Is Stephen Jones a "Football Guy?"

[newlander]

So John Mara, Dan Rooney, Art Rooney II, Jim Irsay, and all of the other owners are not footballl guys either?

I'm sorry but that is steeped in ignorance it frankly undermines those who
even think that way.

.....this post is the EPITOME of ignorance: Mara, Irsay, both Rooneys have won super bowls and stood on THEIR OWN FEET for years as their fathers have been dead for quite some time....but the question the OP had was: Is Stephen Jones a 'football guy'? Sure, he's a LOSING football guy and the others are WINNING football guys. That's a fact.

 

[Eddie]

I'd bet every dollar I had that if Stephen decided to the leave the Cowboys, more than a handful of teams would be begging to have him as their GM.

I would take that bet in a heart beat.

 

[TheCount]

I'd bet every dollar I had that if Stephen decided to the leave the Cowboys, more than a handful of teams would be begging to have him as their GM.

The real question is if he left, and he got that offer and a similar offer from a Fortune 500, which would he choose and how tough would the decision be.

Obviously there's no real way to answer that, but hell, some of us are probably "football guys" but work in jobs that have nothing to do with the sport, so what would the answer even reveal really.

 

[TwoDeep3]

The real question is if he left, and he got that offer and a similar offer from a Fortune 500, which would he choose and how tough would the decision be.

Obviously there's no real way to answer that, but hell, some of us are probably "football guys" but work in jobs that have nothing to do with the sport, so what would the answer even reveal really.

Or...

there are some that think they are, and post like they are, and have about as much in common with a football guy as Rosie O'Donnell does with male enhancement products.

 

[RS12]

Do I think Stephen is more objective than Jerry when he looks at this team? Yes. Do I think he is good at certain aspects of being a GM (ie cap, contracts)? Yes. Do I have more confidence in him running a team than Jerry? Yes. However when I think football guy, I think people like Ron Wolfe, Ken Herrock, people like that. People whose backgrounds run along the lines of scouting and talent evaluation.

 

[jday]

This thread gave me the inspiration for this topic. I thought we'd dial in more on this particular issue.

Do you consider Stephen Jones what some describe as a "football guy"?

Some believe he is not because he was brought into the organization by his daddy.


I believe he is a football guy.

He has been in the NFL business since he was 23 years old. He's now 48. That is 25 years of NFL experience.

To me, I'd find it rather insulting if say, someone graduated from law school and got hired by their dad's practice, then 25 years later someone said they aren't a "law guy" because of nepotism.

My father has been in the car business for thirty-five years. If I graduated from college and joined his business, would people not consider me a "car guy" twenty years from now?

Stephen was most recently on Talkin' Cowboys and something he said really made me think. He said he was glad he went to school for Engineering because it made him good with numbers, and therefore he found the salary cap easy. He also said that "everyone in the NFL learned together" when the cap was implemented. In other words he was part of the NFL when the cap was put in place, and therefore on level footing with the rest of the league. If he wasn't a football guy then, he probably is after that, because he was in the same boat as everyone else. He also said it would be different for someone new to come in now, because everyone else already knows how the cap works.

Stephen Jones... finds the cap easy... hmmm... I'm looking at you, Adam.

Also, Risen Star need not respond. We know your answer. But you may if you wish.

I think it's funny that people think it takes a "football guy" to have a winning organization. I'm not saying it doesn't help, but if they are not a "football guy", but, at the least, let their coaches do what they are paid to do and listen to them in the draft room, you can get much the same result as otherwise. Say what you want of Jerry Jones 5 years ago and beyond, as of late, I think you see he has dialed back the meddling by a considerable degree and most already all agree that he listens. I'd say the same is true of Stephen Jones, if not moreso.

 

[jday]

I'm not even sure what it means to be a football guy, to be honest.

Is it a type of pudding?

 

[TwoDeep3]

I think it's funny that people think it takes a "football guy" to have a winning organization. I'm not saying it doesn't help, but if they are not a "football guy", but, at the least, let their coaches do what they are paid to do and listen to them in the draft room, you can get much the same result as otherwise. Say what you want of Jerry Jones 5 years ago and beyond, as of late, I think you see he has dialed back the meddling by a considerable degree and most already all agree that he listens. I'd say the same is true of Stephen Jones, if not moreso.

To point one, you mean let the football guys run the football thing?

Of course you do!

Point two, please illuminate for the class how you know this?

What have you heard from a cab driver, or liquor store counterman, or perhaps even a dry cleaner that indicates Jerry is still not the final say, as he continues to say at every opportunity.

Is Jerry lying?

Do you have an inside source?

 

[perrykemp]

I'd bet every dollar I had that if Stephen decided to the leave the Cowboys, more than a handful of teams would be begging to have him as their GM.

Theogt, I usually agree with most of your sentiments -- however, I think you are dead wrong here.

I could see teams hungry for him as a capologist (sorta like Andrew Brandt was in Green Bay), but not as a personnel guy (GM).

 

[jday]

To point one, you mean let the football guys run the football thing?

Of course you do!

Point two, please illuminate for the class how you know this?

What have you heard from a cab driver, or liquor store counterman, or perhaps even a dry cleaner that indicates Jerry is still not the final say, as he continues to say at every opportunity.

Is Jerry lying?

Do you have an inside source?

Okay, so I am clear, my first point was stating that your GM doesn't have to be a "football guy." My second point was that Jerry doesn't meddle as much as he used to and he does listen. Regarding the final say, he owns the team, of course he has the final say. What team owner doesn't?

 

[85Cowboy85]

I think some people confuse "evaluating personel" with "making personel decisions".

Jerry (and Steven) do not evaluate players and never have. They use the scouts evaluations to make the best personel decisions and build the best football team.

It's really an entirely different skill then being a coach or a scout. It's more of a management type job. You have to work with the coaches to build the team in such a way which fits their philosophy while simultaneously promoting the more long term interest of the club while fitting it all under the salary cap.

I think Stevwn is actually more qualified to be a GM in this regard then any guy whose background is primarily in scouting. I would feel much more comfortable with Steven as GM then I would just plucking the top scout out of another teams front office.

 

[CowboyMike]

I think some people confuse "evaluating personel" with "making personel decisions".

Jerry (and Steven) do not evaluate players and never have. They use the scouts evaluations to make the best personel decisions and build the best football team.

It's really an entirely different skill then being a coach or a scout. It's more of a management type job. You have to work with the coaches to build the team in such a way which fits their philosophy while simultaneously promoting the more long term interest of the club while fitting it all under the salary cap.

I think Stevwn is actually more qualified to be a GM in this regard then any guy whose background is primarily in scouting. I would feel much more comfortable with Steven as GM then I would just plucking the top scout out of another teams front office.

:clap2:

 

[Hostile]

.....this post is the EPITOME of ignorance: Mara, Irsay, both Rooneys have won super bowls and stood on THEIR OWN FEET for years as their fathers have been dead for quite some time....but the question the OP had was: Is Stephen Jones a 'football guy'? Sure, he's a LOSING football guy and the others are WINNING football guys. That's a fact.

Stephen doesn't have SuperBowl rings?

1992, 1993, & 1995.

 

[Risen Star]

Stephen doesn't have SuperBowl rings?

1992, 1993, & 1995.

He did absolutely nothing to earn those rings.

That's some clear desperation to even mention it.

 

[Risen Star]

I think some people confuse "evaluating personel" with "making personel decisions".

Jerry (and Steven) do not evaluate players and never have. They use the scouts evaluations to make the best personel decisions and build the best football team.

I think you're right on that. But that's a problem. Because the GM and the Director of Personnel are supposed to be the sharpest personnel eyes in the building. Not complete frauds who just like the thrill of making the decisions.

Somebody said in this thread, let the coaches do what they get paid to do. As if they get paid to scout and acquire talent. They don't. It's the two positions the Jones twins hold that are paid to build the team. We don't win anymore because they suck at it. It's really as simple as that.

 

[Illini88228]

Those crying about nepotism should remember that Stephen didn't start out where he is now. He worked his way up. Just because he comes from the cap management side instead of scouting doesn't mean he doesn't have a valuable background that helps with his current GM-ish responsibilities.

 

[Risen Star]

I would take that bet in a heart beat.

I'd take it too. It'd be stealing money. No team in the league would even interview him for the position.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

Nepotism was definately in effect when Stephen was hired ... however what you do with the position after you were hired is up to you. I think Stephen is great at what he does ... manage the salary cap and negotiate player contracts.

Excuse me but haven't the front office been criticized for that exact thing... handing out terrible contracts (MB3, T-new, Hamlin ect) and being in trouble with the cap?

How is that doing a great job?

As for the football guy thing - to me a true football guy (or almost any other trade) is a guy that maybe started out as a ball player then went into coaching or right into being a scout and worked his way up - thats "making your bones" IMO those types make the better GMs.

 

[Illini88228]

As for the football guy thing - to me a true football guy (or almost any other trade) is a guy that maybe started out as a ball player then went into coaching or right into being a scout and worked his way up - thats "making your bones" IMO those types make the better GMs.

How about a guy that played through college then worked for an NFL team starting when he was 23?

 

[nyc-cowboy]

How about a guy that played through college then worked for an NFL team starting when he was 23?

So how do you explain the bad contracts and cap problems we've had recently?

The cap that he said was so easy to manage.