In defense of Stephen in the Gregory negotiation

[CouchCoach]

To be honest, even when Gregory was drafted, he has always been a better fit as a 3-4 LB, so the thought that he was even going to stay with the Cowboys is a bit of loyalty. He probably sent Stephen a thank you note from Denver for giving him an out. Ware stayed healthier there as an OLB too.

Ware was used properly and Dallas had tried resting him and that never worked. The D wasn't really good with Ware but it was awful without him.

 

[CTcowboy203]

We don't know where they were in the agreement stage. Had they closed it up as a done deal or were they still negotiating? Just because it was disclosed that he was signing does not mean it was a done deal. These releases are coming from agents trolling for clients.

I do think they got blindsided that there was another offer and a matching one, what a surprise.

well considering reports that Jerry negotiated and sold Gregory on coming back and Gregory agreed then Jerry found out about the deal falling apart because of clauses after the fact kind of shows the deal that Jerry and randy agreed to was altered.

That’s why he’s reportedly livid. They didn’t get blindsided by another deal- the Broncos had been connected to Gregory for at least 2 days and were the favorites which is why Jerry got involved

 

[BlueStar22]

I see some are blaming him for his 11th hour contract verbiage that lost Gregory to Denver but that is a common negotiating tactic and how can he be faulted for trying to protect the club with a player with a spotty history?

I don't like Stephen but in this case, I will defend what he did, not really knowing what the 11th hour terms were but this team does not have a history with that so it had to be to protect the team.

Most refer to it as the "Columbo Close" and the timing of it is crucial. It is named for his "oh, one more thing" which was the real thing all along. It must be used when the buyer is already amenable to the close, objections have all been addressed and they want to do this.

I had it used against me many times and grew to expect it because it speaks to you are already in agreement and have just about taken ownership, you won't back out now. However, it does not allow for previous options being in place...like Denver with a matching offer on the table. I think that one caught them off guard.

You can bet this wasn't some last minute item they'd forgotten about, this was in the plan all along but it had to be played at the right moment. Do you think it was lost on them than in the last game of his contract year he behaved as he did on the field? His history with a tearful admission that he'd let his Mom down only to repeat that over and over again?

Think shades of Terrell Owens on his best behavior with one year renewable contracts until he got his three year deal. Say hello to the real Owens.

And this is a player that blew a drug test the week of the draft after being considered a top 15 pick. They had ample warning and the media would have been merciless with the cap situation and working it out to keep this guy should he go off the rails again. And something about Gregory made them nervous.

I really think Stephen did the right thing in this instance and if this 11th hour verbiage was behavior related and Gregory balked at that, that's all I need to know. He might be good in Denver but he had already proven what he could be in Dallas.

If you are going to change the language, Present it to him from the beginning! Don't have him agree and then put it in later. That's not doing business in good faith. There's no need to defend Stephen Jones. None.

 

[Diehardblues]

14m$ a year for Randy Gregory is not a great deal, even if you could get out of it after 2-3 years.

Why not spend that money on a player you don’t want to dump after a couple of seasons? Someone who you dont Expect to disappoint you?

IMO, Dallas has the opportunity now to have a better pass rush than last year, and that’s one heck of a silver lining

How do you figure. Is Armstrong going to fill the hole?

I wasn’t for paying Gregory but assuming we are better off talent wise or we’ll have a better pass rush without him befuddles me.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I see where the OP is coming from here, but Stephen’s track record in free agency and contract negotiation is abysmal. He has one hit that I can think of—Jayron Kearse—and a bunch of guys who seldom last until midseason. For a guy who prides himself on being a “smart shopper,” he has an odd knack of re-signing players to exorbitant, cap-crippling deals.

 

[manster4ever]

The OP has a valid point and we don't KNOW what happened and how it was handled. Everyone wants to laugh and chuck SJ under the bus but it's POSSIBLE he and other Cowboys brass asked RG to abide by the same type of 'behavioral clause' he's had for years. I would have asked the same BTW but it seems their timing here was way off and Gregory bolted. JJ will be livid but as the old motto goes: 'some of the best deals are the ones you don't make'. That might be the case here. I like RG and loved his game in spuirts but he wasn't consistent enough to be worth 70 mil with 28 of it guaranteed...that's not good business IMO. They'll lick their wounds and could sign Chandler Jones:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...ue-pass-rusher-chandler-jones-in-free-agency/

Ironically, Denver was looking hard at Jones but got Gregory instead. So the Boys might end up with Jones who's 32 but has more skins on the wall and no 'behavioral clause' needed. OR they can make Micah a full time D.End and sign Wagner to play LB which would be intriguing but I doubt they'll do it guys because I think Micah runs the risk of getting wore down going up against beefy Otackles game in and game out. Just don't think he's big enough to withstand that pounding but I could be wrong.

One last comment: Von Miller's name keeps coming up on this forum but I'm not a big fan at this point. Granted, he's 32 just like Jones but some guys perform well into their mid 30's and some don't. Miller flashed with the Rams but was inconsistent in the games I watched. Jones is quite a bit better at this point. I think a 2-3 year deal would get it done but it will cost more than Gregory for obvious reasons

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

How do you figure. Is Armstrong going to fill the hole?

I wasn’t for paying Gregory but assuming we are better off talent wise or we’ll have a better pass rush without him befuddles me.

Thats what I mean by spending that money on a player you don’t expect will need to be cut before the 2024 season. There are at least 6 pass rushers available right now with significantly better track records than RG

 

[blueblood70]

I see some are blaming him for his 11th hour contract verbiage that lost Gregory to Denver but that is a common negotiating tactic and how can he be faulted for trying to protect the club with a player with a spotty history?

I don't like Stephen but in this case, I will defend what he did, not really knowing what the 11th hour terms were but this team does not have a history with that so it had to be to protect the team.

Most refer to it as the "Columbo Close" and the timing of it is crucial. It is named for his "oh, one more thing" which was the real thing all along. It must be used when the buyer is already amenable to the close, objections have all been addressed and they want to do this.

I had it used against me many times and grew to expect it because it speaks to you are already in agreement and have just about taken ownership, you won't back out now. However, it does not allow for previous options being in place...like Denver with a matching offer on the table. I think that one caught them off guard.

You can bet this wasn't some last minute item they'd forgotten about, this was in the plan all along but it had to be played at the right moment. Do you think it was lost on them than in the last game of his contract year he behaved as he did on the field? His history with a tearful admission that he'd let his Mom down only to repeat that over and over again?

Think shades of Terrell Owens on his best behavior with one year renewable contracts until he got his three year deal. Say hello to the real Owens.

And this is a player that blew a drug test the week of the draft after being considered a top 15 pick. They had ample warning and the media would have been merciless with the cap situation and working it out to keep this guy should he go off the rails again. And something about Gregory made them nervous.

I really think Stephen did the right thing in this instance and if this 11th hour verbiage was behavior related and Gregory balked at that, that's all I need to know. He might be good in Denver but he had already proven what he could be in Dallas.

right if players like RG , aldon smith, and AB etc have history the expectation is this will be in a contract and for sure if they believe they wont get in trouble, why not sign it..its players issue, they arent confident they can stay on the straight and narrow so they balk at signing it..

 

[Bullflop]

I'm as unimpressed with Stephen's negotiating tactics as I've long been, although this isn't necessarily a bad thing if Gregory fails to impress. Perhaps he'll make a hit with Denver, but his history surely proves that he had not earned total trust in Dallas. I can't blame them for that, in view of the roller coaster ride that he subjected this team to in the past. All of his broken promises obviously took a toll. Was this a blessing in disguise? We'll see.

 

[Loso86]

I see some are blaming him for his 11th hour contract verbiage that lost Gregory to Denver but that is a common negotiating tactic and how can he be faulted for trying to protect the club with a player with a spotty history?

I don't like Stephen but in this case, I will defend what he did, not really knowing what the 11th hour terms were but this team does not have a history with that so it had to be to protect the team.

Most refer to it as the "Columbo Close" and the timing of it is crucial. It is named for his "oh, one more thing" which was the real thing all along. It must be used when the buyer is already amenable to the close, objections have all been addressed and they want to do this.

I had it used against me many times and grew to expect it because it speaks to you are already in agreement and have just about taken ownership, you won't back out now. However, it does not allow for previous options being in place...like Denver with a matching offer on the table. I think that one caught them off guard.

You can bet this wasn't some last minute item they'd forgotten about, this was in the plan all along but it had to be played at the right moment. Do you think it was lost on them than in the last game of his contract year he behaved as he did on the field? His history with a tearful admission that he'd let his Mom down only to repeat that over and over again?

Think shades of Terrell Owens on his best behavior with one year renewable contracts until he got his three year deal. Say hello to the real Owens.

And this is a player that blew a drug test the week of the draft after being considered a top 15 pick. They had ample warning and the media would have been merciless with the cap situation and working it out to keep this guy should he go off the rails again. And something about Gregory made them nervous.

I really think Stephen did the right thing in this instance and if this 11th hour verbiage was behavior related and Gregory balked at that, that's all I need to know. He might be good in Denver but he had already proven what he could be in Dallas.

I've heard it's mostly on Gregory's agent who wants him in Denver

 

[CTcowboy203]

If you are going to change the laugauge. Present it to him from the beginning! Don't have him agree and then put it in later. That's not doing business in good faith.

100%. in sales, in buying a car, a used couch I mean it’s just basic stuff. Having the clause is fine but present it to the player upfront not after terms are discussed because that clause could potentially pertain to the players bottom line

 

[Praxit]

..one good year, and show me the money? Naw, probably better they let him go.

 

[blueblood70]

The OP has a valid point and we don't KNOW what happened and how it was handled. Everyone wants to laugh and chuck SJ under the bus but it's POSSIBLE he and other Cowboys brass asked RG to abide by the same type of 'behavioral clause' he's had for years. I would have asked the same BTW but it seems their timing here was way off and Gregory bolted. JJ will be livid but as the old motto goes: 'some of the best deals are the ones you don't make'. That might be the case here. I like RG and loved his game in spuirts but he wasn't consistent enough to be worth 70 mil with 28 of it guaranteed...that's not good business IMO. They'll lick their wounds and could sign Chandler Jones:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...ue-pass-rusher-chandler-jones-in-free-agency/

Ironically, Denver was looking hard at Jones but got Gregory instead. So the Boys might end up with Jones who's 32 but has more skins on the wall and no 'behavioral clause' needed. OR they can make Micah a full time D.End and sign Wagner to play LB which would be intriguing but I doubt they'll do it guys because I think Micah runs the risk of getting wore down going up against beefy Otackles game in and game out. Just don't think he's big enough to withstand that pounding but I could be wrong.

which Jones? C Jones is available? since when? whats his cost?

 

[phildadon86]

No other team in the league would employ such an inept contract negotiator.

Nope. Hed be fired in my office cleaning out his desk right now.

 

[phildadon86]

which Jones? C Jones is available? since when? whats his cost?

Chandler Jones yea. Honestly probably cheaper than Gregory. I dont know why our FO wont look his way.

 

[Diehardblues]

Thats what I mean by spending that money on a player you don’t expect will need to be cut before the 2024 season. There are at least 6 pass rushers available right now with significantly better track records than RG

Well, we’ll see if we sign any of them. In the meantime our pass rush doesn’t look better.

 

[Ken]

They neither know him nor have history with him. The Cowboys were taking a chance because they feel they have to. If DEN thinks they're striking a payload like they did with Ware, they're going to be surprised.

He may play great for them...i feel like if he is was ever going to move into 10+ sack territory, next year was that year.

But as I heard I think Fisher say...the Cowboys know him better than anyone and have had to deal with things no one knows about. If they felt they needed that clause in there, it was for a reason.

Denver may find out the hard way.

 

[Motorola]

If you are going to change the laugauge. Present it to him from the beginning! Don't have him agree and then put it in later. That's not doing business in good faith.

Anybody taking the FO's position on this tactic....would you like for this to be done to you?

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

I see some are blaming him for his 11th hour contract verbiage that lost Gregory to Denver but that is a common negotiating tactic and how can he be faulted for trying to protect the club with a player with a spotty history?

I don't like Stephen but in this case, I will defend what he did, not really knowing what the 11th hour terms were but this team does not have a history with that so it had to be to protect the team.

Most refer to it as the "Columbo Close" and the timing of it is crucial. It is named for his "oh, one more thing" which was the real thing all along. It must be used when the buyer is already amenable to the close, objections have all been addressed and they want to do this.

I had it used against me many times and grew to expect it because it speaks to you are already in agreement and have just about taken ownership, you won't back out now. However, it does not allow for previous options being in place...like Denver with a matching offer on the table. I think that one caught them off guard.

You can bet this wasn't some last minute item they'd forgotten about, this was in the plan all along but it had to be played at the right moment. Do you think it was lost on them than in the last game of his contract year he behaved as he did on the field? His history with a tearful admission that he'd let his Mom down only to repeat that over and over again?

Think shades of Terrell Owens on his best behavior with one year renewable contracts until he got his three year deal. Say hello to the real Owens.

And this is a player that blew a drug test the week of the draft after being considered a top 15 pick. They had ample warning and the media would have been merciless with the cap situation and working it out to keep this guy should he go off the rails again. And something about Gregory made them nervous.

I really think Stephen did the right thing in this instance and if this 11th hour verbiage was behavior related and Gregory balked at that, that's all I need to know. He might be good in Denver but he had already proven what he could be in Dallas.

Deal can’t be finalized until 4:01pm 2morrow.

 

[75boyz]

The OP has a valid point and we don't KNOW what happened and how it was handled. Everyone wants to laugh and chuck SJ under the bus but it's POSSIBLE he and other Cowboys brass asked RG to abide by the same type of 'behavioral clause' he's had for years. I would have asked the same BTW but it seems their timing here was way off and Gregory bolted. JJ will be livid but as the old motto goes: 'some of the best deals are the ones you don't make'. That might be the case here. I like RG and loved his game in spuirts but he wasn't consistent enough to be worth 70 mil with 28 of it guaranteed...that's not good business IMO. They'll lick their wounds and could sign Chandler Jones:

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/...ue-pass-rusher-chandler-jones-in-free-agency/

Ironically, Denver was looking hard at Jones but got Gregory instead. So the Boys might end up with Jones who's 32 but has more skins on the wall and no 'behavioral clause' needed. OR they can make Micah a full time D.End and sign Wagner to play LB which would be intriguing but I doubt they'll do it guys because I think Micah runs the risk of getting wore down going up against beefy Otackles game in and game out. Just don't think he's big enough to withstand that pounding but I could be wrong.

Nice post. Visionary brought up Chandler Jones on the Miller or Gregory thread.

I would not mind Miller OR Jones.