Is Dak a so-called bus driver?

[DandyDon52]

There are 7,530,000,000 people in the world.

There are 32 nfl starting QB's.

There are about 3-5 guys that no one will argue are not bus drivers.

There are about 15 guys that are barely holding on.

There are about 12 guys that are capable of consistently winning if the rest of the talent is right. (Dak, Goff, Wentz, Newton, Watson ect).

There are about 100 people that will read this and wonder what my point is.

There are 25 people that will read this and consider giving me a 'like' but are stingy with their 'likes'.

There is 1 that knows my point and he isnt telling. (me)

lol I agree, except I think they are all bus drivers, some are just better at driving a bus ! lol
and it varys game to game season to season with each qb.
every qb has ups and downs in a game and in a season.
Even brady and rodgers have bad games or parts of games. They just might be more consistent with being good bus driver.
The other players have an effect on each qb, the better their team mates are the better they can be.
Same for coaching which can have a big effect on how a qb does. which includes game plans, playbooks and play design and play calling.

Why do you think GB coach was let go? they felt he was not doing good enough with Rodgers at qb.
They expect better results with new coaches, and they are right, if they get the right new coaches.

So I would answer OP that yes Dak is a bus driver, but so are all the others, and Dak is above avg bus driver, which
isnt bad if you look at the coaches dallas has had and still have.
Dallas got a new coach, in kellen and kitna, they expect the offense to be more productive, and it might be.

 

[Sydla]

You mean like all the ones that have > 10 years more experience than Dak does?? Even then outside of maybe Brady I can't think of another one that didn't have amazing receivers and/or RB's playing with them. Rodgers lately hasn't had great talent around him and he's really gotten nowhere except hurt...Brees has had amazing WR's/RB's. Brady is really who you are comparing Dak to for the most part.

The point is I don't know what Dak is right now. It's not a surprise to anyone who pays attention that his play has been poorest when he's not had ideal conditions around him. He had few terrible games in 2016 when the OL was mauling people, Elliott was running over people and Beasley and even Dez were threats in the passing game.

2017, his play dropped. The OL was more banged up, Dez went into the toilet, Elliott got suspended, etc. His play clearly regressed.

2018 was an improvement over 2017 for sure but still, it was clear he played better later in the year when the OL seemed to get healthier and more consistent (granted, they weren't great), Elliott seemingly was more effective and they added Cooper.

All I am saying is that I have yet to see anything that tells me one way or another what kind of QB Dak is. My guess is his ceiling is roughly where I have him ranked as a QB - in the 10-14 range. But before I commit a ridiculous contract to him, I'd like to see the 2019 season.

People assume I think Dak sucks and is the worst and I don't want him back. That's BS. But I guess if you aren't blowing smoke up his *** like some here, then you are a Dak "hater".

 

[RoboQB]

How do you define "bus driver". I think most would say it's a player who rarely ever carries the team with his arm and relies more on safe passes and a running game to gain yardage and score points.

However, if one followed that by saying that defines Troy Aikman, they likely would backpedal. The reality is, Troy never had a 20 TD season, and he averaged less than 200 yards per game over his career (199.6).

So, that leaves the question of whether there are assets aside from passing stats that can elevate a player above "bus driver" status.

With Aikman, most would point to his leadership, and his demand for excellence and precision and hard work and dedication. He was the man in control and that directed the offense on the field. Dak seems to have some of that, but I can't say it's enough to put him in the same category with Aikman. Dak does put up better passing stats though, and has a better QB rating.

So where does that leave us? For me, I would say Dak is more than a bus driver. What I don't yet know is how far he can take us given the current team, including coaching and players.

Aikman had 23 tds in 1992 and 19 in 1997. Coincidentally, those were in two of the three
seasons in which he played in all 16 games.

He is also, unofficially, the all-time leader of Cowboys QBs in passes completed to the
1 yard line. (I have no info to back this up, but he and Irvin probably did this a dozen times or more, lol.)

 

[Idgit]

If the clutch moments are always few and far between. If a qb needs as many as ~450 snaps to prove he’s good in tight situations, I’ve got bad news for you

The clutch moments aren't few and far between with Dak, though. They just mostly didn't happen in the 20 fourth down passing situations you're trying to emphasize.

 

[Diehardblues]

Excellent post and I was a Dandy Don fan. Who was the TE the did his best Jackie Smith impression in the 1966 Championship game vs GB? Not particularly a Morton fan.

Pettis Norman?

And thanks..

 

[Diehardblues]

Dak would be a great backup QB. Perhaps the best in at least this era. If we weren’t such a poorly ran franchise we would have recognized it. But we’re so desperate for the first thing that looks like our savior.

 

[Sydla]

Dak would be a great backup QB. Perhaps the best in at least this era. If we weren’t such a poorly ran franchise we would have recognized it. But we’re so desperate for the first thing that looks like our savior.

See now this is over the top.

He's better than a backup QB. Shoot, he's better than a good 10 starting QBs in the league.

 

[Diehardblues]

Therein lies the rub, just where is that more prolific passer? This is not a choice of Prescott v that guy. That guy does not exist at this point because none of the Tier 1 QB's that are considered prolific passers are available and going for a perceived one in the draft makes it even more difficult to surround him with talent because they'd have to give up the farm.

Aikman wasn't a prolific passer, he was deadly accurate but not prolific and he didn't need to be because the offense wasn't built around that just as this one is not.

All that are not satisfied with Dak Prescott need to stop dwelling on what they perceive to not be there and consider what is there because he is going to be the DC QB1. Those that call him inaccurate, that is an inaccurate statement, he has consistency challenges with his accuracy. And while I agree with Aikman that accuracy issues aren't easily corrected at this level, a consistency issue is different. I also take exception with those giving him an excuse with coaching, they haven't thrown one pass.

He can pull it down and use his legs, is built like a RB and has been very durable. Unlike the Eagles fans, our challenger for the division title, we do not have to be concerned with our backup QB. He's shown leadership skills since high school and once he gets the QB1 job, he instills confidence from his coaches and teammates.

The problem some have with Prescott is the same problem some had with Romo, the lack of a pedigree. What's this? An UDFA QB handing off to a 4th rounder? This is the Dallas Cowboys, that cannot be. Brady was a 6th rounder but he replaced a #1 pick.

He's won the East 2 out of 3 seasons and never had a losing season. He has done for the Cowboys what he did for the Bulldogs and his high school team, won. I mentioned that there are two types of QB's, those that lift those around them and those that need to be lifted. Initially, I had Dak pegged as the latter but now I am rethinking that because while he was the QB that took them to 3-5, he was also the one that took them to 7-1 and the division. Doesn't matter what any of us think about him, it only matters what his teammates think.

Yep

If we’d of kept Dak as our backup our options would be much greater. Let the Romo thing play out. If he’s knocked out for good then we move on. Maybe draft another one to see who earns the job with Dak. We won’t even allow some reputable competition.

Coach, the answer or choice is always in the draft for our next QB. Or should be anyway. We have the surrounding support that should be able to prop one up much like it did Dak. And you get a few years to see and or draft again.

But digging in here it limits our choices. This is it. For better or worse. And if it doesn’t get any better , maybe this will be enough to win a few divisions and a couple playoff games.

If I was the owner I’d swing for the fences. Until I hit the lotto with a QB. But if you already think you have then you don’t go to bat.

 

[Diehardblues]

See now this is over the top.

He's better than a backup QB. Shoot, he's better than a good 10 starting QBs in the league.

Yes he is. But like I said. He could have been the best backup in the league. And we could have kept a better QB until he dropped. And had best of both worlds.

You read into my post what you wanted to. I didn’t say he was only a backup. Being better than 10 starting QB in the league doesn’t overly impress me. That means there might Be 20 better than him.

 

[OmerV]

Nearly every 4th down play, yeah. 20 4th downs in 48 career games is about 1 every 2-3 weeks. I Think it’s relatively accurate to say our perception of a QB can change in as little as 3 weeks. Rivers is done! .... Well, nice start to the season... Rivers might make the Pro Bowl? ... Rivers is elite! ... *plays Brady in playoffs* Rivers still done.

Looking at every 4th down play is looking at history, not just play by play. So, again, history does matter, and individual plays can't be looked individually to judge a QB. Your talk about Rivers just highlights that point. Obviously there are some people whose perceptions can change that readily, but history shows that neither a fair or rational method of developing perceptions. Time truly is what tells, not individual plays or games or even a short stretch of games.

 

[G2]

It's not that I don't "like" Prescott. I just don't believe he's this great or even really good QB some of you think he is, at least not yet.

I want to see him play in 2019 before I hand him an upper echelon QB contract. I think there is enough evidence out there to warrant waiting on him. If he plays very well, I have little problem paying him a realistic contract.

It's not false or disingenuous to state he's played better when conditions around him have been fairly ideal and his play has tailed off when they have not. He's not shown to be the type of QB that makes players around him better. He has to have players around him to get the most out of him.

Some of his worst play came when the OL got banged up and Elliott was out. His play tailed off significantly during that stretch. I mean look at his play when things weren't ideal for him - he was OK against Atlanta, then terrible against the Eagles and Chargers. Was decent against the Skins and then lit up the woeful Giants before sucking terribly against the Raiders.

Last year, he was much better when they acquired Cooper than prior to his arrival. So, to me, there is strong evidence that Dak is closer to game manager than upper echelon QB. But I'd like to see the 2019 season before making a financial decision on him one way or the other.

That's not to say all QBs don't need some good players around them but Dak is more reliant on having great players around him than other top QBs.

That's how football works. If a QB is missing key components, the team will struggle. Look at our last one. His best season was when Murray ran the ball better than any Dallas RB. And he had HOF players to throw to.
He's NOT elite and I never said he was. But he's very good and his numbers in 3 seasons reflect that.

Waiting is a mistake. The market will continue to go up. And what some fans are forgetting is that there are older contracts yet to be extended and this will drive it even higher.

 

[OmerV]

Aikman had 23 tds in 1992 and 19 in 1997. Coincidentally, those were in two of the three
seasons in which he played in all 16 games.

He is also, unofficially, the all-time leader of Cowboys QBs in passes completed to the
1 yard line. (I have no info to back this up, but he and Irvin probably did this a dozen times or more, lol.)

I caught my mistake later on the 20 TD season, and have said that in this thread. And though it's unofficial, it wouldn't shock me in the least if it were true he completed more passes to the 1 yard line than any Cowboy QB, both from the standpoint that Aikman was very good at moving the ball within that offense, and the fact that he threw more passes than any QB in Cowboy history.

I want to make sure you aren't missing the context of my comments though. I'm not downgrading Aikman at all. I think he was a great QB. I just think he can't be fairly judged simply by looking at statistics. Same goes for Dak - not that Dak is as good as Aikman was (he isn't), but the point is there are more factors that go into what makes an outstanding QB than yardage and TD totals. The primary goal is directing an offense that functions at a high level.

 

[Sydla]

That's how football works. If a QB is missing key components, the team will struggle. Look at our last one. His best season was when Murray ran the ball better than any Dallas RB. And he had HOF players to throw to.
He's NOT elite and I never said he was. But he's very good and his numbers in 3 seasons reflect that.

Waiting is a mistake. The market will continue to go up. And what some fans are forgetting is that there are older contracts yet to be extended and this will drive it even higher.

Waiting one year is not a mistake.

The market won't fall off a cliff in a year where the next QB gets $40MM a year.

If Dak plays well in 2019, he'll get $35MM or so like Wilson. I don't see the rush to sign him to something that could approach $30MM right now when you aren't 100% sure he's worth that money. I'd rather pay him $35MM AAV in a year after he had a hugely successful season than pay him close to $30MM now and he goes on and is just that slightly above average QB between the great season of 2016 and the crappy one of 2017.

This notion that you have to sign him now because of the market inflation is just a bad way of doing business.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's how football works. If a QB is missing key components, the team will struggle. Look at our last one. His best season was when Murray ran the ball better than any Dallas RB. And he had HOF players to throw to.
He's NOT elite and I never said he was. But he's very good and his numbers in 3 seasons reflect that.

Waiting is a mistake. The market will continue to go up. And what some fans are forgetting is that there are older contracts yet to be extended and this will drive it even higher.

The difference though is that Romo didn’t necessarily struggle producing without a more elite surrounding support . The team just struggled winning.

In fact Romo actually elevated less than Elite talent around him. 2014 was his most effective season but not most productive in passing because we didn’t need his passing production as much to carry the offense.

 

[Diehardblues]

Waiting one year is not a mistake.

The market won't fall off a cliff in a year where the next QB gets $40MM a year.

If Dak plays well in 2019, he'll get $35MM or so like Wilson. I don't see the rush to sign him to something that could approach $30MM right now when you aren't 100% sure he's worth that money. I'd rather pay him $35MM AAV in a year after he had a hugely successful season than pay him close to $30MM now and he goes on and is just that slightly above average QB between the great season of 2016 and the crappy one of 2017.

This notion that you have to sign him now because of the market inflation is just a bad way of doing business.

My impression from the vibe from our FO is that signing him now needs to be more team friendly which is the incentive for us not to wait.

If we’re going to pay big money then why not wait another year to totally justify it?

 

[Diehardblues]

I caught my mistake later on the 20 TD season, and have said that in this thread. And though it's unofficial, it wouldn't shock me in the least if it were true he completed more passes to the 1 yard line than any Cowboy QB, both from the standpoint that Aikman was very good at moving the ball within that offense, and the fact that he threw more passes than any QB in Cowboy history.

I want to make sure you aren't missing the context of my comments though. I'm not downgrading Aikman at all. I think he was a great QB. I just think he can't be fairly judged simply by looking at statistics. Same goes for Dak - not that Dak is as good as Aikman was (he isn't), but the point is there are more factors that go into what makes an outstanding QB than yardage and TD totals. The primary goal is directing an offense that functions at a high level.

Do you think our passing offense functions at a high level with Dak?

 

[Diehardblues]

Who is Dak elevating around him with his passing ability? This might make a good thread on its own.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

They used to call Rusty Wilson a bus driver. Now he's the best paid bus driver in the world!!

rusty won a superbowl and went to another and his headcoach screwed up with the play call.....

 

[stiletto]

The point is I don't know what Dak is right now. It's not a surprise to anyone who pays attention that his play has been poorest when he's not had ideal conditions around him. He had few terrible games in 2016 when the OL was mauling people, Elliott was running over people and Beasley and even Dez were threats in the passing game.

2017, his play dropped. The OL was more banged up, Dez went into the toilet, Elliott got suspended, etc. His play clearly regressed.

2018 was an improvement over 2017 for sure but still, it was clear he played better later in the year when the OL seemed to get healthier and more consistent (granted, they weren't great), Elliott seemingly was more effective and they added Cooper.

All I am saying is that I have yet to see anything that tells me one way or another what kind of QB Dak is. My guess is his ceiling is roughly where I have him ranked as a QB - in the 10-14 range. But before I commit a ridiculous contract to him, I'd like to see the 2019 season.

People assume I think Dak sucks and is the worst and I don't want him back. That's BS. But I guess if you aren't blowing smoke up his *** like some here, then you are a Dak "hater".

Fair enough. I Just don't think you can compare him to guys who've played for 10+ years yet either and some people like to do that as well...I do think it would be better if we can sign him to a modest/team friendly salary now. I think that would be a win-win. Even if he busts (which I don't think he will). Better than letting him get another level of playoff success or something better then having to pay him....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

How do you define "bus driver". I think most would say it's a player who rarely ever carries the team with his arm and relies more on safe passes and a running game to gain yardage and score points.

However, if one followed that by saying that defines Troy Aikman, they likely would backpedal. The reality is, Troy never had a 20 TD season, and he averaged less than 200 yards per game over his career (199.6).

So, that leaves the question of whether there are assets aside from passing stats that can elevate a player above "bus driver" status.

With Aikman, most would point to his leadership, and his demand for excellence and precision and hard work and dedication. He was the man in control and that directed the offense on the field. Dak seems to have some of that, but I can't say it's enough to put him in the same category with Aikman. Dak does put up better passing stats though, and has a better QB rating.

So where does that leave us? For me, I would say Dak is more than a bus driver. What I don't yet know is how far he can take us given the current team, including coaching and players.

aikman played over 20 years ago....different game. where did Aikman rank against his contemporaries of the time. Aikman is a HOFer...unanimous HOFer.... come on man....