Is Dak a so-called bus driver?

[Doomsday101]

They are trying to make the case that passing yardage is a stand alone measure of a QB, and it doesn't matter about things like how often the team runs the ball, or QB rating, or total TDs or contributions as a running QB. I'll be the first to admit that the jury is still out on Dak, but this notion that his passing yardage tells the whole story is ridiculous.

I agree. His job is to run the offense and a big part of this offense is running the ball. There are things Dak needs to improve on from last season one he has to do a better job of avoiding the sack going from 32 in 2017 to 56 is a big jump and while I don't think it was all on him he needs to do a better job of getting rid of it or taking off if he has to. The 12 fumbles in which he lost 6 of them is a must area he needs to improve on, protecting the ball is a must. But I also think there were many things he improved on his yards per game went up from 207 to 242 last season, his completion rate went from 62.9 to 67.7 and his ints went down from 2017. I see a young QB who is still learning and developing, he did not sit for 3 to 4 season learning as Romo did, Dak was thrown in the pressure cooker day 1 and has faired a hell of a lot better than many QB who have came through Dallas.

 

[CF74]

Borderline but leaning more towards no. He is however a very conservative passer which is why he gets the label.. When the chips are down he typically elevates his game and more often than not, the team wins..

Bus drivers require their defense to keep the other team below 17 points in order to have success and they don’t mount comebacks...

We have seen Dak lead the team back while being down multiple scores...

 

[OmerV]

Dont talk to me about Troys TD passing. He had the 2nd all time leader in TDs on his team. Trying to use that against Troy would be the same as using the Playmaker’s lack of TDs against him. Here, Dak doesnt have that issue. Zeke hasnt played in a total of 8 games here. Dak has thrown for a total of 9 Tds. 7 of those came from the same trash team.

You really have a hard time understanding what people write. I have repeatedly indicated, both by context and by specifically saying so, that I am not talking down Aikman, but rather using Aikman as an example that statistics do not tell the whole story. I've repeatedly told you this, and even specifically talked about how much I thought of Troy as a QB, but I suppose if you would acknowledge that you would lose your point of contention. Better to simply make up a version of what I'm saying than to go with the truth and hurt your narrative, right?

As for Aikman being second in TD's on his team in passing TD's, that's a volume number, and a function of having thrown a lot more passes over his career than White or Staubach. He has 10 more TD's than White, but threw 1,765 more passes, and 12 more TD's than Staubach, but threw 1,757 more passes. If you look at TD% White and Staubach are way above Aikman (5.2% and 5.3% as opposed to 3.5%).

But you are still missing the point. Volume isn't the standard - functioning within the dynamics of the team is. If it works it doesn't matter if the QB threw for 270 yards per game and 30 TDs, or 220 yards per game and 19 TD's.

 

[OmerV]

Lol...Okay, I must have read your post wrong.

You had to look at the context. The guy I quoted and responded to had said that Dak was a bus driver, but that Brees was also a bus driver.

 

[CouchCoach]

well, this argument sounds like as if you are settling. there is not another guy (and I don't disagree) and thus he is our guy, throw money at him and make him sound like he is elite through a bunch of meaningless stats.

I am not opposed to giving him 20-25 a year or more....if he gets that...great. good for him. he should be proud. but what I do know that without a true #1, a great OL, a great RB and a defense to protect him in games he lays an egg, he won't be the same QB. so why is there a concern about giving him too much? as a fan, I know then money will be limited in getting him the #1 Wr he needs, signing the probowl OL men he needs, getting him the top TE he needs and signing the defensive players we need...so that impacts the cowboys. if those weren't an issue, I wish he gets 35 mill a year...who cares.....its not about that...its about cowboys success. right now, I don't buy into him being an elite QB and getting elite money.

with that said, yes, there isn't another guy right now...but should we stop looking? if we pay him 25 mill because right now there isn't another guy, then we will stop looking. cost of cutting or replacing him will be too much and no team will do that....like Vikings, they are stuck with Cousins for the next two years, wether they like it or not.

secondly, QBs in the league must pass to succeed. very few non passing QBs succeed and those who run too much, get hurt. ...cam newton, who is bigger, badder and faster and better passer than Dak got injured. hits add up...I don't want him to run the ball like a RB. we draft and sign a RB to that....

Dak is got a little ways to go. I don't want to sound all negative....his QB skills leave some to be desired, but he has the intangibles, like leadership, drive, commitment (maybe) but his passing skills, fundamentals will need a lot of work. after 7 years of college and pros, can he effectively change his footwork...the most fundamental of things for a QB.... his ability to sense pressure, how he reacts to pressure, holding the ball too long, reading defenses......

Not settling, accepting that which I have no control over and making the best of it.

I don't get using the energy to swim upstream and fight the current. I prefer to make the best of it and do my best to sell myself in advance of what I perceive to be an impending event.

There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, threats to leave the team and some blaming the Daksters for him getting the biggest deal in Cowboys history. It's going to be a long replay of the Romofest, you can already see it coming.

If I had my choice, I would prefer to let him play it out and see if there was a shot at getting Tua or tag him and try for Lawrence in 2021 but neither of those are really feasible as there will be many suitors for both of those players. So, I guess I am settling after all and trying to make the best of it. At least he's not as careless with the ball passing as Romo was but the fumbling has to stop. 25-28M and turning the ball over behind our own line and I may go to the Dakaters rush party.

 

[Idgit]

In that regard, he's only played 3 years so I can use that argument to throw out everything he's ever done because he's not a 15 year vet with proven sustainability. Every single individual snap matters like life and death. It's never 'just 20 snaps'. Every single one of those snaps were one of the most important snaps of that game, of that month, maybe of that season, hence going for it on 4th down. Even if its a hail mary getting picked as time expires, its because you put your team in that position to lose, you needed that hail mary just to compete. Still telling.

There’s a statistically relevant difference between performance on a down where he has ~450 attempts for one where he’s got 20. Especially because end-of-game fourth downs obviously skew towards risky pass attempts. When the sample is small and skewed, it’s not indicative of much.

 

[RS12]

Well said. Obviously Troy needed Elite supporting cast . And look what he did with it.

Merideth, Morton and White had a pretty good supporting cast going to championship appearances but only one QB elevated us to a championship.

I think the question for Dak is ; how much elite surrounding support does he need to elevate us to the next level?

Not directed at you but your thought spurred mine.

Excellent post and I was a Dandy Don fan. Who was the TE the did his best Jackie Smith impression in the 1966 Championship game vs GB? Not particularly a Morton fan.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Not settling, accepting that which I have no control over and making the best of it.

I don't get using the energy to swim upstream and fight the current. I prefer to make the best of it and do my best to sell myself in advance of what I perceive to be an impending event.

There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, threats to leave the team and some blaming the Daksters for him getting the biggest deal in Cowboys history. It's going to be a long replay of the Romofest, you can already see it coming.

If I had my choice, I would prefer to let him play it out and see if there was a shot at getting Tua or tag him and try for Lawrence in 2021 but neither of those are really feasible as there will be many suitors for both of those players. So, I guess I am settling after all and trying to make the best of it. At least he's not as careless with the ball passing as Romo was but the fumbling has to stop. 25-28M and turning the ball over behind our own line and I may go to the Dakaters rush party.

fir enough, but settling doesn't mean that Dak is above criticism because we have no other choice. that's the problem with Dak lovers as they try to paint him as an elite and excuse every wart and blame everyone else for his shortcomings except Dak.

 

[OmerV]

In that regard, he's only played 3 years so I can use that argument to throw out everything he's ever done because he's not a 15 year vet with proven sustainability. Every single individual snap matters like life and death. It's never 'just 20 snaps'. Every single one of those snaps were one of the most important snaps of that game, of that month, maybe of that season, hence going for it on 4th down. Even if its a hail mary getting picked as time expires, its because you put your team in that position to lose, you needed that hail mary just to compete. Still telling.

By this argument the perception of a QB changes every play, and based only on the results of that play without regard for circumstances.

 

[CouchCoach]

fir enough, but settling doesn't mean that Dak is above criticism because we have no other choice. that's the problem with Dak lovers as they try to paint him as an elite and excuse every wart and blame everyone else for his shortcomings except Dak.

Agree, but that was the same with Romo. The argument for or against just picked up steam and was so bad on DC.com that they forbade Romo threads and set up a sub forum and posters were catching time outs left and right. I would have sworn Romo was either family or had taken a poster's woman or money or both.

 

[OmerV]

Agree, but that was the same with Romo. The argument for or against just picked up steam and was so bad on DC.com that they forbade Romo threads and set up a sub forum and posters were catching time outs left and right. I would have sworn Romo was either family or had taken a poster's woman or money or both.

On this board it seems there is a scarcity of people that can acknowledge both the positive and the negative. Too many seem to only be able to talk about extremes.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Agree, but that was the same with Romo. The argument for or against just picked up steam and was so bad on DC.com that they forbade Romo threads and set up a sub forum and posters were catching time outs left and right. I would have sworn Romo was either family or had taken a poster's woman or money or both.

yes, it wasn't any less with Romo...

and there was also a little of it with Aikman....much less though

 

[G2]

Who knows what but what I find fascinating from the pro-Dak crowd is that they have literally argued in the past that you can't judge Dak until he has great talent around him (and better coaching). In essence, that's basically calling him a bus driver.

When you look at his three years here, he absolutely struggled at times when the perfect conditions (great OL, Zeke, good WRs) weren't there.

I know you're not a Prescott fan, but what QB DOESN'T need talent around him? It's also disingenuous to suggest the O line, RB and WR's are perfect conditions. That's false. They've all had ups and downs along with Prescott. It's also false to suggest Prescott struggled when those units weren't perfect.

 

[G2]

On this board it seems there is a scarcity of people that can acknowledge both the positive and the negative. Too many seem to only be able to talk about extremes.

This is true. And also those who ignore fans who recognize the good and the bad other fans address.

 

[Established1971]

I'm starting with my answer......No ( two words.....his resume)

I think he is better than that, but I dont think he will end up in the Ring of Honor, I guess will be one way to put it.

 

[Frozen700]

YES



If you think otherwise, youre just a fanboy

This.

I don't know how else to put it

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

There’s a statistically relevant difference between performance on a down where he has ~450 attempts for one where he’s got 20. Especially because end-of-game fourth downs obviously skew towards risky pass attempts. When the sample is small and skewed, it’s not indicative of much.

If the clutch moments are always few and far between. If a qb needs as many as ~450 snaps to prove he’s good in tight situations, I’ve got bad news for you

 

[Sydla]

I know you're not a Prescott fan, but what QB DOESN'T need talent around him? It's also disingenuous to suggest the O line, RB and WR's are perfect conditions. That's false. They've all had ups and downs along with Prescott. It's also false to suggest Prescott struggled when those units weren't perfect.

It's not that I don't "like" Prescott. I just don't believe he's this great or even really good QB some of you think he is, at least not yet.

I want to see him play in 2019 before I hand him an upper echelon QB contract. I think there is enough evidence out there to warrant waiting on him. If he plays very well, I have little problem paying him a realistic contract.

It's not false or disingenuous to state he's played better when conditions around him have been fairly ideal and his play has tailed off when they have not. He's not shown to be the type of QB that makes players around him better. He has to have players around him to get the most out of him.

Some of his worst play came when the OL got banged up and Elliott was out. His play tailed off significantly during that stretch. I mean look at his play when things weren't ideal for him - he was OK against Atlanta, then terrible against the Eagles and Chargers. Was decent against the Skins and then lit up the woeful Giants before sucking terribly against the Raiders.

Last year, he was much better when they acquired Cooper than prior to his arrival. So, to me, there is strong evidence that Dak is closer to game manager than upper echelon QB. But I'd like to see the 2019 season before making a financial decision on him one way or the other.

That's not to say all QBs don't need some good players around them but Dak is more reliant on having great players around him than other top QBs.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

By this argument the perception of a QB changes every play, and based only on the results of that play without regard for circumstances.

Nearly every 4th down play, yeah. 20 4th downs in 48 career games is about 1 every 2-3 weeks. I Think it’s relatively accurate to say our perception of a QB can change in as little as 3 weeks. Rivers is done! .... Well, nice start to the season... Rivers might make the Pro Bowl? ... Rivers is elite! ... *plays Brady in playoffs* Rivers still done.

 

[stiletto]

That's not to say all QBs don't need some good players around them but Dak is more reliant on having great players around him than other top QBs.

You mean like all the ones that have > 10 years more experience than Dak does?? Even then outside of maybe Brady I can't think of another one that didn't have amazing receivers and/or RB's playing with them. Rodgers lately hasn't had great talent around him and he's really gotten nowhere except hurt...Brees has had amazing WR's/RB's. Brady is really who you are comparing Dak to for the most part.