In our division who scares you the most?

[superpunk]

I don't know that I can agree with this. I think you are probably right in the fact that Eli does not do his best work when he has guys in his face but then again, we got a guy who is 13 years into this thing who has exactly the same problems magnified by 10x so I don't know. The Giants passing game is not a short game approach. Not really WC, per say. They throw the ball downfield a lot. In this type of passing game, your QB will typically have a completion percentage that is less then what you might find from a WC offense. He improved from 48.2 in his rookie year to 52.8 last year. I do believe that he will continue to get better at this phase of his game as time goes on but I don't believe he will ever be a guy who throws for 61/62.

That's an interesting POV, the offense he plays in can have an effect on his completion pct. Consider his splits on pass depth;

Behind Line - 52% completion - 73 attempts
1-10 yards - 64% completion - 264 attemps
11-20 yards - 46% completion - 116 attempts
21-30 yards - 28% completion - 50 attempts

And he only had 27 attempts all year over 30 yards, completing about 18% of them. Normal is around 50%, at least from what I've looked at for QBs with similar deep passing attempts.

 

[superpunk]

Your point of view in judging a QB who just finished his 1st full season. Yeah your a real expert aren't you homer? go get a clue

Homer? Nice follow up to "flat out stupid."

You stay classy San Diego.

Excellent counterpoint, BTW.

 

[illone]

The entire division is good. Philly still spooks me the most. I worry that they will be taken lightly and they are a proud team with a lot of talent still.

On defense, sure. Their offense doesn't scare anyone, though. Even the hapless Skins have better receivers, lol.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That's an interesting POV, the offense he plays in can have an effect on his completion pct. Consider his splits on pass depth;

Behind Line - 52% completion - 73 attempts
1-10 yards - 64% completion - 264 attemps
11-20 yards - 46% completion - 116 attempts
21-30 yards - 28% completion - 50 attempts

And he only had 27 attempts all year over 30 yards, completing about 18% of them. Normal is around 50%, at least from what I've looked at for QBs with similar deep passing attempts.

I believe you will see all of these numbers increase as he gets more time in that offense. Remember, we are talking about a QB who has only been the starter for one full year. As he gets more time, the offense will expand. So too will his attempts and completion %. It is a predictable evolution that has been played out time and again for as long as I can remember. He will get better and his efficiancy will improve but he will never be comparable to a QB who runs a WCO IMO. The offense is not predicated on the short pass as it is in a WCO. The running game drives that offense as opposed to the short passing game as there staple play.

 

[Hostile]

On defense, sure. Their offense doesn't scare anyone, though. Even the hapless Skins have better receivers, lol.

McNabb healthy is a better weapon than any QB in the division. He's going to want to prove something this year. Nothing is more dangerous than determination mixed with talent and the Eagles have this. 2005 might be an aberation. Until proven otherwise I do not count them as flat lined.

As long as a Defense can beat teams up the Offense just has to be steady. The Eagles are more than capable of that.

Nice fishing expedition with the hapless Skins WRs comment. Shallow and completely useless.

 

[dontpush]

giants....

but if our o-line can control osi, strahan, and kiwi...we will eat they're secondary alive...thats a big if, though.

we just gotta protect drew, and put tons of pressure on eli, and hopefully we can get some turnovers with henry healthy, and the additions of coleman, and watkins.

 

[J-DOG]

who scares u the most?Honestly mine is the Commanders.I hate to admit that.They are going to be very tough unless Brunell goes down.

Agree.
I think our defense can match-up well against thier offense.
My main concern is protecting Bledsoe against thier defense.
The first game we were winning but it was still a struggle to get points.
The second game was just terrible on both sides of the ball.
The skins defense wants to dictate to the offense.
If we can change that around we should beat them.
Giants have good individual parts on both sides. They just did not gel like the skins did last year.
Philly still has Mcnabb but this isnt the same division as a couple of years ago and Mcnabb improvising plays to bail out there offense will not get it done like it use to. You can just feel the Eagles and there team believing that it will....sorry but dem days are over!
The Eagles will be better but not good enough.
The Giants will have thier moments but the NFL will not grant them a 9th home game and thier schedule is tougher.
It will come down to the skins and Cowboys. Just like the old days!

 

[superpunk]

I believe you will see all of these numbers increase as he gets more time in that offense. Remember, we are talking about a QB who has only been the starter for one full year. As he gets more time, the offense will expand. So too will his attempts and completion %. It is a predictable evolution that has been played out time and again for as long as I can remember. He will get better and his efficiancy will improve but he will never be comparable to a QB who runs a WCO IMO. The offense is not predicated on the short pass as it is in a WCO. The running game drives that offense as opposed to the short passing game as there staple play.

It's possible.

I just don't see how a QB whose accuracy was so awful, completely dreadful, gets a get-out-of-jail free card in just blind faith that this is going to improve. Maybe it's the last name, I don't know. I do know that Kyle Orton had a better completion pct. from 21-30 yards than Eli did, and a similar completion pct. overall, throwing to castly inferior weapons, yet somehow everyone's cool with Grossman replacing him, think's it was the right move - but Manning can do nothing but improve. The #1 pick in the draft gets a pass - but he couldn't complete many more passes than Kyle Orton, throwing to a much better supporting cast.

That bewilders me.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

If we take care of our bizness, there is no team in the division or the conference that scares me.

If I really had to pick, it would be the Giants.

Yeah, you and I share the same sentiment. I was concerned about the Giants in the past but I think Eli will be Elinterception machine AGAIN and I think we are on the rise.

Its just not me to think that any teams "scares" Dallas... I never go into a game thinking anything other than "WIN!"

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

McNabb healthy is a better weapon than any QB in the division. He's going to want to prove something this year. Nothing is more dangerous than determination mixed with talent and the Eagles have this. 2005 might be an aberation. Until proven otherwise I do not count them as flat lined.

As long as a Defense can beat teams up the Offense just has to be steady. The Eagles are more than capable of that.

Nice fishing expedition with the hapless Skins WRs comment. Shallow and completely useless.

Yeah but the guy IS a choker. Cant get it done. Does that stooopid michael jackson dance in the endzone. He is toast.

We should put T.O. on defense so he can pick off McNabb's passes

I would just love that!

 

[illone]

McNabb healthy is a better weapon than any QB in the division. He's going to want to prove something this year. Nothing is more dangerous than determination mixed with talent and the Eagles have this. 2005 might be an aberation. Until proven otherwise I do not count them as flat lined.

As long as a Defense can beat teams up the Offense just has to be steady. The Eagles are more than capable of that.

Nice fishing expedition with the hapless Skins WRs comment. Shallow and completely useless.

He has nobody to throw to, though. Your post is filled with 'might' and what if. The Eagles still have no running game and without decent receivers McNabb won't be as effective. Teams will be able to focus on stopping McNabb and Westbrook.

 

[CooterBrown]

Scare is the wrong word. Lets rephase it like this: Who will be the Cowboys' toughest NFC East opponent?

I think it will be the Skins. The talent level across the division is pretty close so I think coaching will be the difference maker. And, not just the head coach. I think the Skins will be better coached than the Giants and Eagles. (It has been a long time since you could say, "better coached" and "skins" in the same sentence.)

But, I think this is the Cowboys' year to reestablish the proper order of things in the division and in the NFL. My prediction:

1. Cowboys
2. Commanders
3. Eagles
4. Giants

 

[Phoenix-Talon]

He has nobody to throw to, though.

I'm just as much in favor of supporting my team as the next fan, but give me a Break here! True, we don't have the quality receivers that some Other teams have, but it unrealistic to say McNabb has absolutely no one to trhow to. If a healthy McNabb is forced out of the pocket, with (as you claim) all of our limited receivers covered by strong secondaries, what do you suppose he's going to do?

Allow me ...

1) run the ball himself

2) dump pass to a tight end

3) hand off to Westbrook or perhaps even one of our healthy FBs

I'm wasting my time ...you aren't listening to me are you? You're already convinced that the Eagles do not have any kind of passing game/receivers.

I guess we'll both see who's right and who's wrong!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

It's possible.

I just don't see how a QB whose accuracy was so awful, completely dreadful, gets a get-out-of-jail free card in just blind faith that this is going to improve. Maybe it's the last name, I don't know. I do know that Kyle Orton had a better completion pct. from 21-30 yards than Eli did, and a similar completion pct. overall, throwing to castly inferior weapons, yet somehow everyone's cool with Grossman replacing him, think's it was the right move - but Manning can do nothing but improve. The #1 pick in the draft gets a pass - but he couldn't complete many more passes than Kyle Orton, throwing to a much better supporting cast.

That bewilders me.

I think your reaching here. I would just say that Eli is not getting a pass, per say, IMO. You have to judge him on what he's done to this point in his career and then you have to look at historical data to try and project into the future. I mean, granted, he could fall apart next year and never be heard from again but history does not suggest this is what will happen. The truth of the matter is that QBs who have the talent base to stick in the NFL normally improve as time goes on. If we look at Manning from his rookie year to last year, he improved in every phase of his game. Nothing that he has done suggest to me that he will take steps backwards. It appears to me that his OL is getting better and that will translate into more time in the pocket. His receivers are going to develop a better feel as well. The timing will come. He's got an excellent running game and that defense is going to help. If your going to look at Manning and compare him to a contemporary like Orton, that's fine. You can do that. You can say that Orton played with less talent and I can probably buy that but you have to look at the whole picture. It's not as if the two are comparable in anything other then the fact that there both young. Orton's APA was 5.08 last year. He played in a very limited offense because of his over all ability, stage of development and talent level. He also threw for 1893 less yards of slightly less then half. Way fewer attempts, completions, 15 fewer TDs and only 4 fewer INTs. All this in only 1 less game. I don't really view it as a pass so much as a situation where everybody understands that Manning is in the process of learning to be a Pro QB.

 

[BigDDynasty]

I say screw 'em all! None of the mentioned "scare" me!

:suxskins: :suxjints: :suxiggle: :skins::jints: :iggles:

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Scare is the wrong word. Lets rephase it like this: Who will be the Cowboys' toughest NFC East opponent?

I think it will be the Skins. The talent level across the division is pretty close so I think coaching will be the difference maker. And, not just the head coach. I think the Skins will be better coached than the Giants and Eagles. (It has been a long time since you could say, "better coached" and "skins" in the same sentence.)

But, I think this is the Cowboys' year to reestablish the proper order of things in the division and in the NFL. My prediction:

1. Cowboys
2. Commanders
3. Eagles
4. Giants

I think it will take time for the Skins to adjust to a new OC, new offense, new WRs. I think there offense might take a step backwards before it ultimatly improves (and eventually, I do believe it will improve). That's really the only reason I don't view them in the same light as I do the Giants.

 

[illone]

I'm just as much in favor of supporting my team as the next fan, but give me a Break here! True, we don't have the quality receivers that some Other teams have, but it unrealistic to say McNabb has absolutely no one to trhow to. If a healthy McNabb is forced out of the pocket, with (as you claim) all of our limited receivers covered by strong secondaries, what do you suppose he's going to do?

Allow me ...

1) run the ball himself

2) dump pass to a tight end

3) hand off to Westbrook or perhaps even one of our healthy FBs

I'm wasting my time ...you aren't listening to me are you? You're already convinced that the Eagles do not have any kind of passing game/receivers.

I guess we'll both see who's right and who's wrong!

Well, I did say nobody decent further along in my post. Of course they have a passing game and receivers. It's still a question mark in my mind as to how effective they'll be, though. With no running game to speak of the Eagles are a one dimentional team with no proven receivers.

 

[Hostile]

He has nobody to throw to, though. Your post is filled with 'might' and what if. The Eagles still have no running game and without decent receivers McNabb won't be as effective. Teams will be able to focus on stopping McNabb and Westbrook.

Actually the whole thread is filled with "mights" and "ifs."

He's had no one to throw it to in the past as well. He's got a fairly decent TE to throw to and Westbrook isn't bad. On top of this he has WRs who could develop into decent weapons. Please note I didn't say elite and I didn't downplay a Commanders WR by saying they can be decent. So don't get all butt sore. Pre-emptive strike, I know how emotional you Skins fans are about your 4 deep WR corps these days.

He has 2 new O-lineman in front of him whom I think are pretty good. He will be healthy. The whole team will be fired up most likely.

You want to write them off, be my guest. I'm not on board until I hear the bugler playing Taps for them.

 

[superpunk]

I think your reaching here. I would just say that Eli is not getting a pass, per say, IMO. You have to judge him on what he's done to this point in his career and then you have to look at historical data to try and project into the future. I mean, granted, he could fall apart next year and never be heard from again but history does not suggest this is what will happen.

I'm not suggesting that's going to happen, either. I just take issue with the notion that it's impossible for Eli to NOT dramatically improve next year. That is not a given. And if he has another year like last year, and Tiki is not completely dominant again, the Giants will struggle.

A big improvement is needed, considering Tiki is 32, IMO. If Tiki kills people next year, and Eli can throw a bunch of TD passes to his enormous targets in the red zone, noone will notice how mediocre he was for another year. Look at the QBs playing with backs who had similar years to Tiki. Did any of them put up such a paltry completion pct? No. Tiki takes enormous pressure off Eli - what's going to happen if that's not there this year? Will he still get better by default?

 

[illone]

Actually the whole thread is filled with "mights" and "ifs."

He's had no one to throw it to in the past as well. He's got a fairly decent TE to throw to and Westbrook isn't bad. On top of this he has WRs who could develop into decent weapons. Please note I didn't say elite and I didn't downplay a Commanders WR by saying they can be decent. So don't get all butt sore. Pre-emptive strike, I know how emotional you Skins fans are about your 4 deep WR corps these days.

He has 2 new O-lineman in front of him whom I think are pretty good. He will be healthy. The whole team will be fired up most likely.

You want to write them off, be my guest. I'm not on board until I hear the bugler playing Taps for them.

I was joking with my WR comment above, hence the 'lol' right after it.

Nowhere have I written off the Eagles, simply pointing out where I think they'll struggle.