IS QB a failure if they never win a SB?

[Reid1boys]

I agree they hadn’t brought in any talent in previous seasons but they did when they brought Brady in who no doubt made a tremendous difference .

But as we saw last year and it appears so far this year it’s not enough without all of the stronger support cast and coaching.

Just like we’ve seen with Rodgers , he only had enough talent one season so far to win a championship.

Do these Elite QB’s make it easier to build around . Of course but it takes more than just that.

Well, lets be real.. the reason Rodgers isnt winning titles every year was there were these other guys winning also... you know, Brady, Manning, Brees.... some other pretty avg QBs.

 

[Whirlwin]

Who did I slam? All I did was make a comment Looks like you did the slam job to me

Nobody. I wasn’t talking about you I was talking about the OP.

 

[Cowpolk]

Nobody. I wasn’t talking about you I was talking about the OP.

Ok thought you were my bad

 

[Vtwin]

Yes you did.. you said "start naming them.."




I know it's a rare coach who can get it done with great QBs or backup QBs.. Because they were/are great coaches. People who credit Brady with all the Pats success need to look at the defensive rankings of the teams he won it with. Those defenses were outstanding.. I believe #1 overall like 7-8 times and top 10 in something like 15 of his 20 years there. Yes Brady was/is great.. but let's face it.. a lot of times he didn't need to be.. Many many teams have shown they can take "okay" QB play, pair it with great defense and win it all. If Belichick can build another one of those defenses.. he will join that list.. But truth be told, he already should be on it.. because Brady was nowhere near as good in their first set of championships as he became in their second. His overall numbers were pretty pedestrian until 2007. Brady can be credited for carrying the Pats post 2007.. but before that.. the Pats, particularly the defense, carried him.. Look at their scoring defense rankings in the championship years.


2001 - #6
2003 - #1
2004 - #2
2014 - #8
2016 - #1
2018 - #7

In the years they lost in the Super Bowl the defenses were:

2007 - #4
2011 - #15
2017 - #5

Oh and in Tampa..

2020 - #8
2021 - #5
2020 - #6



So in his career Brady was able to "carry" exactly one defense that was not top 8 to the Super Bowl. At some point folks need to acknowledge he's had the luxury of playing with great defenses year and year out. Not that there is anything wrong with that. But we minimize Eli's two championship rings because "the defense carried him.." Yet look at the rankings of HIS two championship defenses..

2007 - #17
2011 - #25

I'll just go head and leave that right there..

Those rankings of the Giant's defense are a little misleading. Especially 2007. They were both well equipped to bring Brady's kryptonite. Pressure and hits. His one flaw was getting rattled IF you could knock him around a little and keep the pressure on. No easy task though.

 

[TwentyOne]

So if a QB plays for a team ten or so seasons, was a high draft pick and never wins a SB, does that mean he was a Bust?

Nope.

QB is a failure when he cant play.

Just ask JJ. He knows one or two things about it.

 

[RonnieT24]

Those rankings of the Giant's defense are a little misleading. Especially 2007. They were both well equipped to bring Brady's kryptonite. Pressure and hits. His one flaw was getting rattled IF you could knock him around a little and keep the pressure on. No easy task though.

It's not just HIS flaw.. It's every QB's flaw.. As I am fond of saying, the QB has not been born who can beat you from flat on his back. It's why no matter how many championships Brady wins I will ALWAYS favor a guy who can move over him.. Give me Rodgers, Mahomes, Staubach, Montana .. guys of that ilk over a Brady all day every day. All those guys throw the ball as well or better.. but give the added benefit of being able to move around and buy time when the line breaks down. I think if you give any of those guys Brady's lines and Brady's defenses and their careers take a similar path. Especially Staubach and Montana.. in this era of legalized holding and you can't even talk bad to the QB without risking a flag? OMG!!!

 

[Vtwin]

It's not just HIS flaw.. It's every QB's flaw.. As I am fond of saying, the QB has not been born who can beat you from flat on his back. It's why no matter how many championships Brady wins I will ALWAYS favor a guy who can move over him.. Give me Rodgers, Mahomes, Staubach, Montana .. guys of that ilk over a Brady all day every day. All those guys throw the ball as well or better.. but give the added benefit of being able to move around and buy time when the line breaks down. I think if you give any of those guys Brady's lines and Brady's defenses and their careers take a similar path. Especially Staubach and Montana.. in this era of legalized holding and you can't even talk bad to the QB without risking a flag? OMG!!!

Well, true, of course.

Some guys bounce better though. A handful of times I called the upcoming interception as Brady got up chirping at the defender and the official. He could not take getting roughed up and it got to him more than most. If you couldn't keep doing it he would come back the next series and make you pay though.

 

[manster4ever]

I didn't read through the whole thread as it's too long to do so BUT for me the following is true: you can't say a QB isn't a hall of famer just because he didn't win a SB. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly are two glaring examples, as well as Fran Tarkenton.

Conversely, guys like Dilfer/Hostetler/Rypien/Flacco and Brad Johnson are not anything special, certainly not hall of famers: just bus drivers on great teams who were in the right place at the right time.

 

[GINeric]

No. Because it's a team game.
Example : Dan Marino

Here's where im confused.... it seems that football is a team game when it comes to wins and losses. But for some reason, it doesn't apply to all quarterbacks according to a few people here.

So why is football a team game for 99% of other quarterbacks, but not for the remaining 1%??? Help me understand.

 

[links18]

Danny White and Romo were both great QBs, but they never made a Super Bowl.

 

[Reid1boys]

I didn't read through the whole thread as it's too long to do so BUT for me the following is true: you can't say a QB isn't a hall of famer just because he didn't win a SB. Dan Marino and Jim Kelly are two glaring examples, as well as Fran Tarkenton.

Conversely, guys like Dilfer/Hostetler/Rypien/Flacco and Brad Johnson are not anything special, certainly not hall of famers: just bus drivers on great teams who were in the right place at the right time.

Did anyone say a qb isn't a HOF qb if they didn't win a title? If they did, I missed it.

 

[Diehardblues]

Well, lets be real.. the reason Rodgers isnt winning titles every year was there were these other guys winning also... you know, Brady, Manning, Brees.... some other pretty avg QBs.

Well Brees only won one and Peyton and Brady didn’t stop him from at least appearing in SB.

 

[Diehardblues]

Did anyone say a qb isn't a HOF qb if they didn't win a title? If they did, I missed it.

But you did ask if they were a failure if they didn’t win a SB.

Is that a truly serious question? That sounds like something a 10 yr old would say. Lol

 

[john van brocklin]

Here's where im confused.... it seems that football is a team game when it comes to wins and losses. But for some reason, it doesn't apply to all quarterbacks according to a few people here.

So why is football a team game for 99% of other quarterbacks, but not for the remaining 1%??? Help me understand.

Because some posters have an agenda.
The QB has the biggest impact on wins/losses
Of all players, but is only a small % of the overall picture.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Not a bust, but a disappointment. I loved Romo. I'd never call him a bust regardless of his draft status. Even if we'd taken him with a high pick, or any pick at all, he wouldn't be a bust. But I'd be lying if I said I'm not disappointed we didn't win a superbowl with him.

He wasnt good enough. Folded in every big moment

 

[SuspectCorner]

Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl - was HE a failure?

 

[JoeKing]

Yes, all NFL players are failures if they are never part of a Super Bowl team... not.

 

[DanA]

So if a QB plays for a team ten or so seasons, was a high draft pick and never wins a SB, does that mean he was a Bust?

Yes, it’s not a failure as a player though, it’s a failure of leadership.