IS QB a failure if they never win a SB?

[Ranching]

Those guys been to the super bowl. They had some form of playoff success.

I know, but that wasn't the question

 

[Scottishcowboy]

Good question but QB appears to be a little different . Probably cause most translate winning to greatness . Remember no other position do we tally wins and losses to their personal record .

I’d also remind everyone that “ Impact” is also a condition for induction into the HOF. And how Joe Namath and Gayle Sayers got in for example . I’d suggest Jimmy Johnson eventually got in for Impact.

It's a good debate and different from the usual topics the site tends to end up doing........you all know what I mean!

I just get grumpy old man syndrome when something I don't like happens!

 

[RonnieT24]

Good question but QB appears to be a little different . Probably cause most translate winning to greatness . Remember no other position do we tally wins and losses to their personal record .

I’d also remind everyone that “ Impact” is also a condition for induction into the HOF. And how Joe Namath and Gayle Sayers got in for example . I’d suggest Jimmy Johnson eventually got in for Impact.

Not true.. If you go to pro-football-reference you can see the W-L record for every player who ever played. The mediots are the ones who tell you we only count them for QBs..

 

[ondaedg]

sarcasm is missed on you..... no kidding they had a "Decent," defense. That was my point. When someone wants to point out how an avg qb can win a sb then they want to use Flacco and Dilfer as their examples it is laughable when you consider those 2 defenses were 2 of the greatest to ever play.

Yep I missed it my bad. Totally agree on the defenses carrying QBs. I’ve written several posts talking about how some QBs are lifted to revered status here even though they were on teams with historically great defenses or surrounded by hall of famers.

 

[Captain-Crash]

No they are losers.

 

[Diehardblues]

Not true.. If you go to pro-football-reference you can see the W-L record for every player who ever played. The mediots are the ones who tell you we only count them for QBs..

Interesting. I’ve never seen that or heard it referenced. Thanks

 

[mardwin]

I know, but that wasn't the question

I just answered the question. Playoff success = not failure even if QB doesn't win super bowl.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

You do Realize Cam Newton is a HORRIBLE example, right? He was the MVP of the freaking league his LONE season that he was ever close to the SB. Russel Wilson stinks and it has never been more evident how great that defense was. As soon as the defense went away, SEattle and now Denver stink with Russel.

Rich Gannon was in the Super Bowl?/ oh, yea, like Newton it was that season he was the damn MVP of the league....lol
There are always players here and there that had a nice little run. Using Players that won the league MVP in their lone SB appearance isnt exactly helping your argument.

so where they MVP because they were great? or everything around them worked great.

I look at greatness as some one who has been able to be at a high level for extended period of time, as opposed to catching lighting in a bottle and winning an MVP based on most popular voting/opinion mechanism. Gannon was average for years before and after....same with Newton. is Rexgrossman then a goot QB because his team played in the superbowl? no, it was all the other factors around him. so yeah, I take MVP, probowls etc. with a huge grain of salt.

 

[MyFairLady]

I'd go as far to say, if Brady had been drafted by and played his entire career with the Browns he wouldn't have got a ring.

That's not a knock on Brady. It takes more than a great QB to win a championship.

This is so ridiculous. In his 40s he won the super bowl with the freaking Bucs. A team that was a complete joke for years. Brady is the one that sets the tone of what is expected and he is the one setting the example and holding players accountable. He would have had massive success no matter where he went.

 

[Diehardblues]

so where they MVP because they were great? or everything around them worked great.

I look at greatness as some one who has been able to be at a high level for extended period of time, as opposed to catching lighting in a bottle and winning an MVP based on most popular voting/opinion mechanism. Gannon was average for years before and after....same with Newton. is Rexgrossman then a goot QB because his team played in the superbowl? no, it was all the other factors around him. so yeah, I take MVP, probowls etc. with a huge grain of salt.

Those QB’s in their prime were enough to build around . You don’t have to be Elite every year of your career to be enough some years.

Franchise QB’s aren’t necessarily Elite QB’s. But are enough for most teams to try and build around . Unfortunately there’s not enough Elite QB’s to fill 32 rosters .

 

[Diehardblues]

This is so ridiculous. In his 40s he won the super bowl with the freaking Bucs. A team that was a complete joke for years. Brady is the one that sets the tone of what is expected and he is the one setting the example and holding players accountable. He would have had massive success no matter where he went.

I’m not sure Brady would have massive success anywhere.

The Bucs had a good defense. And they signed on several good players to compliment Brady.

Remember the Patriots didn’t go to the Super Bowl every year like Tampa didn’t last year and doesn’t look like they will this year.

What Brady provides is a better opportunity. But he’s not a lock to go to SB without a better supporting cast. Same for all Elite QB’s.

 

[starfan1]

This is so ridiculous. In his 40s he won the super bowl with the freaking Bucs. A team that was a complete joke for years. Brady is the one that sets the tone of what is expected and he is the one setting the example and holding players accountable. He would have had massive success no matter where he went.

dude I like Brady and all hes done but the Bucs added more than just Brady. He was definately a upgrade over Winston but their entire make up got better and Im not sure He wins in Dallas under our ownership because they refuse to chances in FA. He would have gotten killed with our recent line struggles

https://www.espn.com/blog/tampa-bay...nings-shaq-barrett-cashes-in-on-prove-it-year

 

[Vtwin]

This is so ridiculous. In his 40s he won the super bowl with the freaking Bucs. A team that was a complete joke for years. Brady is the one that sets the tone of what is expected and he is the one setting the example and holding players accountable. He would have had massive success no matter where he went.

Not so ridiculous.

You make it sound like he took a terrible Bucs team and turned them into champions. Everything was in place on that team. Didn't they have the #1 offense the year prior? Didn't they lose games because the QB set a new record for interceptions? That Bucs team was set up for a deep run, they had a great d-line and defense in general and all they needed was a QB. (Maybe that's why Brady went there....)

What happened last season? Why couldn't Tom propel that very good team to another championship?

Brady is a great QB who can put a team over the top, but even the greatest can't do it by themselves. Belichick has built defenses and won rings before he ever heard of Brady. He is a great coach, one of the best ever.

You may think it's ridiculous to attribute the unprecedented success the Patriots had to the fact they had two of the best ever in their respective positions, but...... that's ridiculous.

Do you think Brady wins a championship in Dallas had he played on any of the teams we've had since 2001? Under any of the coaches that have coached those teams?

He probably has more success than we've seen but no way in hell does he put that resume together with most any other situation than the one he had in NE.

 

[mattjames2010]

No. This isn't golf, there is a ton of moving parts and even luck involved in every game.

Anyone saying someone like Marino is a failure all because the Dolphins ran into a buzzsaw that was the 49ers has no idea what they are talking about. It's a stupid metric that I am glad is falling to the wayside.

 

[blueblood70]

Yes They all suk.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Those QB’s in their prime were enough to build around . You don’t have to be Elite every year of your career to be enough some years.

Franchise QB’s aren’t necessarily Elite QB’s. But are enough for most teams to try and build around . Unfortunately there’s not enough Elite QB’s to fill 32 rosters .

but that was the question, newton was MVP and Gannon was MVP....to me its about being a high level player over and extended period. not catch lighting in a bottle because you were in the right place at the right time...

were they good enough to be part of a team that could win it? obviously. but you build around a great QB as the center piece, you may or may not win it. but you have a good QB and you know you have to have a lot more to win it, again you may or may not. in the end, its the team, not the individual. we can all argue about contribution.

and I agree, there is a difference between a franchise QB and an Elite QB. and I 100% agree at anytime there are at most 5 elite QBs, some come close, but most often most years, probably 2,3 elite.....right now we maybe at an age of renaissance of QBs, with Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen and some may argue stafford, Burrow...I think Herbert is knocking at the door.

my opinion, the first 4 are elite and rest are close.

 

[Tractor1]

So if a QB plays for a team ten or so seasons, was a high draft pick and never wins a SB, does that mean he was a Bust?

You've asked two different questions.

Someone who's played ten years in the league can't be considered a bust, but not winning a Super Bowl would be considered a failure since that's the goal.

 

[MyFairLady]

Anyone trying to minimize the incredible impact that Brady has had for his teams over the years is just kidding themselves. As though he fall *** backwards into another super bowl appearance every 2 years. He is the single greatest winner in the history of the NFL. He is the Jordan of QBs. His legacy is undisputable. No one else would have done what he did given the same circumstances. Absolutely no one.

 

[MyFairLady]

Not so ridiculous.

You make it sound like he took a terrible Bucs team and turned them into champions. Everything was in place on that team. Didn't they have the #1 offense the year prior? Didn't they lose games because the QB set a new record for interceptions? That Bucs team was set up for a deep run, they had a great d-line and defense in general and all they needed was a QB. (Maybe that's why Brady went there....)

What happened last season?

Everything was in place? LOL that team had not made the playoffs in over 10 years and only had one winning season over that span. What they needed was the greatest QB to ever play all right.

As far as last year goes they lost by 3 in the divisional round to the eventual super bowl champs. Not too bad for an off year for a 45 year old guy.

Look I have hated Brady more than anyone over the years but you simply can no longer say anything about the man except that he is the GOAT. Perhaps even the GOAT of all GOATS.

 

[MyFairLady]

What Brady provides is a better opportunity. But he’s not a lock to go to SB without a better supporting cast. Same for all Elite QB’s.

Of course he is not a lock but he is the single biggest upgrade that any team could ever have in the history of football. I know that given the first overall pick and you can pick anyone in history there are people on this board that would pick Zeke but I for one would swallow my pride, pick Brady and enjoy beating the crap out of everyone for the next 25 years.