Is Lebron the goat?

[ABQCOWBOY]

He is my GOAT at Center and I can make a case for overall top three. The guy was unstoppable and his only weakness was playing at Denver

Not mine but he was in the discussion as one of the very best. He would have eaten up any PF I've ever seen play. Seriously, that guy was crazy good defensively and really hard to handle in the block or filling the lane.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I believe MJ could defend magic and Bird a lot better than they could defend him

MJ is my 1, Kareem 2

I watched it. He couldn't. Now, to be fair, they couldn't stop MJ either but MJ wasn't shutting those guys down in their primes either. It is what it is. It's a matchup thing.

 

[Tabascocat]

Not mine but he was in the discussion as one of the very best. He would have eaten up any PF I've ever seen play. Seriously, that guy was crazy good defensively and really hard to handle in the block or filling the lane.

I only say the best Center because of the other great Centers he faced. He abused Robinson, Ewing and Shaq to name a few. No one could hold a candle to him.

Yes, Wilt, Russel and Kareem were great but their competition wasn’t anywhere near that of the 90’s NBA IMO.

Turn-around fade shot for two.......

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I only say the best Center because of the other great Centers he faced. He abused Robinson, Ewing and Shaq to name a few. No one could hold a candle to him.

Yes, Wilt, Russel and Kareem were great but their competition wasn’t anywhere near that of the 90’s NBA IMO.

Turn-around fade shot for two.......

He abused Ewing for sure. I don't know that he abused Robinson, in Robinson's first 7 years in the NBA, he was pretty good. Shaq, nobody abused him. Shaq would not have gone out and picked him up on the outside jumpers but nobody is going down on the block and abusing Shaq. I've never seen anybody in the NBA who could have done that. He was just too big and too quick for a man his size.

But The Dream was one of the all time greats in my book, regardless. I wonder how good he could have been if he'd actually grown up with Basketball? If he could have learned to be a little better ball handler and ball defender, he could have been a bigger Michael Jordan. Think about that for just a second.......

 

[StuckMojo]

I watched it. He couldn't. Now, to be fair, they couldn't stop MJ either but MJ wasn't shutting those guys down in their primes either. It is what it is. It's a matchup thing.

I’m 51 so I watched it too. Just saying he could guard them better than they could him. I live an hour and a half from Chapel Hill so I’m a little biased maybe ..haha. Mid 80s through the the end of the Bulls run the NBA was awesome!

 

[StuckMojo]

He abused Ewing for sure. I don't know that he abused Robinson, in Robinson's first 7 years in the NBA, he was pretty good. Shaq, nobody abused him. Shaq would not have gone out and picked him up on the outside jumpers but nobody is going down on the block and abusing Shaq. I've never seen anybody in the NBA who could have done that. He was just too big and too quick for a man his size.

But The Dream was one of the all time greats in my book, regardless. I wonder how good he could have been if he'd actually grown up with Basketball? If he could have learned to be a little better ball handler and ball defender, he could have been a bigger Michael Jordan. Think about that for just a second.......

MJ has The Dream on his all time starting 5

 

[Tabascocat]

He abused Ewing for sure. I don't know that he abused Robinson, in Robinson's first 7 years in the NBA, he was pretty good. Shaq, nobody abused him. Shaq would not have gone out and picked him up on the outside jumpers but nobody is going down on the block and abusing Shaq. I've never seen anybody in the NBA who could have done that. He was just too big and too quick for a man his size.

But The Dream was one of the all time greats in my book, regardless. I wonder how good he could have been if he'd actually grown up with Basketball? If he could have learned to be a little better ball handler and ball defender, he could have been a bigger Michael Jordan. Think about that for just a second.......

Robinson was good but he couldn’t stop Hakeem, they both got their points in match-ups. Olajuwon won most of those battles. As for Shaq, he was just big but not a very skilled player. I saw an interview some time ago and Shaq said he wanted no part in guarding the Dream, he stated that he would just stand around inside to foul him if need be

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I’m 51 so I watched it too. Just saying he could guard them better than they could him. I live an hour and a half from Chapel Hill so I’m a little biased maybe ..haha. Mid 80s through the the end of the Bulls run the NBA was awesome!

Yeah, I didn't really see that. Bird lite the Bulls up before he got to the point where his back limited him so much. He was a 6'9 Forward who wasn't quick, wasn't overly strong, wasn't really gifted athletically at all but he could make any shot from any place at any angle and Mike couldn't stop that. Neither could anybody else though. Magic was a 6'9 guard who could do it all. Mike couldn't stop Magic either because he was too good a passer and too big on the block. The Lakers didn't see Chicago a lot during the regular season so not a lot to go on, head to head, but with Bird, there is a lot.

But I do agree, the NBA of that era was the best NBA IMO.

 

[StuckMojo]

Yeah, I didn't really see that. Bird lite the Bulls up before he got to the point where his back limited him so much. He was a 6'9 Forward who wasn't quick, wasn't overly strong, wasn't really gifted athletically at all but he could make any shot from any place at any angle and Mike couldn't stop that. Neither could anybody else though. Magic was a 6'9 guard who could do it all. Mike couldn't stop Magic either because he was too good a passer and too big on the block. The Lakers didn't see Chicago a lot during the regular season so not a lot to go on, head to head, but with Bird, there is a lot.

But I do agree, the NBA of that era was the best NBA IMO.

To be honest though MJ was usually defending the shooting guards and not Bird. Bird maybe the smartest on the court player of all time.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Robinson was good but he couldn’t stop Hakeem, they both got their points in match-ups. Olajuwon won most of those battles. As for Shaq, he was just big but not a very skilled player. I saw an interview some time ago and Shaq said he wanted no part in guarding the Dream, he stated that he would just stand around inside to foul him if need be

The Rockets were better at that time then were the Spurs but that would change later. I watched Shaq a lot. Hakeem would not have lasted against Shaq if he would have had to play him a lot. Shaq was skilled in a lot of ways IMO. He was much more a low block player so his game was around the basket. But he was surprisingly good defensively, from the off side. That deal just comes down to 6'10 260 and 7'1 325. That's just a laws of nature thing to me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

MJ has The Dream on his all time starting 5

Not surprised. He was seriously good.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I believe MJ could defend magic and Bird a lot better than they could defend him

MJ is my 1, Kareem 2

Definitely . Neither stood a snow ball’s chance in **** defending him. And Jordan, may not be able to defend them that great either, but he was a much better defender than both

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

To be honest though MJ was usually defending the shooting guards and not Bird. Bird maybe the smartest on the court player of all time.

That's true but Bird lit up the Bulls. I feel like if Mike could have stopped Larry, the Bulls would have matched them up because they were going home if they couldn't stop him. But that's kinda what I'm saying though. Athletically, there is no question, Mike was better then either but each of them had something that allowed them to dominate. Mike was the best athlete, maybe ever. Bird was the best shooter from anywhere off the team bus and magic was the perfect combination of both and probably the best leader of the three with the best vision. I'd take either one and be very happy going home. All of them were truly great, great players IMO.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

I think a guy like Hakeem Olajuwon would have abused James.

There’s no way Hakeem is guarding James. Hakeem was quick, but just wasn’t fast enough. LeBron would wear him out and take him away from the basket, I just don’t see that as a winning strategy. Now if you mean give Hakeem a perimeter defender that can at least cause trouble and Olajuwon guards the rim, I can agree

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That's true but Bird lit up the Bulls. I feel like if Mike could have stopped Larry, the Bulls would have matched them up because they were going home if they couldn't stop him. But that's kinda what I'm saying though. Athletically, there is no question, Mike was better then either but each of them had something that allowed them to dominate. Mike was the best athlete, maybe ever. Bird was the best shooter from anywhere off the team bus and magic was the perfect combination of both and probably the best leader of the three with the best vision. I'd take either one and be very happy going home. All of them were truly great, great players IMO.

They also had the benefit of not playing Jordan at his peak. I know he put up his best scoring averages in the late 80s, but I think he was a far better player in the early 90s and both of them were done at that point

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

There’s no way Hakeem is guarding James. Hakeem was quick, but just wasn’t fast enough. LeBron would wear him out and take him away from the basket, I just don’t see that as a winning strategy. Now if you mean give Hakeem a perimeter defender that can at least cause trouble and Olajuwon guards the rim, I can agree

Yeah, I don't believe that. I think LeBron would spend a lot of time getting his shot slapped but that's just my opinion.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They also had the benefit of not playing Jordan at his peak. I know he put up his best scoring averages in the late 80s, but I think he was a far better player in the early 90s and both of them were done at that point

And Jordan had the same benefit. He had the benefit of playing those guys as they got older. It goes both ways.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

And Jordan had the same benefit. He had the benefit of playing those guys as they got older. It goes both ways.

I agree, which is why I’m not using games from 91-92 to support my assertion. Wouldn’t be fair to them

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree, which is why I’m not using games from 91-92 to support my assertion. Wouldn’t be fair to them

It's funny, because I am a huge Mike fan and a North Carolina Tar Heel Basketball fan, it's hard to argue either side of these discussions. I could easily take the one side and argue it and feel as if I was right in my conviction and then I could go ahead and take the other side and feel exactly the same way. All of these players were just so great and we were lucky to have been around to watch them all play, all at the same time. The NBA may never be that great again, IMO.

 

[Tabascocat]

It's funny, because I am a huge Mike fan and a North Carolina Tar Heel Basketball fan, it's hard to argue either side of these discussions. I could easily take the one side and argue it and feel as if I was right in my conviction and then I could go ahead and take the other side and feel exactly the same way. All of these players were just so great and we were lucky to have been around to watch them all play, all at the same time. The NBA may never be that great again, IMO.

It will never be like that again, the game has evolved to something almost unwatchable