seems to sit back and wait for the play to come to him. Is this scheme?

Are these just bad games or am I missing something?

I told a buddy of mine the very same thing. He's a great athlete and flashes here and there with some eye popping plays but I do not see a consistent performer play in-play out. This coupled with the knee issue has my scratching my head. I really really hope I am wrong and the dude is as good as people say he is.

 

[Sydla]

5 snaps out of what, 100+? Like I said, he rarely got utilized as a pass rusher.

This Notre Dame writer says they wasted Smith's ability as a pass rusher due to ND suffering some injuries on the LB corps, and needing Smith's coverage ability. http://www.irishsportsdaily.com/2016/03/16/did-notre-dame-waste-jaylon-smith-as-a-pass-rusher/

I can confirm this. One of the criticisms from the fans/alums was that Smith wasn't used more to attack QBs, especially when ND was struggling to get some pressure from their front four.

 

[Kolemmitt]

Here is what Rod had to say about Smith:

Cowboys defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli discovered who Smith was while doing a clinic last year at Notre Dame. Marinelli is friends with Notre Dame offensive line coach Harry Hiestand. During the first snap of practice that day, Marinelli said he "saw a missile go by me."

"It was unbelievable," Marinelli said Friday night during the draft show on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. "It was Jaylon. That's how you like to get introduced to a player, not by hype, not by measurables, not by Mel Kiper, whatever. You feel it. You see it. Boy, he jumped right out.

"I've been very fortunate to be around [Derrick] Brooks and [Brian] Urlacher and [Lance] Briggs and guys like that, and guys here, Sean Lee. This guy is unique in all areas. He's really about a 240-pound guy when he plays, he's taller, rangier than Derrick [Brooks]. But the movement, the setup, the breaks, the hitting, the instincts, the tackling, he's rare."

 

[CATCH17]

We'll be having the Jack vs Smith debate for many years. I think both will have long careers despite the injuries.

I had Smith ahead of Jack before we ever drafted Smith.


For me it comes down to who will be available so the Cowboys better be sure that Smith was = or less of a risk than Jack.

If Jack was less risk then they made the wrong pick.

 

[Sydla]

Something I need to see. No flag, no illegal action in that shove? Just a freak accident? I have questions.

No flag. It was bang, bang in the sense the play was technically still going but the ball carrier was being brought to the ground. Some thought it was a bit dirty. I don't think so but it was probably a bit unnecessary. Smith couldn't make a play even if he wasn't touched.

 

[Sydla]

There weren't nearly 100 snaps between those two videos, but OK. How often do you expect him to line up as a pure edge rusher in any 4-3 scheme? Especially a 4-3 under? I admit, he's great when no one touches him.

Well in fairness, in your UCLA-UVA clip, I counted three times Jack was asked to rush the passer and didn't do anything spectacular either.

 

[superonyx]

I've heard people hyping him up as the next Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis, but I just don't see it. I've also seen people call him a heat seeking missile. Again, I don't see it. You'll notice a theme here. He hates to get blocked and dances around blockers more than I like, which takes him out of plays. There isn't a lot that jumps off the screen here to me. When you watch Myles Jack, he jumps off the screen.



:43 you can see what I am talking about here. Gets demolished and blown out of the play.
1:00 tries to dance away from a block, loses balance, and lets the RB break off a big run.
1:50 destroyed on a block
2:05 lost in the trash
2:50 great open field hit on the QB
4:55 I wish I saw more of this. Engages, sheds, and makes the play
5:10 dances around a block and takes himself out of the play
5:20 blocked 1:1
5:36 another good example of what I want to see more of



:23 looks like he has contain and just holds it.
:36 blocked out of the play and loses position
:48 bad angle and poor attempt at an arm tackle
1:35 great instincts and makes the play
2:45 tries to dance around instead of sticking his nose in there.
2:49 again, dances himself out of the play
2:56 blocked out of the play
5:09 obliterated off the edge

I'll just quit here with the specific plays. I was really surprised how much he was used in coverage. I think comparing him to Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis aren't really good. He is an extremely versatile player who shows flashes of being physical, but he really seems like finesse type of linebacker. He can cover, can play inside or outside. He can spy the QB. I think his pass rushing skills are over hyped. Most of his pressure seems to come from blown blocks where he isn't even touched.

Another thing I noticed is that he doesn't play downhill as much as I expected. He has really good instincts, but doesn't seem to trust them. He seems to sit back and wait for the play to come to him. Is this scheme?

Are these just bad games or am I missing something?

I appreciate the videos...
I have to say after watching both Jaylen Smith and the Miles Jack video from this thread I am even more excited than ever that we landed Smith.
The guy looked totally dominant in these videos.

Lets hope he returns to form.

 

[texbumthelife]

Here is what Rod had to say about Smith:

Cowboys defensive coordinator Rod Marinelli discovered who Smith was while doing a clinic last year at Notre Dame. Marinelli is friends with Notre Dame offensive line coach Harry Hiestand. During the first snap of practice that day, Marinelli said he "saw a missile go by me."

"It was unbelievable," Marinelli said Friday night during the draft show on 105.3 The Fan [KRLD-FM]. "It was Jaylon. That's how you like to get introduced to a player, not by hype, not by measurables, not by Mel Kiper, whatever. You feel it. You see it. Boy, he jumped right out.

"I've been very fortunate to be around [Derrick] Brooks and [Brian] Urlacher and [Lance] Briggs and guys like that, and guys here, Sean Lee. This guy is unique in all areas. He's really about a 240-pound guy when he plays, he's taller, rangier than Derrick [Brooks]. But the movement, the setup, the breaks, the hitting, the instincts, the tackling, he's rare."

I have respect for all the opinions on this forum, but this quote should absolutely shut it down.

 

[CyberB0b]

It depends just how good of a pass rusher he is. Since ND rarely unleashed him, all we have to go by is that pass rushing tape he put out on YouTube where he looks like a 10+ sack guy if he strictly rushed the passer.

I expect him to be used all over the place like Jamie Collins.


"Short answer," Kelly said, "I haven't coached a player like (Smith) before, period."

"(Smith) can line up with his hand on the ground," Kelly explained. "He can cover the inside receiver. He can play in the box. He can tackle in open space. There's not much he can't do."

Fair enough, but I think his coverage skills are better than his pass rushing skills, which means he won't be used very often, just due to the scheme we play. If he is playing MLB in a 4-3 under, he will have to get his nose dirty.

http://i1042.***BLOCKED***/albums/b425/Vascoledias/output_yY7yta_zpsi6nxaw4k.gif

You just don't see this brute physicality from Smith.

 

[Sydla]

You really overrated Jack's brute physicality and then act like Smith is some CB out there trying to play LB.

 

[CyberB0b]

Well in fairness, in your UCLA-UVA clip, I counted three times Jack was asked to rush the passer and didn't do anything spectacular either.

I am conceding that Smith is a better pass rushing. Probably more agile, too. But again, he will be playing MLB in a 4-3 under.

You really overrated Jack's brute physicality and then act like Smith is some CB out there trying to play LB.

Well, there are multiple plays where you see Smith getting thrown like a rag doll by offensive linemen.