Is Dak the only super greedy QB in Cowboys history?

[DallasEast]

And hopefully the millionth time is a charm...Dak was runner up in MVP. Nobody said he was "runner up for 1st place votes".....This is the dumbest argument i've ever seen on this site by far. All to discredit Dak's season. Despite struggling the first 4 weeks of the season he still had a MVP season and you guys are talking about 1st and 2nd place votes....just pure lunacy.

Bold> That may be the case for some members' comments but it is disingenuous ignoring how Dak Prescott became the MVP runner-up. The Associated Press modified their decades-old system to base points on first-to-fifth place ballots.

First place votes still mean something after they implemented the change. It was only possible for Lamar Jackson to win MVP by an outrageous margin because he received 49 out of 50 first-place ballots. Those 49 first-place ballots accounted for 490 of the 493 points he accumulated. Jackson did not win squat with only the 3 points he received for the single third-place ballot someone cast for him.

Per the AP's November 18, 2022 press release (link):

The essence of the AP NFL Awards remains the same – to recognize the top performers of the season,” AP Global Sports Editor Ricardo Zuniga said. “Our goal is to provide the voters with an accurate and fair voting system to reflect their preferences. These tweaks will help them in their selection process...​

​

...Voters will rank their top five picks for MVP...​

​

Each of the 50 APs representatives picked five players as their 2023 MVP. This is their side-by-side votes between the winner and runner up:

• First-place ballot: 49 AP representatives voted for Jackson, Zero AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Second-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 17 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Third-place ballot: 1 AP representative voted for Jackson, 13 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fourth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 11 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fifth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 6 AP representatives voted for Prescott

Each first-place ballot carries the most weight, assigning 10 points per ballot.

Summary: 49 out of 50 AP representatives considered Jackson as the league MVP. The remaining AP representative considered Josh Allen as the league MVP. All 47 out of 50 AP representatives considered Prescott as either their second, third, fourth or fifth choice for MVP. Their second, third, fourth and fifth votes accounted for 152 points, which made Prescott the award runner up by default based on the points system.

The points system was an asset for Jackson. His first-place ballots not only made up the bulk of overall points for himself but for all the other players up for consideration also.

Contrastly, Allen's single first-place vote did nothing for him since just over half of all voters (26 of 50) considered him as an MVP that season. At least Prescott convinced 47 out of 50 voters that he had an MVP season.

Even so, Allen is the real victim of the AP change to the points system. If the 2023 winner and runner format had remained the same as in all prior decades, the AP winner and runner up would have been:

1. Lamar Jackson (49)
2. Josh Allen (1)

...just like the 2018 winner and runner up (Patrick Mahomes[49] and Drew Brees[1]), 2013 winner/runner up (Peyton Manning[49] and Tom Brady[1]), 2007 winner plus runner up (Tom Brady [49] and Brett Favre[1]), etc.

Nothing is stopping anyone from discounting recognition of first-place ballot recipients. However, the current system itself does not discount first-place ballots since each one's value is double all other place ballots combined. The AP revised their system with that in mind, so the actual voters do not discount the importance of first-place ballots.

 

[Tarheelcowboy]

Romo aint better than Dak. Just stop. Dak has more win and similar or better stats than Romo. And Dak was runner up in MVP voting something Romo wasn’t even close to doing.

Your statement is very laughable

 

[5Stars]

Bold> That may be the case for some members' comments but it is disingenuous ignoring how Dak Prescott became the MVP runner-up. The Associated Press modified their decades-old system to base points on first-to-fifth place ballots.

First place votes still mean something after they implemented the change. It was only possible for Lamar Jackson to win MVP by an outrageous margin because he received 49 out of 50 first-place ballots. Those 49 first-place ballots accounted for 490 of the 493 points he accumulated. Jackson did not win squat with only the 3 points he received for the single third-place ballot someone cast for him.

Per the AP's November 18, 2022 press release (link):

The essence of the AP NFL Awards remains the same – to recognize the top performers of the season,” AP Global Sports Editor Ricardo Zuniga said. “Our goal is to provide the voters with an accurate and fair voting system to reflect their preferences. These tweaks will help them in their selection process...​

​

...Voters will rank their top five picks for MVP...​

​

Each of the 50 APs representatives picked five players as their 2023 MVP. This is their side-by-side votes between the winner and runner up:

• First-place ballot: 49 AP representatives voted for Jackson, Zero AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Second-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 17 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Third-place ballot: 1 AP representative voted for Jackson, 13 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fourth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 11 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fifth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 6 AP representatives voted for Prescott

Each first-place ballot carries the most weight, assigning 10 points per ballot.

Summary: 49 out of 50 AP representatives considered Jackson as the league MVP. The remaining AP representative considered Josh Allen as the league MVP. All 47 out of 50 AP representatives considered Prescott as either their second, third, fourth or fifth choice for MVP. Their second, third, fourth and fifth votes accounted for 152 points, which made Prescott the award runner up by default based on the points system.

The points system was an asset for Jackson. His first-place ballots not only made up the bulk of overall points for himself but for all the other players up for consideration also.

Contrastly, Allen's single first-place vote did nothing for him since just over half of all voters (26 of 50) considered him as an MVP that season. At least Prescott convinced 47 out of 50 voters that he had an MVP season.

Even so, Allen is the real victim of the AP change to the points system. If the 2023 winner and runner format had remained the same as in all prior decades, the AP winner and runner up would have been:

1. Lamar Jackson (49)
2. Josh Allen (1)

...just like the 2018 winner and runner up (Patrick Mahomes[49] and Drew Brees[1]), 2013 winner/runner up (Peyton Manning[49] and Tom Brady[1]), 2007 winner plus runner up (Tom Brady [49] and Brett Favre[1]), etc.

Nothing is stopping anyone from discounting recognition of first-place ballot recipients. However, the current system itself does not discount first-place ballots since each one's value is double all other place ballots combined. The AP revised their system with that in mind, so the actual voters do not discount the importance of first-place ballots.

lol...you think TMC is going to read that? That is to much info for him/her to comprehend.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Bold> That may be the case for some members' comments but it is disingenuous ignoring how Dak Prescott became the MVP runner-up. The Associated Press modified their decades-old system to base points on first-to-fifth place ballots.

First place votes still mean something after they implemented the change. It was only possible for Lamar Jackson to win MVP by an outrageous margin because he received 49 out of 50 first-place ballots. Those 49 first-place ballots accounted for 490 of the 493 points he accumulated. Jackson did not win squat with only the 3 points he received for the single third-place ballot someone cast for him.

Per the AP's November 18, 2022 press release (link):

The essence of the AP NFL Awards remains the same – to recognize the top performers of the season,” AP Global Sports Editor Ricardo Zuniga said. “Our goal is to provide the voters with an accurate and fair voting system to reflect their preferences. These tweaks will help them in their selection process...​

​

...Voters will rank their top five picks for MVP and top three picks for other awards. They will also rank their choices for first and second team All-Pro – the best players at each position. This process will more seamlessly allow for AP to name second and third-place finishers.​

​

Each of the 50 APs representatives picked five players as their 2023 MVP. This is their side-by-side votes between the winner and runner up:

• First-place ballot: 49 AP representatives voted for Jackson, Zero AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Second-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 17 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Third-place ballot: 1 AP representative voted for Jackson, 13 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fourth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 11 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fifth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 6 AP representatives voted for Prescott

Each first-place ballot carries the most weight, assigning 10 points per ballot.

Summary: 49 out of 50 AP representatives considered Jackson as the league MVP. The remaining AP representative considered Josh Allen as the league MVP. All 47 out of 50 AP representatives considered Prescott as either their second, third, fourth or fifth choice for MVP. Their second, third, fourth and fifth votes accounted for 152 points, which made Prescott the award runner up by default based on the points system.

The points system was an asset for Jackson. His first-place ballots not only made up the bulk of overall points for himself but for all the other players up for consideration also.

Contrastly, Allen's single first-place vote did nothing for him since just over half of all voters (26 of 50) considered him as an MVP that season. At least Prescott convinced 47 out of 50 voters that he had an MVP season.

Even so, Allen is the real victim of the AP change to the points system. If the 2023 winner and runner format had remained the same as in all prior decades, the AP winner and runner up would have been:

1. Lamar Jackson (49)
2. Josh Allen (1)

...just like the 2018 winner and runner up (Patrick Mahomes[49] and Drew Brees[1]), 2013 winner/runner up (Peyton Manning[49] and Tom Brady[1]), 2007 winner plus runner up (Tom Brady [49] and Brett Favre[1]), etc.

Nothing is stopping anyone from discounting recognition of first-place ballot recipients. However, the current system itself does not discount first-place ballots since each one's value is double all other place ballots combined. The AP revised their system with that in mind, so the actual voters do not discount the importance of first-place ballots.

Nice work laying that out. I think its important for all to understand the changes because

1) The rules are the rules so it doesnt take away that Dak is the technical MVP runner up. Even if we prefer the old system it doesnt change history. We cant say Washington wasnt a playoff team this year just because we like the 6 team playoff structure better

2) For historical relevance it is important to note simply because previous MVP races were a completely different animal. Under the new system you'll see a lot of names getting votes that you wouldnt expect.... Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Geno Smith, etc. Granted all these guys were way below Dak in the votes it does open it up for some to view it as a more watered down version of MVP voting.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

lol...you think TMC is going to read that? That is to much info for him/her to comprehend.

I have to admire DE's efforts...but I tell you what...the more factual, the more you spell it out with good common sense, the more TMC resists. (makes cookoo motion with hands )

 

[5Stars]

Nice work laying that out. I think its important for all to understand the changes because

1) The rules are the rules so it doesnt take away that Dak is the technical MVP runner up. Even if we prefer the old system it doesnt change history. We cant say Washington wasnt a playoff team this year just because we like the 6 team playoff structure better

2) For historical relevance it is important to note simply because previous MVP races were a completely different animal. Under the new system you'll see a lot of names getting votes that you wouldnt expect.... Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Geno Smith, etc. Granted all these guys were way below Dak in the votes it does open it up for some to view it as a more watered down version of MVP voting.

I think all this MVP stuff is nothing but a participation sort of event. It means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

 

[5Stars]

I have to admire DE's efforts...but I tell you what...the more factual, the more you spell it out with good common sense, the more TMC resists. (makes cookoo motion with hands )

Well, you have to give it to TMC. Him/her love for Dak is strong! Why, I have no clue...well maybe one.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Nice work laying that out. I think its important for all to understand the changes because

1) The rules are the rules so it doesnt take away that Dak is the technical MVP runner up. Even if we prefer the old system it doesnt change history. We cant say Washington wasnt a playoff team this year just because we like the 6 team playoff structure better

2) For historical relevance it is important to note simply because previous MVP races were a completely different animal. Under the new system you'll see a lot of names getting votes that you wouldnt expect.... Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Geno Smith, etc. Granted all these guys were way below Dak in the votes it does open it up for some to view it as a more watered down version of MVP voting.

That's fine to state he was...technically...runner up...since it is..well.... TRUE!

Attempting to use it as a blunt instrument to bash critics over the head....is so stupid and weak. That's how little Dak Crusaders have. A SINGLE vote and it would be interesting to know who cast it.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

I think all this MVP stuff is nothing but a participation sort of event. It means absolutely nothing in the scheme of things.

Yes...like

"He's a GREAT leader" (not true)
"he's a really good guy" (probably true...most people generally are)
"look at him giving teammates shoes and bikes...how FABULOUS of him" (well...okay)

Just superficial stuff here. Again...it shows how little there really is.

 

[thunderpimp91]

That's fine to state he was...technically...runner up...since it is..well.... TRUE!

Attempting to use it as a blunt instrument to bash critics over the head....is so stupid and weak. That's how little Dak Crusaders have. A SINGLE vote and it would be interesting to know who cast it.

No argument with you on most of that, but Dak received several votes, just no first place votes. If I'm reading it right 30% of voters had him on their ballots.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/awards/awards_2023.htm#voting_apmvp

 

[EPL0c0]

jerry is not the master negotiator/deal maker he thinks he is

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

No argument with you on most of that, but Dak received several votes, just no first place votes. If I'm reading it right 30% of voters had him on their ballots.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/awards/awards_2023.htm#voting_apmvp

Ok...thanks for the correction.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Bold> That may be the case for some members' comments but it is disingenuous ignoring how Dak Prescott became the MVP runner-up. The Associated Press modified their decades-old system to base points on first-to-fifth place ballots.

First place votes still mean something after they implemented the change. It was only possible for Lamar Jackson to win MVP by an outrageous margin because he received 49 out of 50 first-place ballots. Those 49 first-place ballots accounted for 490 of the 493 points he accumulated. Jackson did not win squat with only the 3 points he received for the single third-place ballot someone cast for him.

Per the AP's November 18, 2022 press release (link):

The essence of the AP NFL Awards remains the same – to recognize the top performers of the season,” AP Global Sports Editor Ricardo Zuniga said. “Our goal is to provide the voters with an accurate and fair voting system to reflect their preferences. These tweaks will help them in their selection process...​

​

...Voters will rank their top five picks for MVP...​

​

Each of the 50 APs representatives picked five players as their 2023 MVP. This is their side-by-side votes between the winner and runner up:

• First-place ballot: 49 AP representatives voted for Jackson, Zero AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Second-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 17 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Third-place ballot: 1 AP representative voted for Jackson, 13 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fourth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 11 AP representatives voted for Prescott
• Fifth-place ballot: Zero AP representatives voted for Jackson, 6 AP representatives voted for Prescott

Each first-place ballot carries the most weight, assigning 10 points per ballot.

Summary: 49 out of 50 AP representatives considered Jackson as the league MVP. The remaining AP representative considered Josh Allen as the league MVP. All 47 out of 50 AP representatives considered Prescott as either their second, third, fourth or fifth choice for MVP. Their second, third, fourth and fifth votes accounted for 152 points, which made Prescott the award runner up by default based on the points system.

The points system was an asset for Jackson. His first-place ballots not only made up the bulk of overall points for himself but for all the other players up for consideration also.

Contrastly, Allen's single first-place vote did nothing for him since just over half of all voters (26 of 50) considered him as an MVP that season. At least Prescott convinced 47 out of 50 voters that he had an MVP season.

Even so, Allen is the real victim of the AP change to the points system. If the 2023 winner and runner format had remained the same as in all prior decades, the AP winner and runner up would have been:

1. Lamar Jackson (49)
2. Josh Allen (1)

...just like the 2018 winner and runner up (Patrick Mahomes[49] and Drew Brees[1]), 2013 winner/runner up (Peyton Manning[49] and Tom Brady[1]), 2007 winner plus runner up (Tom Brady [49] and Brett Favre[1]), etc.

Nothing is stopping anyone from discounting recognition of first-place ballot recipients. However, the current system itself does not discount first-place ballots since each one's value is double all other place ballots combined. The AP revised their system with that in mind, so the actual voters do not discount the importance of first-place ballots.

I'm arguing against the opinion "Josh Allen was runner up". I'm not arguing Dak was MVP or none of this other irrelevent stuff. Dak had a solid season in 2023 is the point. Some would argue it was better than Lamar's.

Plus Johs Allen's one vote for MVP was a joke by someone who wanted to promote his system for calculating MVP.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

lol...you think TMC is going to read that? That is to much info for him/her to comprehend.

Quit sucking up to mods i'm right here if you want my attention. You crave for likes and attention and it has to suck not to get it.

 

[IMGumby]

jerry is not the master negotiator/deal maker he thinks he is

Jerry could have signed Dak in 2019 and used the Carson Wentz extension (4 yr/$128M) as a baseline. Jerry waits instead, tags Dak at $31M in 2020, and then gives a 4 year $160M contract (2021 - 2024). Both the Wentz extension & Dak's contracts were both through the 2024 season. Eagles are playing chess while Jerry is trying to master tic-tac-toe.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Attempting to use it as a blunt instrument to bash critics over the head....is so stupid and weak. That's how little Dak Crusaders have. A SINGLE vote and it would be interesting to know who cast it.

Unbelievable. AND STILL people think he didn't get a single vote. I quit. Y'all have at it. Because at this point you need mental help that surpasses anything anyone can give you here.

 

[5Stars]

Unbelievable. AND STILL people think he didn't get a single vote. I quit. Y'all have at it. Because at this point you need mental help that surpasses anything anyone can give you here.

Don't respond, SteveTheCowboy, you will be taken down deep into his/her rabbit hole, then get gaslighted so bad you won't be able to crawl back out.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Don't respond, SteveTheCowboy, you will be taken down deep into his/her rabbit hole, then get gaslighted so bad you won't be able to crawl back out.

Why don't you go "teach him" how Dak never got a single MVP vote lol. You both belong with each other. You don't even know what the hell gaslighting is.....all you know is your perverted view of wanting me to be a female. I tell you i'm not a female and you keep wanting me to be.

 

[DallasEast]

2) For historical relevance it is important to note simply because previous MVP races were a completely different animal. Under the new system you'll see a lot of names getting votes that you wouldnt expect.... Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Geno Smith, etc. Granted all these guys were way below Dak in the votes it does open it up for some to view it as a more watered down version of MVP voting.

Actually... it depended upon circumstances of any particular year. Take the AP MVP voting for 2008 (link):

						Game		Pass					Rush			Rece
Rk	Pos	Player	Tm	Votes	Share	G	GS	Cmp	Att	Yds	TD	Int	Att	Yds	TD	Rec	Yds	TD	Solo	Sk	Int
1	QB	Peyton Manning	Indianapolis Colts	32.0	64%	16	16	371	555	4002	27	12	20	21	1	0	0	0	0	0.0	0
2	QB	Chad Pennington	Miami Dolphins	4.0	8%	16	16	321	476	3653	19	7	30	62	1	0	0	0	0	0.0	0
3	RB	Michael Turner	Atlanta Falcons	4.0	8%	16	16	0	0	0	0	0	376	1699	17	6	41	0	0	0.0	0
4	ROLB	James Harrison	Pittsburgh Steelers	3.0	6%	15	15	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	67	16.0	1
5	RB	Adrian Peterson	Minnesota Vikings	3.0	6%	16	15	0	0	0	0	0	363	1760	10	21	125	0	0	0.0	0
6	QB	Philip Rivers	San Diego Chargers	2.0	4%	16	16	312	478	4009	34	11	31	84	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	0
7	RB	Chris Johnson	Tennessee Titans	1.0	2%	15	14	0	0	0	0	0	251	1228	9	43	260	1	0	0.0	0
8	QB	Kurt Warner	Arizona Cardinals	1.0	2%	16	16	401	598	4583	30	14	18	-2	0	0	0	0	0	0.0	0

The AP has demonstrated it will consider a diverse group of MVP candidates in the past. Looking at that batch of names makes me curious how the voting would have broken down using the current points system.

Manning would have still blown out the rest of the pack with his 32 first-place votes. That alone would have netted him 320 points, before up to 18 more AP representatives cast their second, third, fourth or fifth place votes. Hypothetically, the most he could have accumulated was 410 points IF the remaining 18 AP reps have cast their votes for him on their second-place ballot.

That example puts MVP's award wins in perspective, whether it is the current or past ones. Manning's hypothetical 410 points would still be 83 points shy of Jackson's for 2023.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Nice work laying that out. I think its important for all to understand the changes because

1) The rules are the rules so it doesnt take away that Dak is the technical MVP runner up. Even if we prefer the old system it doesnt change history. We cant say Washington wasnt a playoff team this year just because we like the 6 team playoff structure better

2) For historical relevance it is important to note simply because previous MVP races were a completely different animal. Under the new system you'll see a lot of names getting votes that you wouldnt expect.... Tua, Trevor Lawrence, Geno Smith, etc. Granted all these guys were way below Dak in the votes it does open it up for some to view it as a more watered down version of MVP voting.

Great points.