Investigators: Vick was at his house when dog fights took place *merged*

Angus

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As far as the NFL is concerned, a conviction in a court of law is not very important. It is the conviction in the court of public opinion that the NFL views with concern.

It is not punishment; it is cutting losses that will compel the NFL to discipline Vick. His baggage is too scattered and too smelly to be disregarded. It will be a business decision, not a legal or moral one that causes the NFL to bring him to heel.

Forget the law and morality involved. Those things are only incidental to what the NFL will do. The sooner players realize that, the sooner their behavior will improve.

:)
 

iceberg

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iceberg;1499977 said:
i agree he should get "due process" just like the rest of us. but it's falling apart around him and his lies are going to be self-inflicted wounds as others come out and refute them with facts.

a couple of years ago my friend told me vick stayed there in the off-season and played his video games to avoid being around people. he knew this cause he does PR for vick and many other pro athletes.

now he's never there? yet people in the area say he's there all the time?

like i said, his lies will catch up to him and cost him even more in the end.

mickgreen58;1499990 said:
You take a very sarcastic tone when stating sentences such as if you wanna buy his lies, up to you, but at the beginning of your post you say this is from the "believe me or don't believe me" category.

Reversing that logic and playing Devil's Advocate, if ThreeSportStar80 wants to believe your lies, it is up to him?

Where there is smoke there is fire, Vick probably is guilty, if not for being directly involved, he probably knew about it, but a man is innocent until proven guilty.

- Mike G.

fanfromvirginia;1500045 said:
Thanks for reminding us that a man is innocent until proven guilty. That will slow down all the calls for throwing him in prison without a trial.:rolleyes:

We know Vick is innocent until proven guilty. We also know that this is a message board, not a court of law. I expect he was all but in charge of the whole sordid mess.


- WG also pointed out he's innocent till proven guilty
- I also agreed he's got his full rights to "Due process".
- MOST PEOPLE IN HERE (myself included) has a predetermination of guilt/innocence. We do it almost every time when things are so one-sided.

he'll get his day in court, to date while many have said he's likely guilty - NO ONE has taken that from him, have they? well, unless you want to "read into" what many have said and assume this is also their "thought process" - but it just isn't that way.

even you "expect" that he was all but in charge of the whole "sordid" mess.

human nature to speculate on such crimes.

i passed on what extra info i know, and got a sermon back to me i just had no use for esp. when i ALREADY SAID he's got his right to due process. if i am wrong because i followed up "due process" w/my opinion, i'm not alone - see bold then maroon above in quotes.

selective reading, i suppose.
 

Maikeru-sama

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iceberg;1500167 said:
- WG also pointed out he's innocent till proven guilty
- I also agreed he's got his full rights to "Due process".
- MOST PEOPLE IN HERE (myself included) has a predetermination of guilt/innocence. We do it almost every time when things are so one-sided.

he'll get his day in court, to date while many have said he's likely guilty - NO ONE has taken that from him, have they? well, unless you want to "read into" what many have said and assume this is also their "thought process" - but it just isn't that way.

even you "expect" that he was all but in charge of the whole "sordid" mess.

human nature to speculate on such crimes.

i passed on what extra info i know, and got a sermon back to me i just had no use for esp. when i ALREADY SAID he's got his right to due process. if i am wrong because i followed up "due process" w/my opinion, i'm not alone - see bold then maroon above in quotes.

selective reading, i suppose.

No my point was that your supposed inside information was just as irrelevant as Vick's claims that he is innocent and has no knowledge of the goings on at said residence when the matter is still being investigated. Yet, in a condescending manner, you tell a poster "believe his lies if you want to" and then proceed to state your own opinion and inside information as if it has any more credibility than according to you, Vick's supposed lies.

No, it is not a case of selective reading, I read everything you wrote and responded accordingly.

And for the record, it is possible to get your point across without typing whole sentences and at times every other word in all caps :rolleyes:.

- Mike G.
 

iceberg

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mickgreen58;1500215 said:
No my point was that your supposed inside information was just as irrelevant as Vick's claims that he is innocent and has no knowledge of the goings on at said residence when the matter is still being investigated. Yet, in a condescending manner, you tell a poster "believe his lies if you want to" and then proceed to state your own opinion and inside information as if it has any more credibility than according to you, Vick's supposed lies.

No, it is not a case of selective reading, I read everything you wrote and responded accordingly.

And for the record, it is possible to get your point across without typing whole sentences and at times every other word in all caps :rolleyes:.

- Mike G.

it's to make up for my serious non-use of caps.

as for the info - don't believe me. i said that also. but from now on i'll keep "extra info" for the smaller boards i'm on that don't do the witch hunt crap on every poster who may have some extra insight.
 

5Stars

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mickgreen58;1500215 said:
No my point was that your supposed inside information was just as irrelevant as Vick's claims that he is innocent and has no knowledge of the goings on at said residence when the matter is still being investigated. Yet, in a condescending manner, you tell a poster "believe his lies if you want to" and then proceed to state your own opinion and inside information as if it has any more credibility than according to you, Vick's supposed lies.

No, it is not a case of selective reading, I read everything you wrote and responded accordingly.

And for the record, it is possible to get your point across without typing whole sentences and at times every other word in all caps :rolleyes:.

- Mike G.


Mickgreen, I have observed that you have a habit of defending guys like Pacman, Vick, even QC...

Somehow, you have a hard time seeing that maybe, just maybe these guys are losers...

What's up with that?
 

Maikeru-sama

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5Stars;1500232 said:
Mickgreen, I have observed that you have a habit of defending guys like Pacman, Vick, even QC...

Somehow, you have a hard time seeing that maybe, just maybe these guys are losers...

What's up with that?

Show me a post where I ever defended a loser like Pacman Jones?

mickgreen58 said:
Where there is smoke there is fire, Vick probably is guilty, if not for being directly involved, he probably knew about it, but a man is innocent until proven guilty.

You really should just come out and accuse me of what you really want to accuse me of instead of dancing around it.

- Mike G.
 

5Stars

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mickgreen58;1500270 said:
Show me a post where I ever defended a loser like Pacman Jones?



You really should just come out and accuse me of what you really want to accuse me of instead of dancing around it.

- Mike G.


:confused: Maybe I was wrong about Pacman....and I have no friggen clue what your other sentence means?

Carry on...
 

fanfromvirginia

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iceberg;1500167 said:
- WG also pointed out he's innocent till proven guilty
- I also agreed he's got his full rights to "Due process".
- MOST PEOPLE IN HERE (myself included) has a predetermination of guilt/innocence. We do it almost every time when things are so one-sided.

he'll get his day in court, to date while many have said he's likely guilty - NO ONE has taken that from him, have they? well, unless you want to "read into" what many have said and assume this is also their "thought process" - but it just isn't that way.

even you "expect" that he was all but in charge of the whole "sordid" mess.

human nature to speculate on such crimes.

i passed on what extra info i know, and got a sermon back to me i just had no use for esp. when i ALREADY SAID he's got his right to due process. if i am wrong because i followed up "due process" w/my opinion, i'm not alone - see bold then maroon above in quotes.

selective reading, i suppose.
Why include me? I'm with you on this...
 

iceberg

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fanfromvirginia;1500277 said:
Why include me? I'm with you on this...

sorry - mickG just made some remark about howpeople are innocent till proven guilty and aimed that at me EVEN AFTER i already said the same thing. your reminder to him just came across to me like someone else didn't see where i did in fact say the same thing. apologies.
 

ajk23az

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Videotapes sought of Vick watching dog fights
By Jason Cole, Yahoo! Sports
May 15, 2007

Jason Cole
Yahoo! Sports
The lead investigator in the case of dog-fighting accusations against Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick said Monday that she believes there is substantial evidence to eventually tie Vick directly to the felony crime.

That evidence could eventually include videotapes of Vick at matches. Kathy Strouse, the Animal Control coordinator for the City of Chesapeake in Virginia, said Monday that she has received a tip from what is described as a "reliable source" that tapes of Vick exist that would tie him directly to the burgeoning scandal and a possible felony charge.

"We don't know where (the tapes) are or if they do indeed exist, but I have been told that they are out there," said Strouse, who is also affiliated with two other organizations involved in the welfare of animals. "Without knowing where they are, there's no possibility of getting a search warrant at this point."

Strouse said she has also talked with individuals who can "put Vick on that property" during matches. However, those individuals have been reluctant to testify at this point, leaving much of the evidence against Vick that has become public at this point as circumstantial.

Last month, Vick's residence in Smithfield, Va., was raided and dog-fighting paraphernalia was confiscated. Vick initially denied any knowledge of the situation, blaming family and friends for the operation. However, Vick declined to comment on the advice of attorneys when approached at the Falcons' mini-camp over the weekend.

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Regardless, Strouse said she is "very confident" about eventually tying Vick directly to the dog fighting based on the evidence she and other investigators have gathered. The information has come after years of talk throughout the Newport News area where Vick grew up that he has been involved in dog fighting.

For her part, Strouse was not backing down and essentially challenged Surry County Commonwealth attorney Gerald Poindexter to charge Vick. Last week, Poindexter made statements indicating he was reluctant to charge anyone with dog fighting.

"He was at the home and saw the equipment that we seized," Strouse said of Poindexter. "When we were there, he said he had enough right there to issue an indictment. He didn't say who he would indict, but he said he had enough.

"Now, with what he has said, it makes you think, 'What in the world is going on in Surry County?' This certainly doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about the Surry County attorney," Strouse said.

Poindexter did not return a call from Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Dog fighting is a felony in 48 states and is a misdemeanor in Idaho and Wyoming. In Virginia, a conviction can carry up to five years in prison and/or a fine of up to $2,500, Strouse said.

Before the NFL draft in late April, Vick met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell to discuss the situation. In addition, Falcons owner Arthur Blank has expressed growing concern with the investigation.

Earlier this offseason, the Falcons traded backup Matt Schaub to the Houston Texans and later signed veteran Joey Harrington to be Vick's primary backup. However, Harrington is not seen as a long-term solution.

On Friday, Vick politely told a group of approximately 30 reporters that he wasn't going to discuss the latest controversy and that the only thing on his mind was football.

"It is still under investigation, and once it is over, we will talk about it. As of right now, I cannot talk about the situation," Vick said. His lone departure from that was to say: "Don't plan on talking about me anymore unless it's about football."

While Vick's non-answer was predictable, it was also an interesting backtrack from only two weeks before. On April 27, the day before the draft, Vick was in New York to promote the NFL Quarterback Challenge. At the time, Vick was asked about the investigation in Virginia and disassociated himself from the house and the investigators' findings.

Vick's response was quickly refuted. According to several media outlets, neighbors said that Vick was seen in the area regularly and had even purchased materials such as syringes, which are often used in the training of dogs for fighting.

On Friday, NFL scout, one-time Yahoo! Sports analyst and current FOX Sports Radio host Chris Landry took it a step further during an interview on 620 WDAE in Tampa, Fla. Landry said that Ray Buchanan, a former Atlanta defensive back, told him that Vick has been involved in dog fighting for years.

"(Buchanan) tells me that Michael has been into this dog fighting for so long that … he not only knew about, he is behind all of it," Landry said. "He's paying for all of it … Apparently, he's into it big time."

Buchanan strongly denied saying any of that when contacted by Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

"I have to talk to Chris about all of that because I didn't say anything like that at all," Buchanan said. "If I was going to say any of that, I would have said it myself on my own radio program. I don't know anything about Michael being involved in any of that and I would not snitch on a player if I did. I'm a player's mouthpiece."

These developments led to conjecture about whether Vick will get in trouble with federal authorities and/or the NFL. Blank told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution last week that he is obviously concerned.

"From the facts we have so far, it's not a pretty picture. It's clearly an issue, and we'll wait to see what revolves around it," Blank said.
 

fanfromvirginia

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iceberg;1500282 said:
sorry - mickG just made some remark about howpeople are innocent till proven guilty and aimed that at me EVEN AFTER i already said the same thing. your reminder to him just came across to me like someone else didn't see where i did in fact say the same thing. apologies.
No problem. :)
 

Vintage

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We'll see if anything happens or not.

So far, we are only getting one side of the story.
 

AtlCB

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If these tapes exist, Vick will be suspended shortly after they are made public. He still will find a way to weasel out of any felonies.
 

Hostile

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Just a comment about "innocent until proven guilty." That promise does not stall the right to free speech and opinion. It is more an instruction for a jury so that an accused can have a fair trial. Nowhere does it say that those not on the jury can't form their own opinions or state their own feelings on a subject.

Jeffrey Dahmer was innocent until proven guilty despite the fact there were dead bodies in his apartment and a man accusing him of trying to kill him. From where I sit, Dahmer was guilty as sin and I didn't need a judge or jury to tell me otherwise.

We all do that. The problem is we too often let our personal feelings interfere. If we like a guy and see others "convicting" him (for lack of a better description) we will immediately jump to his defense and say he is "innocent until proven guilty." In truth, if he did it, no he isn't. Again, that is a principle for a jury to agree to, and decide. The rest of us have every right to our opinions on a matter, and from there the right to speak out minds.
 

DallasEast

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Hostile;1500305 said:
Just a comment about "innocent until proven guilty." That promise does not stall the right to free speech and opinion. It is more an instruction for a jury so that an accused can have a fair trial. Nowhere does it say that those not on the jury can't form their own opinions or state their own feelings on a subject.

Jeffrey Dahmer was innocent until proven guilty despite the fact there were dead bodies in his apartment and a man accusing him of trying to kill him. From where I sit, Dahmer was guilty as sin and I didn't need a judge or jury to tell me otherwise.

We all do that. The problem is we too often let our personal feelings interfere. If we like a guy and see others "convicting" him (for lack of a better description) we will immediately jump to his defense and say he is "innocent until proven guilty." In truth, if he did it, no he isn't. Again, that is a principle for a jury to agree to, and decide. The rest of us have every right to our opinions on a matter, and from there the right to speak out minds.
That's 'refrigerated dead body parts'. Sorry about the nitpicking. :eek:: Carry on.
 

Hostile

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DallasEast;1500309 said:
That's 'refrigerated dead body parts'. Sorry about the nitpicking. :eek:: Carry on.
Did you hear his apartment is for rent again? The ad says, comes with a roomate, some assembly required.















Bad Hos.
 

DallasEast

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Hostile;1500319 said:
Did you hear his apartment is for rent again? The ad says, comes with a roomate, some assembly required.















Bad Hos.
Yeah, 'bad Hos'. :D The roommate's name wouldn't happen to be Vanderjadt, would it? :)
 

Vintage

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Hostile;1500305 said:
Just a comment about "innocent until proven guilty." That promise does not stall the right to free speech and opinion. It is more an instruction for a jury so that an accused can have a fair trial. Nowhere does it say that those not on the jury can't form their own opinions or state their own feelings on a subject.

I was never clamoring that Vick was innocent. All I ever kept saying was that Vick is to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise; or that Vick isn't guilty - yet - of anything. Charges haven't even been filed yet.

Jeffrey Dahmer was innocent until proven guilty despite the fact there were dead bodies in his apartment and a man accusing him of trying to kill him. From where I sit, Dahmer was guilty as sin and I didn't need a judge or jury to tell me otherwise.

Dahmer was the ONLY one who lived in his room. He didn't have other people living with him.

Dahmer actually lived there.

Off topic: But my apartment on campus is only a couple of blocks from where Dahmer lived.....

We all do that. The problem is we too often let our personal feelings interfere.

It goes both ways...

If we like a guy and see others "convicting" him (for lack of a better description) we will immediately jump to his defense and say he is "innocent until proven guilty."

Or we don't like a guy and see others "convicting" him (for lack of a better description) we will immediately jump on the attack and say he undoubtedly ________ (whatever)


In truth, if he did it, no he isn't.

Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

Again, that is a principle for a jury to agree to, and decide. The rest of us have every right to our opinions on a matter, and from there the right to speak out minds.

As do those who wish to defend Vick or those (like me) who want to see all of the evidence before I condemn him.

Do I not have my supposed right to claim that its premature to "label" him guilty...?
 
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