Is this board capable of providing facts that Stephen is just as bad as Jerry?

[G2]

The idiocy is advanced

 

[Brax]

you seem angry at me for asking tough questions

No not at all that’s what this place is about, I just don’t get how anyone can believe anyone in the Jones family can build a championship team based on the failures of the last 30 seasons , the contracts, coaches and the team building process and what the Jones say week in and week out. They simply put aren’t football people they are a hobby business and it’s run like one, family and friends and yes men.

 

[acr731]

Is this board capable of providing facts that support Stephen being just as bad as Jerry?

Stephen gets a lot of hate around here. Most of it seems pointless or attempts to manipulate you into thinking he is a trash decision maker.

What has Stephen done, not one or two things, but what is the list of mistakes that makes him unfit to take over?

This will be good for this board. I think a lot of posts will be desperate attempts to try and control my thinking...that Stephen doesnt deserve a shot because he is bad...without good reasons on why I should think that. It wants to tell me how to think about him, whether right or wrong.

Im gonna see a bunch of posts that dont bridge the gap. Example: "Jerry fired Jimmy therefor he is a narcissist". Way too much info missing to make that jump.

So...I have read about Stephen writing bad contracts. Ok...do we know he was fully responsible or did Jerry meddle? How the h e l l am I supposed to know Stephen is/was fully responsible with Jerry lurking?

So...I have heard posters complain that Stephen is a penny pincher. In Free Agency? What is Stephen responsible for that being a pennywise in a certain area is detrimental to the team?

If posters want to make jumps with nothing bridging the gap...cant I say that since Stephen ripped the Johnny Manziel card out of Jerry's hand....that shows Stephen knows some things? Or....when its someone you want to hate on like Stephen...its just simply "a broken clock is right twice a day"?

How do YOU know that Stephen will follow Jerry's GM'ing style? You dont.

Stephen has been in the immediate decision making circle since he was in his 20's. He's got 30 years experience with a football team. Jerry seems to have a personality issue that is effecting his teams...how do I make the jump to Stephen having those same issues?

I dont doubt that the Family wants the money train to continue choo choo'ing...but I cant just make the jump to "Like father like son. Its impossible for him to succeed" like some on this board try to make you think.

Can I get a list of things that support the Stephen hate around here?

Pay close attention to the type of responses I get to this.

You have to be a member of the Jones family. No one else on this board or in the entire state of Texas would be dumb enough to go to the lengths you have gone trying to defend Jerry and Stephen.

Are you and @rambo2 related, or is this a case of same user = 2 accounts?

 

[Flamma]

Is this board capable of providing facts that support Stephen being just as bad as Jerry?

Stephen gets a lot of hate around here. Most of it seems pointless or attempts to manipulate you into thinking he is a trash decision maker.

What has Stephen done, not one or two things, but what is the list of mistakes that makes him unfit to take over?

This will be good for this board. I think a lot of posts will be desperate attempts to try and control my thinking...that Stephen doesnt deserve a shot because he is bad...without good reasons on why I should think that. It wants to tell me how to think about him, whether right or wrong.

Im gonna see a bunch of posts that dont bridge the gap. Example: "Jerry fired Jimmy therefor he is a narcissist". Way too much info missing to make that jump.

So...I have read about Stephen writing bad contracts. Ok...do we know he was fully responsible or did Jerry meddle? How the h e l l am I supposed to know Stephen is/was fully responsible with Jerry lurking?

So...I have heard posters complain that Stephen is a penny pincher. In Free Agency? What is Stephen responsible for that being a pennywise in a certain area is detrimental to the team?

If posters want to make jumps with nothing bridging the gap...cant I say that since Stephen ripped the Johnny Manziel card out of Jerry's hand....that shows Stephen knows some things? Or....when its someone you want to hate on like Stephen...its just simply "a broken clock is right twice a day"?

How do YOU know that Stephen will follow Jerry's GM'ing style? You dont.

Stephen has been in the immediate decision making circle since he was in his 20's. He's got 30 years experience with a football team. Jerry seems to have a personality issue that is effecting his teams...how do I make the jump to Stephen having those same issues?

I dont doubt that the Family wants the money train to continue choo choo'ing...but I cant just make the jump to "Like father like son. Its impossible for him to succeed" like some on this board try to make you think.

Can I get a list of things that support the Stephen hate around here?

Pay close attention to the type of responses I get to this.

First and foremost, both Jerry and his son believe in their process. Secondly, Stephen has said he would take less risk when Jerry is gone. What risk does Jerry take now? What does less than no risk look like?

 

[kskboys]

No not at all that’s what this place is about, I just don’t get how anyone can believe anyone in the Jones family can build a championship team based on the failures of the last 30 seasons , the contracts, coaches and the team building process and what the Jones say week in and week out. They simply put aren’t football people they are a hobby business and it’s run like one, family and friends and yes men.

It doesn't appear that Stephen will even attempt to build the team. He has stated he will hire others.

Jerry's biggest flaw, by far, is extreme narcissism and the extreme need to promote himself and prove himself right. I do not see this in Stephen. What are you seeing that makes you think he'll make all these decisions himself?

 

[FanofJerry]

No not at all that’s what this place is about, I just don’t get how anyone can believe anyone in the Jones family can build a championship team based on the failures of the last 30 seasons , the contracts, coaches and the team building process and what the Jones say week in and week out. They simply put aren’t football people they are a hobby business and it’s run like one, family and friends and yes men.

Your wording makes it seem like Stephen will do the same as his Dad, which is have his hand in everything and insist on making very questionable decisions week in and week out.

Maybe, at this point, 60 year old Stephen is so accustomed to being involved in the decision making process and he wont be able to remove himself once he takes helm. I dont know.

I do agree with the 'hobby' description...its perfect. I think that is what an outsider looking in would see if they followed this team for a number of years. But, and circling back to the same issue, I dont think it means that Stephen will run the business exactly like his Father.

Im not saying he will be the best decision maker or business man...Im simply saying that I think Jerry does some very very uncanny, outlandish things decision making wise...and my money is on a lot of those things being because of Jerry's 'one-of-one' personalities.

-Hire a competent GM and let him do things without meddling
-Remove the direct line of communication to Players that Jerry allowed
-Dont comment on players or their status to the media that could undermine a coach
-No Jones is to have even a 7th round pick each year, let alone a 2nd round pick to play with
-Taper off any unnecessary distractions

I dont think any of the above is asking Stephen to move mountains, and I think it would go a long way to improving the team without hurting the bottom line.

This of course is assuming that Stephen is not a super control freak that likes being center of attention. I think the Family has a plan for their business that involves a key player(in this case Stephen) regularly being in front of the cameras to sell sell sell, and I dont think that has to be a distraction or hurt the team if done in a classy way.

The most concerning thing I am reading here is the 'tight wad' comments about Stephen and then hearing that Jerry doesnt like to pay coaches AND we operate with less staff than other teams. Why? Because if this family is so concerned about the bottom line, they would need to increase the payroll significantly, and the family might butt heads over this. Supposedly McCarthy is underpaid compared to other coaches, we already pay McClay...but probably need to get VP and/or GM in here...that would be a few million, poach some good FO guys from around the league will cost a pretty penny, increase staff will cost money, etc.. We will see how it goes.

TL; DR = Unless the FAMILY business model is to create 'drama for profit' and football is secondary, I have not seen signs that Stephen has main character syndrome like Jerry. I assume Stephen will run the team very differently than Jerry, and the fewer distractions will be noticeable. Not saying it will be successful, just that there will be far less to knit-pick about. It will be less 'circus-y'.

 

[Brax]

Your wording makes it seem like Stephen will do the same as his Dad, which is have his hand in everything and insist on making very questionable decisions week in and week out.

Maybe, at this point, 60 year old Stephen is so accustomed to being involved in the decision making process and he wont be able to remove himself once he takes helm. I dont know.

I do agree with the 'hobby' description...its perfect. I think that is what an outsider looking in would see if they followed this team for a number of years. But, and circling back to the same issue, I dont think it means that Stephen will run the business exactly like his Father.

Im not saying he will be the best decision maker or business man...Im simply saying that I think Jerry does some very very uncanny, outlandish things decision making wise...and my money is on a lot of those things being because of Jerry's 'one-of-one' personalities.

-Hire a competent GM and let him do things without meddling
-Remove the direct line of communication to Players that Jerry allowed
-Dont comment on players or their status to the media that could undermine a coach
-No Jones is to have even a 7th round pick each year, let alone a 2nd round pick to play with
-Taper off any unnecessary distractions

I dont think any of the above is asking Stephen to move mountains, and I think it would go a long way to improving the team without hurting the bottom line.

This of course is assuming that Stephen is not a super control freak that likes being center of attention. I think the Family has a plan for their business that involves a key player(in this case Stephen) regularly being in front of the cameras to sell sell sell, and I dont think that has to be a distraction or hurt the team if done in a classy way.

The most concerning thing I am reading here is the 'tight wad' comments about Stephen and then hearing that Jerry doesnt like to pay coaches AND we operate with less staff than other teams. Why? Because if this family is so concerned about the bottom line, they would need to increase the payroll significantly, and the family might butt heads over this. Supposedly McCarthy is underpaid compared to other coaches, we already pay McClay...but probably need to get VP and/or GM in here...that would be a few million, poach some good FO guys from around the league will cost a pretty penny, increase staff will cost money, etc.. We will see how it goes.

TL; DR = Unless the FAMILY business model is to create 'drama for profit' and football is secondary, I have not seen signs that Stephen has main character syndrome like Jerry. I assume Stephen will run the team very differently than Jerry, and the fewer distractions will be noticeable. Not saying it will be successful, just that there will be far less to knit-pick about. It will be less 'circus-y'.

We won’t know till Jerry is pushing up daisies what SJ will do, hopefully he’ll clean house and hire competent people who know how to build a roster to compete against the best teams in the league not the dregs of the league

 

[DandyDon1722]

This team is in a major downturn, as the losses, non-glory (30 years), and Jerry's Kool-Aid have grown stale.
Ratings will start dropping and heck our games will start to be flexed at some point and the bags at home games will be the norm.
Jerry would be smart to SELL the team within the 12 months as he would receive Max payout for his investment.
Fans want winners and even after Jerry's death who has confidence that the Jones clan (Beverly Hillbillies) can bring another SB to Dallas.
Sell Jerry and Sell while you still can get mucho $$$$$

Please see post #113 on Charlotte. She’s the only chance we have to be a respected organization again

 

[VaqueroTD]

Could be wrong, but I think the one thing going for us with Stephen is I don’t think he shares his old man’s infatuation with the media and attention. Behind the scenes he could still be a power guy Who thinks he can run it best, but feels like the coach undermining, stupid press statements, and everything else in the Jethro Show would quickly end.

 

[gtb1943]

Huh?

This makes no sense. I was not arguing that either of the Joneses has done well in any way.

Read what I wrote and try again.

No get some common sense. Just because a guy has worked at ACE for thirty years at the counter does not make him a able to build a house. Get that?

 

[FanofJerry]

Could be wrong, but I think the one thing going for us with Stephen is I don’t think he shares his old man’s infatuation with the media and attention. Behind the scenes he could still be a power guy Who thinks he can run it best, but feels like the coach undermining, stupid press statements, and everything else in the Jethro Show would quickly end.

I agree.

One thing I am iffy about is, after almost 40 years of interning, will the guy want to be GM for a few years. I would assume so. And, I will give him that shot. He's been in line for a LONG time to take over Daddy's toy. He could end up being good at it even.

My money is on him probably not hiring an outside GM, and on him and Will McClay giving it a go for a couple of years. Again, Im fine with that after he interned for so long. But its a rather short leash with me.

Im sure he will be a power guy...but an "I want to be in on every decision, want a 3rd round pick for me and my kids and Grandkids to pick a player every year...and I want drones to hover over the practice field in the form of my face winking every practice"....I just dont think he can out-do Jerry or come close to equaling him. UNLESS...the family is in on "circus for profit over football" ideology.

 

[Bobhaze]

Maybe you are onto something with the 'draft and develop' thing. I wouldnt know.

I would still need to know who out of Jerry, Stephen and Will pushed for that philosophy.

Why does that even matter? Professional sports are all about winning championships. I could not care less who exactly is making all the decisions.

Why do I not care who is making every decision? I have some numbers that REALLY matter that I care more about:

• 28 (soon to be 29)
• 4-10 (playoff record this century)
• 1 (playoff win in the last 6 seasons)

So who cares what any of us think or what “proof” we have about Jerry or Stephen as ”football decision making guys”? Teams that are serious about winning a championship don’t keep front office people with this kind of record. Only in Dallas.

 

[FanofJerry]

Why does that even matter? Professional sports are all about winning championships. I could not care less who exactly is making all the decisions.

Why do I not care who is making every decision? I have some numbers that REALLY matter that I care more about:

• 28 (soon to be 29)
• 4-10 (playoff record this century)
• 1 (playoff win in the last 6 seasons)

So who cares what any of us think or what “proof” we have about Jerry or Stephen as ”football decision making guys”? Teams that are serious about winning a championship don’t keep front office people with this kind of record. Only in Dallas.

This is how ridiculous internet boards are. Do I really have to spell this out to you?

And, I already addressed this very issue in a post a page or two back...

Anyway...you can apply blame to Stephen just because he is in the decision making room even though no one knows who does what. Seems fair.

Is Stephen supposed to quit the job and go to a ball club with a winning franchise so he can escape Bobhaze unfair hate? Nope, he is going to play 'yes, man' until he gets his $10B football team that he has been interning at for 35 years. Just like any person with have a brain would do. Yes...that means you to, Bob. My money is on you playing yes, man if in Stephens shoes right now.

This is Jerry's toy until lawyers get involved. And all issues fall at his doorstep since no one knows which decisions Stephen, Jerry Jr, Charlotte or McClay have made. Pretty simple and fair.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Your answer is in Stephen's own words. He's doing this because he is thrilled to be spending time with his dad.

Don't confuse that as I love this job, I find it challenging, or I want to win a Super Bowl.

He said he loves the time he is spending with PT Booger.

Now my son and I decided to build a CNC as a father/son project. During the build son got a GF which is way more fun than spending time with dad. And the project became dad's thing

Stephen should just get his own life and quit trying to follow the old circus clown.

Well, maybe that's good. Maybe he will be more inclined to hire GMs to run the football side of the business while he runs the stuff he enjoys doing.

 

[phildadon86]

When have I been nothing but call things straight in regards to Jerry or the Cowboys? You cant provide any proof unless its something taken out of context or unless it was something I was half joking about. Thats fact.

If Jerry gave Stephen the title of Director of Player Personnel in 1989 when Stephen was 29 years old...he was MOST LIKELY unqualified for the title unless he was a savant or a wizard. I agree he was most likely not qualified and had no skins on the wall to deserve the job. Assuming you have to be a football guy to succeed in a position like that.

But...again...you are side stepping the 35 years of current experience. You are trying to muddy the convo by pulling us back to 1989 when Stephen was given a job with a football team his Dad bought. We arent talking 1989...its 2024. You still havent provided evidence to back up your stance that Stephen COULD NEVER EVER EVER collect the knowledge and succeed after 35 years interning....only someone that started at the bottom could possibly succeed.

Where do these interns come from at other Organizations? They have to be ex-players? You cant start a football career at 29 years old and learn some things over 35 years? Its not allowed lol.

You arent making sense. You want to tell me how to think about a subject without filling in the gaps.

He still is unqualified.

This is the same guy who said Zekes contract would start at the Gurley number. To the media. lol. Stop

 

[Bobhaze]

This is how ridiculous internet boards are. Do I really have to spell this out to you?

And, I already addressed this very issue in a post a page or two back...

Anyway...you can apply blame to Stephen just because he is in the decision making room even though no one knows who does what. Seems fair.

Is Stephen supposed to quit the job and go to a ball club with a winning franchise so he can escape Bobhaze unfair hate? Nope, he is going to play 'yes, man' until he gets his $10B football team that he has been interning at for 35 years. Just like any person with have a brain would do. Yes...that means you to, Bob. My money is on you playing yes, man if in Stephens shoes right now.

This is Jerry's toy until lawyers get involved. And all issues fall at his doorstep since no one knows which decisions Stephen, Jerry Jr, Charlotte or McClay have made. Pretty simple and fair.

“Bobhaze unfair hate”…. Hate?

My point is any front office with the records these guys have in the playoffs would have been fired a long, long time ago. So any argument about “decision making” is already shown in the results they have consistently produced for three decades.

Look I don’t care who is running this team, who is “making all the decisions”…the results these guys are getting by any professional football metric - if the metric starts with winning a championship- is not good enough to keep their jobs anywhere but here in Dallas.

Thats not “hate”. That’s just true.

 

[FanofJerry]

He still is unqualified.

This is the same guy who said Zekes contract would start at the Gurley number. To the media. lol. Stop

Stop? After one mistake? Didnt I address that in my original post?

The Jones' arent running their ship like Scientology...and who would want like their teams ball club to be run with a strict 'no talking' policy? Sounds extremely boring.

Stephen got this one wrong...even if its a cardinal rule. Still need to see him at the helm first or a long list of mistakes. Im not abandoning hope on Michael Jordan for playing 18 holes and drinking a 12 pack before a night game. People do dumb things here and there.

 

[FanofJerry]

“Bobhaze unfair hate”…. Hate?

My point is any front office with the records these guys have in the playoffs would have been fired a long, long time ago. So any argument about “decision making” is already shown in the results they have consistently produced for three decades.

Look I don’t care who is running this team, who is “making all the decisions”…the results these guys are getting by any professional football metric - if the metric starts with winning a championship- is not good enough to keep their jobs anywhere but here in Dallas.

Thats not “hate”. That’s just true.

Jerry would be fired I guess.

Cool, you run things like everyone associated with the head honcho should be let go. I prefer to look at things on a finer level if I was to evaluate the Cowboys decision makers. You look at it like a HC and his Staff...if the HC gets fired so do most of his staff...whether justified or not. Thats not what I am talking about here.

You want to simply this and say "He is of this coaching tree" or "He is of this school of thought" before ever being given a chance. Its not fair and becomes hateful eventually when someone knows something isnt fair and keeps the same stance.

I agree, Stephen is a Jones and been in the losing room for 30 years...but its not his circus. He isnt buddy buddy with the players or landing helios on the practice field or refusing coaches to discipline players...its Jerry.

I will agree that Jerry has probably taken the fall for Stephen many times over the past 15 years. I would bet that some of those 2nd Round picks that people say are Jerry....might actually be Stephen trying to show his worth...but Jerry took the fall. But...WE DONT KNOW THAT YET.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No get some common sense. Just because a guy has worked at ACE for thirty years at the counter does not make him a able to build a house. Get that?

I never said he could.

You said that they were in a different reality. Care to discuss that or just wave your hands at the strawman?

 

[phildadon86]

Stop? After one mistake? Didnt I address that in my original post?

The Jones' arent running their ship like Scientology...and who would want like their teams ball club to be run with a strict 'no talking' policy? Sounds extremely boring.

Stephen got this one wrong...even if its a cardinal rule. Still need to see him at the helm first or a long list of mistakes. Im not abandoning hope on Michael Jordan for playing 18 holes and drinking a 12 pack before a night game. People do dumb things here and there.

You think Stephen has made one mistake?

God bless you.