Is football ready for Gay Player?

[pancakeman]

I am a conservative Christian that reads the Bible in it's entirety.
Maybe there is something you would like to share that you think I would not want to address.

I'll bite. There's a well-argued article at http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/wink.htm that speaks to this. From that article:

For example; virtually all modern readers would agree with the Bible in rejecting:

* incest
* rape
* adultery
* intercourse with animals

But we disagree with the Bible on most other sexual mores. The Bible condemned the following behaviors which we generally allow:

* intercourse during menstruation
* celibacy
* exogamy (marriage with non-Jews)
* naming sexual organs
* nudity (under certain conditions)
* masturbation (some Christians still condemn this)
* birth control (some Christians still forbid this)
* And the bible regarded semen and menstrual blood as unclean, which most of us do not

Likewise, the bible permitted behaviors that we today condemn:

* prostitution
* polygamy
* levirate marriage
* sex with slaves
* concubinage
* treatment of women as property
* very early marriage (for the girl, age 11-13)

And while the Old Testament accepted divorce, Jesus forbade it. In short, of the sexual mores mentioned here, we only agree with the Bible on four of them, and disagree with it on sixteen!

Surely no one today would recommend reviving the levirate marriage. So why do we appeal to proof texts in Scripture in the case of homosexuality alone, when we feel perfectly free to disagree with Scripture regarding most other sexual practices? Obviously many of our choices in these matters are arbitrary.

By the way, I am a straight Christian who believes in gay rights. I take great offense to Double Trouble's "assurance" that anyone with such a belief isn't a true Christian. From my perspective, the people who fight against discrimination are the worthiest of the label "Christian."

That said, I too am thankful that most of the contributions to this thread have been thoughtful and respectful.

 

[TonyS]

O my here you go again. What facts are you talking about? Your cute little 20-30 years less life expectancy? Dude, I have alot of friends that smoke, see alot of people smoking everyday, I assume you see the same. Are you the kind of awesome person that goes up to a stranger on the street to point out ever so courageously, that smoking will kill them?

"we'd be doing more to help people in this lifestyle"... dude you are the one that needs help in this regard. So arrogant it is unreal. Who are you to say they need help bro?

Ahh, where to begin? You know the facts that I'm talking about so I guess we're on to the A-hole question.

No, I don't go up to smokers and tell them how bad smoking is for them. They know this already through the packaging and the media campaigns regarding smoking. Most young homosexuals who enter the "lifestyle" do so without understanding the consequences because the media is too busy teaching them its okay to be gay without telling them that their life expectancy and quality may suffer dramatically from the risky behavior commonly associated with homosexuality.

Now who am I to say they need help and does this indicate arrogance on my part? Good question. If I told you that starving children in Africa needed help would you be jumping down my throat and calling me arrogant?

You're mad at me and think I'm arrogant because 1) you disagree with me and 2) its your only defense for your argument.

 

[lyrclcipha12]

This is just about what this whole thread boils down to, ... do you believe that the Bible is the inherent Word of God, ... or not.

Your answer forms your opinion.

how does the issue of gay rights have anything to do with the bible? the bible was scripture written A LOOOONG time ago. it is not relevant in this discussion.

 

[Mike 1967]

A human being can have the level of awareness of an "animal" if they suffer trauma to their central nervous system. So would you argue these people lack a soul because their awareness has dropped? That's basically the argument you are making.

If a man becomes paralyzed he cannot use his arm. But just because he cannot use his arm does not mean that the arm does not exist.

I would argue that any person that is breathing has a soul. But a persons ability to communicate with the surrounding environment might be non-existent...i.e. a comma

I am not sure what point you are trying to make....but...I have met people in comma's....but I have never met a dog I could have a debate with.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Yep...we are animals. The only difference between man and animal is...to coin the term you introduced....our 'level of awareness"

I am not an animal, I am a Child of the King, created in His image.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Actually most data show that is among the least common ways that gay men have sex.

Ya see -- i'm here to educate as well as argue.

Abersonc, the reincarnation of the Oracle of Delphi!




Keep fighting the good fight AB.

 

[fortdick]

how does the issue of gay rights have anything to do with the bible? the bible was scripture written A LOOOONG time ago. it is not relevant in this discussion.

So was the Constitution! Do we disregard that as well?

 

[Alexander]

This is just about what this whole thread boils down to, ... do you believe that the Bible is the inherent Word of God, ... or not.

Your answer forms your opinion.

No, that is your own stilted, shiftless and unmoving opinion. There are Christian churches who do accept gay members.

 

[blindzebra]

Please explain your comment

Well let's see, I'm seeing a lot of Old Testament being quoted, and Jesus' teaching was a break away from the past.

IMO, Jesus would be the first one caring for aids patients, walking in the gay pride parade, and preaching for understanding and equality.

 

[mr.jameswoods]

Yep...we are animals. The only difference between man and animal is...to coin the term you introduced....our 'level of awareness"

Level of awareness is not the same as conscience or what many refer to as a "soul."

What about patients who are in a vegetable state due to a neuropathy only to recover later. So did they lose their soul for a couple years only to recover it when their level of awareness rose?

 

[Mike 1967]

I am not an animal, I am a Child of the King, created in His image.

Your flesh is animal.

His Image is your soul / heart / Spirit.

Or has James call is "your awareness"

 

[fortdick]

No, that is your own stilted, shiftless and unmoving opinion. There are Christian churches who do accept gay members.

Why wouldn't they? Don't all churches accept sinners?

 

[WoodysGirl]

I will say it again.


If this discussion goes any further into religion it will be closed.

 

[MarionBarberThe4th]

Terrell Owens is gay. He's got the gay mans head tilt and lip smack when he talks. All he's missing is the whirlwind finger snap.

I actually noticed that. I mentioned it once.

"dont go there"

 

[WV Cowboy]

It actually goes beyond even that.

(1) Do you have any standard of right and wrong ?
(2) If you don't, then let me know where you live so I can take your car
(3) If you do..the what it yours based on and what makes your basis better than mine.

I think I agree with you on this Mike. I do read and study the Bible so you know my beliefs and standards of right and wrong.

 

[Mike 1967]

Level of awareness is not the same as conscience or what many refer to as a "soul."

What about patients who are in a vegetable state due to a neuropathy only to recover later. So did they lose their soul for a couple years only to recover it when their level of awareness rose?

I am not saying they are the same.

But my original point....if I have not lost track of it...was that an man can control his urges where an animal cannot, because of his (plug your term in here) "level of awareness."

Accepting your dog of course...he watches fox news and votes republican.

 

[TonyS]

I will say it again.


If this discussion goes any further into religion it will be closed.

Not very tolerant are you?

Oh...and...Go Cowboys!

 

[fortdick]

I will say it again.


If this discussion goes any further into religion it will be closed.

Hey WG, good to see you step in. I think the orignial quesitons has been answered. Any player that came out would cause soooo much turmoil over the issue that it would damage the team. This is an arguement for them to stay in the shadows. Although, a TO type personality may want the attention and to hades with the team. It is a mtter of time before someone steps out. THe fireworks will be interesting but eventually hurt football.

 

[WV Cowboy]

how does the issue of gay rights have anything to do with the bible? the bible was scripture written A LOOOONG time ago. it is not relevant in this discussion.

You proved my point.

 

[Mike 1967]

I'll bite. There's a well-argued article at http://www.bridges-across.org/ba/wink.htm that speaks to this. From that article:


By the way, I am a straight Christian who believes in gay rights. I take great offense to Double Trouble's "assurance" that anyone with such a belief isn't a true Christian. From my perspective, the people who fight against discrimination are the worthiest of the label "Christian."

That said, I too am thankful that most of the contributions to this thread have been thoughtful and respectful.

I am really not interested in getting pulled into a debate on Biblical Law. I am already neck deep in the other 10 rabbit trails I am on.

I will just state that there are differences in Moral and Jewish Law. Those differences center around the dynamic of Jesus Christ and what he accomplished on the cross.

You appear to be a liberal Christian. If so, you and I would disagree on many things. Will save the debate for another time.