In our division who scares you the most?

[Woods]

I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Ha ha.

I've been thinking that for 2-3 years now . . . . He's got to slow down SOMETIME! :bang2:

 

[Doomsday101]

The Giants ... their team strengths (outside pass rush) match up against our team weaknesses (offensive tackle). Tiki Barber and Jeremy Shockey cause matchup problems with our LB's and S's.

The only saving grace is that Eli is so horrendous.

Eli is also coming off his 1st full season as a starter and still managed to put up 24 TD to 17 ints not bad for a guy in his 1st full season as a QB in the NFL. To think he will not improve is being a bit navie

 

[superpunk]

Eli is also coming off his 1st full season as a starter and still managed to put up 24 TD to 17 ints not bad for a guy in his 1st full season as a QB in the NFL. To think he will not improve is being a bit navie

Why? During the end of his "first full season" (I love this notion, even though Eli played a large portion of the season in 2004) did he really start to light it up? Did he give anyone any reason to believe that he was getting consistently better? Whereas, you have a guy like Carson Palmer, who looked like he was finally getting it at the end of his first season, lighting other teams up - good teams, like PIT and NE.

Instead, you have Eli getting progressively worse as the competition improved. Getting worse as defensive coordinators learned his tendencies. Getting worse as creampuff secondaries like Arizona, St. Louis, and San Diego were no longer showing up on his schedule. Showing up small when his team needed him most.

I don't think it is naive at all to have low expectations for Manning this year.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Eli is also coming off his 1st full season as a starter and still managed to put up 24 TD to 17 ints not bad for a guy in his 1st full season as a QB in the NFL. To think he will not improve is being a bit navie

He actually got worse last year as the season went along, so its not like he's on an upward arc. He puts up some good total numbers (as long as the numbers don't reflect efficiency in any way, shape or form) because he has weapons with some of the best ball skills in the NFL in Shockey and Burress, and Tiki is one of the top 5 RB's in the NFL when it comes to taking a dump off pass in the flat for a huge gain ... but Eli's accuracy is atrocious. Just ridiculously bad. And I believe that accuracy is every bit as much of a God given skill as arm strength. You might be able to improve it somewhat with some mechanic tweaks, but at the end of the day you either have it or you don't. He had problems at Ole Miss letting passes sail when people got in his face.

 

[austintodallas]

Hey superpunk. Off topic but just curious...have you seen Superman Returns yet?

Saw it last night...pretty sweet!

 

[Doomsday101]

Why? During the end of his "first full season" (I love this notion, even though Eli played a large portion of the season in 2004) did he really start to light it up? Did he give anyone any reason to believe that he was getting consistently better? Whereas, you have a guy like Carson Palmer, who looked like he was finally getting it at the end of his first season, lighting other teams up - good teams, like PIT and NE.

Instead, you have Eli getting progressively worse as the competition improved. Getting worse as defensive coordinators learned his tendencies. Getting worse as creampuff secondaries like Arizona, St. Louis, and San Diego were no longer showing up on his schedule. Showing up small when his team needed him most.

I don't think it is naive at all to have low expectations for Manning this year.

It is navie when talking about a young QB with only 1 full season as a starter, yes he has a lot of work ahead of him but he has talent as well. Sorry but just because some don't like what he did on draft day does not change the fact he does have some very good skills but is still young and it should be expected that he is not going to just step in without any mistake, it is part of learning yet he still posted better numbers than many vet QB's who have a lot more experiance than he does

 

[superpunk]

Hey superpunk. Off topic but just curious...have you seen Superman Returns yet?

Saw it last night...pretty sweet!

Heh...surprisingly, no. I was sick all last weekend. I tried to stay home and rent NFL Head coach - boy was that a mistake...that game blows.

Honestly, from previews, I thought it looked real lame. I think I may go see it tomorrow, though, give it a try before Pirates of the Carribean comes out. Wife's already made me promise to go on Friday night, so she can swoon over Johnny Depp, lol.

 

[superpunk]

It is navie when talking about a young QB with only 1 full season as a starter, yes he has a lot of work ahead of him but he has talent as well. Sorry but just because some don't like what he did on draft day does not change the fact he does have some very good skills but is still young and it should be expected that he is not going to just step in without any mistake, it is part of learning yet he still posted better numbers than many vet QB's who have a lot more experiance than he does

What in the world did I say about draft day? On the one hand, you have his trend towards playing terrible at the end of the last year, not being able to hit open receivers. This was a trend, not an anomoly. But we're supposed to buy that he's got to get better with another year, like this is some sort of undeniable truth?

Sorry. not buying that load.

FYI, here's the list of veteran QBs Eli finished with a better passer rating than:

Mike Vick
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Aaron Brooks

Wow. Thrilling stuff.

 

[Doomsday101]

He actually got worse last year as the season went along, so its not like he's on an upward arc. He puts up some good total numbers (as long as the numbers don't reflect efficiency in any way, shape or form) because he has weapons with some of the best ball skills in the NFL in Shockey and Burress, and Tiki is one of the top 5 RB's in the NFL when it comes to taking a dump off pass in the flat for a huge gain ... but Eli's accuracy is atrocious. Just ridiculously bad. And I believe that accuracy is every bit as much of a God given skill as arm strength. You might be able to improve it somewhat with some mechanic tweaks, but at the end of the day you either have it or you don't. He had problems at Ole Miss letting passes sail when people got in his face.

I'll tell you the same thing HE IS STILL A YOUNG QB AND IS STILL LEARNING (I typed big because evidently some don't get it) As for accuracy BS that can improve it Troy Aikmans improved as he got more experiance why and many other QB's improve on things like accuracy as they get more experinanced. As I mentioned in the above statement Eli has a lot of work ahead of him but he putting up 24 TD to 17 ints for a guy in his 1st full season is not bad at all.

 

[superpunk]

I'll tell you the same thing HE IS STILL A YOUNG QB AND IS STILL LEARNING (I typed big because evidently some don't get it) As for accuracy BS that can improve it Troy Aikmans improved as he got more experiance why and many other QB's improve on things like accuracy as they get more experinanced. As I mentioned in the above statement Eli has a lot of work ahead of him but he putting up 24 TD to 17 ints for a guy in his 1st full season is not bad at all.

And ALL young, learning QBs get better with another year, right? This has always proved true?

 

[Doomsday101]

What in the world did I say about draft day? On the one hand, you have his trend towards playing terrible at the end of the last year, not being able to hit open receivers. This was a trend, not an anomoly. But we're supposed to buy that he's got to get better with another year, like this is some sort of undeniable truth?

Sorry. not buying that load.

FYI, here's the list of veteran QBs Eli finished with a better passer rating than:

Mike Vick
Gus Frerotte
Joey Harrington
Aaron Brooks

Wow. Thrilling stuff.

What does those QB finishing better than Eli have to do with anything? these are vet players they should be posting better numbers than some kid in his 1st full season. I agree his play dropped off at the end of the year but it does not change the fact he is still learning and to think he will not get any better than his 1st full season is a bit navie or better yet foolish.

 

[Doomsday101]

And ALL young, learning QBs get better with another year, right? This has always proved true?

Eli played better last season than he did in his rookie year where he started 7 games. So he showed improvment right there and yes most QB's will improve as they mature and gain experiance, how much I guess we will wait and see

 

[superpunk]

What does those QB finishing better than Eli have to do with anything? these are vet players they should be posting better numbers than some kid in his 1st full season.

Um, you were the one jocking Eli's ability to "post better numbers" than some veteran QBs. I was just compiling the list of QBs who Eli posted better numbers than. Impressive list, huh?

Just in case you're thinking passer rating isn't important, look at the list of QBs on that list ranked lower than 20th, in passer rating. Only 2 of them had their team finish with a winning record - Kyle Orton, and Eli Manning. These guys did not carry their teams, not even close. Their teams won in spite of them, not because of them.

I agree his play dropped off at the end of the year but it does not change the fact he is still learning and to think he will not get any better than his 1st full season is a bit navie or better yet foolish.

And blindly stating that simply because he's playing another year, he is going to take a step forward is the right, or wise, train of thought?

Spare me.

 

[InmanRoshi]

When you're completing 51% of your passes with some of the best ball-skill weapons in the NFL around you, then you probably have no where to go but up. So in that case, you're right. He probably could improve next year. From abysmal to bad.

But on the otherhand, I could easily see him getting much worse next year. Tiki has been tremedous the past couple of years. You could make a solid case that he was the MVP of the league last year. He plays all three downs, never goes off the field and still carried the ball 357 times with 54 receptions at the age of 30. But if he's not as ungodly durable this year, misses times and opposing defensive coordinators can play 4-7 men back in coverage .... Eli's going to crumble like an aluminum can having to carry a team in New York with playoff expectations.

 

[Doomsday101]

Um, you were the one jocking Eli's ability to "post better numbers" than some veteran QBs. I was just compiling the list of QBs who Eli posted better numbers than. Impressive list, huh?

Just in case you're thinking passer rating isn't important, look at the list of QBs on that list ranked lower than 20th, in passer rating. Only 2 of them had their team finish with a winning record - Kyle Orton, and Eli Manning. These guys did not carry their teams, not even close. Their teams won in spite of them, not because of them.



And blindly stating that simply because he's playing another year, he is going to take a step forward is the right, or wise, train of thought?

Spare me.

He also threw for more TD's (which is the name of the game)than most QB in the league. Only his brother, Palmer and Brady threw for more TD's. I have also stated that he still has work to do and no where did I say anything about him leading the Giants to the playoffs but to think that a young QB will not improve and right now is as good as he will ever be is flat out stupid.

 

[superpunk]

He also threw for more TD's (which is the name of the game)than most QB in the league. Only his brother, Palmer and Brady threw for more TD's. I have also stated that he still has work to do and no where did I say anything about him leading the Giants to the playoffs but to think that a young QB will not improve and right now is as good as he will ever be is flat out stupid.

How is that stupid - whereas your course, of blindly saying he's going to get much better (and let's not kid ourselves, he needs to get MUCH better) isn't? Why is the line of thinking that is completely baseless and entirely speculative the smart way of thinking? Because it's your way of thinking? People have been saying Joey Harrington was going to take off every year. David Carr. Mike Vick. Every year, they can only get better -blah, blah, freaking blah. Somehow it never happens.

But my POV, which is actually based on Eli's performance, what he's shown to this point, is flat out stupid.

Right.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He actually got worse last year as the season went along, so its not like he's on an upward arc. He puts up some good total numbers (as long as the numbers don't reflect efficiency in any way, shape or form) because he has weapons with some of the best ball skills in the NFL in Shockey and Burress, and Tiki is one of the top 5 RB's in the NFL when it comes to taking a dump off pass in the flat for a huge gain ... but Eli's accuracy is atrocious. Just ridiculously bad. And I believe that accuracy is every bit as much of a God given skill as arm strength. You might be able to improve it somewhat with some mechanic tweaks, but at the end of the day you either have it or you don't. He had problems at Ole Miss letting passes sail when people got in his face.

I don't know that I can agree with this. I think you are probably right in the fact that Eli does not do his best work when he has guys in his face but then again, we got a guy who is 13 years into this thing who has exactly the same problems magnified by 10x so I don't know. The Giants passing game is not a short game approach. Not really WC, per say. They throw the ball downfield a lot. In this type of passing game, your QB will typically have a completion percentage that is less then what you might find from a WC offense. He improved from 48.2 in his rookie year to 52.8 last year. I do believe that he will continue to get better at this phase of his game as time goes on but I don't believe he will ever be a guy who throws for 61/62.

 

[illone]

There is no cut and dry front runner in the East right now. All of us have some question marks heading into the year.

That said, I don't really fear anyone. I'm anxious for the season to start, though, and can't wait until SNF week 2.

 

[Doomsday101]

How is that stupid - whereas your course, of blindly saying he's going to get much better (and let's not kid ourselves, he needs to get MUCH better) isn't? Why is the line of thinking that is completely baseless and entirely speculative the smart way of thinking? Because it's your way of thinking? People have been saying Joey Harrington was going to take off every year. David Carr. Mike Vick. Every year, they can only get better -blah, blah, freaking blah. Somehow it never happens.

But my POV, which is actually based on Eli's performance, what he's shown to this point, is flat out stupid.

Right.

Your point of view in judging a QB who just finished his 1st full season. Yeah your a real expert aren't you homer? go get a clue

 

[Hostile]

The entire division is good. Philly still spooks me the most. I worry that they will be taken lightly and they are a proud team with a lot of talent still.