I'm predicting...

[Hostile]

Spears is 295
Canty played at 290 in college
You forget Coleman - he's a strong DE candidate
Ellis if he wants to play here can get to 280

Ware is a stud 250
Burnett is 240 and a kid who will grow into a 250 pound backer
Shanle has played at 245 and will be bulked up this year with switch
Dat is a football player with 3-4 experience.

You have not watched enough Ferguson. He may only be 305 but he's as pesky and stout in the middle as they come!

I feel better with our defense this year. Last years defense was a trainwreck going into Minny game - and it went South fast...


Stop with the 4-3 BZ, Howard trade is dead and we drafted 3-4 pieces. Game, set and match. Its over.

Everyone feels better about our defense this year Nors. Because we drafted and signed some good personnel to fill gaping holes. Why does that upset you so much?

 

[Nors]

No, there is not. The role of "occupy and engage" is the same in any scheme. The difference lies in what other assignments are beyond those duties.

I'll concede on semantics.

This 3-4 will be much more aggressive than the Zimmer 4-3. I stand by that prediction. The only success Zimmy ever had in his 5 years here was in 03 when he did a lot of blitzing but was burned later in that season after teams adjusted. See Miami Turkey day game and Jake carve us up in playoffs. It was a mirage.

 

[Alexander]

I'll concede on semantics.

This 3-4 will be much more aggressive than the Zimmer 4-3. I stand by that prediction.

Once again, you blaze a trail with your willingness to stick your neck out.

First, Coach Parcells will go with his favorite defense and now this?

You live on the edge, brother. I envy you.

 

[Nors]

No, you missed the point of the discussion that was going on.

HH once again screamed about the stupidity of using an "occupy and engage" scheme.

Fact, the 3-4 asks the 3 DL to "occupy and engage" to free up the Lbs to make plays.

LT was a LB freed up to make plays because the DL was playing "occupy and engage."

There was a thread quoted in an earlier post by me. You can look it up and actually learn a great deal about both schemes if you are so inclined.

I get both schemes - YOU listen for a chance and maybe YOU can learn something. There is a big difference between a 4-3 playing occupy and egage at DE and having small linebackers behind that who DO NOT ATTACK.

And a 3-4 who uses Big DE to Engage Oline to allow Big attacking OLB's to wreak havoc. Great example - see LT, Derrick Thomas, and soon Ware......

 

[Hostile]

I'll concede on semantics.

This 3-4 will be much more aggressive than the Zimmer 4-3. I stand by that prediction. The only success Zimmy ever had in his 5 years here was in 03 when he did a lot of blitzing but was burned later in that season after teams adjusted. See Miami Turkey day game and Jake carve us up in playoffs. It was a mirage.

We will be more aggressive because of the personnel we acquired Nors.

You've been trying to say for 3 years that we'd have been successful and more aggressive with warm bodies in there. That simply is not true. We got some guys who can bring the heat. The scheme has not given them this ability. They have talent. We lacked the talent to pressure the QB and attack. Hopefully this is now here.

What you guys who scream abotu the "occupy and engage" fail to comprehend is actually basic defense 101 stuff. Here's a tidbit for you. The Line of Scrimmage is a zone where giant men "occupy and engage" each other in an effort to push the ball in the direction they wish to go.

Your magic scheme is not going to create pressure. Better players will. There is no way you can tell me anything different.

 

[Hostile]

I get both schemes - YOU listen for a chance and maybe YOU can learn something. There is a big difference between a 4-3 playing occupy and egage at DE and having small linebackers behind that who DO NOT ATTACK.

And a 3-4 who uses Big DE to Engage Oline to allow Big attacking OLB's to wreak havoc. Great example - see LT, Derrick Thomas, and soon Ware......

You just proved my point and don't even realize it.

 

[Nors]

Nice backpedal out on the 3-4 "occupy and defend" attack that was taking place here.

On better players thats obvious.But you have to put players in best position to do what they do best. What good is the talented Roy if he's chasing WR's around 25 yards behind line of scrimmage?

This is not basketball where team with best player or 2 dominates.

Its Talent, Coaching and scheming.

 

[blindzebra]

Spears is 295
Canty played at 290 in college
You forget Coleman - he's a strong DE candidate
Ellis if he wants to play here can get to 280

Ware is a stud 250
Burnett is 240 and a kid who will grow into a 250 pound backer
Shanle has played at 245 and will be bulked up this year with switch
Dat is a football player with 3-4 experience.

You have not watched enough Ferguson. He may only be 305 but he's as pesky and stout in the middle as they come!

I feel better with our defense this year. Last years defense was a trainwreck going into Minny game - and it went South fast...


Stop with the 4-3 BZ, Howard trade is dead and we drafted 3-4 pieces. Game, set and match. Its over.

Our projected starters in a 3-4 weigh in at 1852, that is offical weight, not Nors' weight.

Your Patriots come in at 2006 pounds. Pittsburgh out weighs us, so does SD.

Oakland's starters came in at 1833 last year, who'd that 3-4 play?

 

[Nors]

You just proved my point and don't even realize it.

Good we agree - Parcells will be running an aggressive 3-4 featuring Spears, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett and hopefully Canty.

Better than a 4-3 occupy and defend wuss scheme. My money is on Parcells long this season!

 

[Hostile]

Nice backpedal out on the 3-4 "occupy and defend" attack that was taking place here.

On better players thats obvious.But you have to put players in best position to do what they do best. What good is the talented Roy if he's chasing WR's around 25 yards behind line of scrimmage?

This is not basketball where team with best player or 2 dominates.

Its Talent, Coaching and scheming.

So, you are saying that LT was effective without the front 3 "occupying and engaging" the OL?

Nonsense. He'd have still been dangerous but he had personnel around him to feed that success.

Ray Lewis is effective because he is freed up by players who "occupy and engage."

Ronnie Lott was. Gary Fencik.

Any player away from the DL who has been successful in attacking offenses has been successful because the DL freed him up to do so.

Any player on the DL who is successful in attacking the QB is so because of ability.

Personnel always matters.

 

[Hostile]

Good we agree - Parcells will be running an aggressive 3-4 featuring Spears, Ferguson, Ware, Burnett and hopefully Canty.

Better than a 4-3 occupy and defend wuss scheme. My money is on Parcells long this season!

Ware? You mean the guy you said we'd be foolish to take over Merriman? Good personnel and I agree he will make a difference. Certainly will be better than your guy Shanle or Fowler would have been last year.

If you have the balls bet me money that I won't be able to show you a 4-3 that can attack the QB. Please bet me Nors. You can go ahead and write me a check.

 

[Nors]

Ware? You mean the guy you said we'd be foolish to take over Merriman? Good personnel and I agree he will make a difference. Certainly will be better than your guy Shanle or Fowler would have been last year.

If you have the balls bet me money that I won't be able to show you a 4-3 that can attack the QB. Please bet me Nors. You can go ahead and write me a check.

Whats to bet? I have the cash already. We are attacking out of a base 3-4. Howard not in town and Ellis demanding trades and shouting match with Parcells. You can attack out of any formation.

My money is on Parcells.

 

[Hostile]

Whats to bet? I have the cash already. We are attacking out of a base 3-4. Howard not in town and Ellis demanding trades and shouting match with Parcells. You can attack out of any formation.

My money is on Parcells.

Your contention is that a 4-3 defense can't attak. You've made that clear.

Put your money where your mouth is. I got a 1000 bucks cash that I will send to an impartial judge if you will.

Like I said write me he check because you are once again totally wrong.

 

[Nors]

Our projected starters in a 3-4 weigh in at 1852, that is offical weight, not Nors' weight.

Your Patriots come in at 2006 pounds. Pittsburgh out weighs us, so does SD.

Oakland's starters came in at 1833 last year, who'd that 3-4 play?

4-3 -04 3-4 Proj. 3-4 Injured/other
Ellis 271
Spears 307 300
Canty 290 290
Coleman 284
Glover 282
Ferguson 305 315
Carson 292
Wiley 278
Dat 240 240 245
Coakley 232
Al s 236
Ware 251 251
James 245
Burnett 0 239
Ogbogu 269
Shanle 237 245
1831 1869 1915

Seymour 305
Warren 320
Wilfork 330
Vrabel 261
McGinnest 270
Johnson 253
Bruschi 245
1984

Our 4-3 was 1831 last year, I project us to be playing at 1915 after an offseason to beef up (1869 officially). Pats at 1984 last year. We need to still get a tad bigger at LB. Ogbogu may get a role here......

All in all our front 7 is bigger than last year. And we have a 230 Roy at SS. He brings 270 of force to LOS.

 

[Nors]

Your contention is that a 4-3 defense can't attak. You've made that clear.

Put your money where your mouth is. I got a 1000 bucks cash that I will send to an impartial judge if you will.

Like I said write me he check because you are once again totally wrong.

Whatever -

We are attacking in a 3-4 this year. I already cashed that one. Where's Howard and this 4-3 attacking D? Hopefully Ellis gets his Role after Parcells ***** slapped him!

Ware will be the next LT - and help take Parcells to another Super Bowl. While Canty, Spears, Ferguson do the grunt work!

 

[Nors]

Your contention is that a 4-3 defense can't attak. You've made that clear.

Put your money where your mouth is. I got a 1000 bucks cash that I will send to an impartial judge if you will.

Like I said write me he check because you are once again totally wrong.

Of course a 4-3 can attack. So?

 

[junk]

Burnett is 240 and a kid who will grow into a 250 pound backer

Maybe in 3 offseason training programs. He is Al S size right now. Built like a safety. Not all that odd since he is a former safety.

Shanle has played at 245 and will be bulked up this year with switch

Shanle was 245 last year. Now new weights are out and he is 237. The time to bulk up is past and Shanle lost weight. Pretty much from this point on, these guys will be shedding weight.

You have not watched enough Ferguson. He may only be 305 but he's as pesky and stout in the middle as they come!

I agree on that. I love the signing. Ferguson was a must have for either scheme. I do worry about interior run defense though.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Of course a 4-3 can attack. So?

Someone needs to find Nors testicles and return them to him.....

 

[Hostile]

Someone needs to find Nors testicles and return them to him.....

That was pretty much tucking his tail and running. Typical.

 

[Hostile]

Whatever -

We are attacking in a 3-4 this year. I already cashed that one. Where's Howard and this 4-3 attacking D? Hopefully Ellis gets his Role after Parcells ***** slapped him!

Ware will be the next LT - and help take Parcells to another Super Bowl. While Canty, Spears, Ferguson do the grunt work!

You are so infatuated with Darren Howard. Do you want a special title for him or something? I can help you out.

We are attacking this year because we added players who can do it.

Please try and tell me we could have attacked with a 3-4 and our personnel last year. Ridiculous.

It isn't the scheme, it's the people in it.