Is Zeke a top 3 running back?

[Thomas82]

Agree, I know I have seem some posts let Zeke go and we will find his replacement easily in round 3 or 4 and will not skip a beat in the run game.

We have already seen more than once with our own team how this situation plays out in real life.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

We have already seen more than once with our own team how this situation plays out in real life.

LLLOOOLLL, this

 

[beware_d-ware]

No sir. Not even close.

Zeke's inefficiency as a pass catcher needs to improve for the offense to move forward. On 21 targets(catching 20 of them) on 3rd and 8+ Zeke had one 1st down conversion. ONE!!! The 2nd worst in the league.

His receiving skills are fine, maybe even good, but not remotely close to the best.

I think his lack of long yardage conversions largely come down to his usage, or lack thereof. I've been watching some game rewinds, and on long yardage, we literally call the same two routes every time for Elliott: a 2 yard hitch where he turns back to face Prescott, or the classic RB leak to the sideline.

I just thumbed back through the second Philly game for some examples, since Zeke caught 12 balls in that game. He doesn't convert a 3rd and 8, but he does convert a 3rd and 6 and 3rd and 7. More importantly, all of his long yardage catches come on the exact same route every time. He does a good job with the usage he is given IMO, but he isn't given much of a chance to convert long downs.

Spoiler

 

[kskboys]

I think his lack of long yardage conversions largely come down to his usage, or lack thereof. I've been watching some game rewinds, and on long yardage, we literally call the same two routes every time for Elliott: a 2 yard hitch where he turns back to face Prescott, or the classic RB leak to the sideline.

I just thumbed back through the second Philly game for some examples, since Zeke caught 12 balls in that game. He doesn't convert a 3rd and 8, but he does convert a 3rd and 6 and 3rd and 7. More importantly, all of his long yardage catches come on the exact same route every time. He does a good job with the usage he is given IMO, but he isn't given much of a chance to convert long downs.

Spoiler

I'm actually shocked that people don't understand how bad our playcalling has been.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yeah, you said Barkley had 2 fumbles, I provided a link showing he had zero and you provided a link that didn’t even have his name on the list.

Good for Zeke, that’s still 6 fumbles, I never brought up how many he lost and it’s not an admirable statistic whether he lost them or not.

Oh I see there's a new stat now named almost turn overs. Elliott has 5 in that stat and if he gets one more the Cowboys will have to forfeit 2 games as punishment. Another "fan" trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
.

 

[aria]

Oh I see there's a new stat now named almost turn overs. Elliott has 5 in that stat and if he gets one more the Cowboys will have to forfeit 2 games as punishment. Another "fan" trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
.

Yeah, fumbles shouldn’t matter when debating who is a better RB I forgot, the only statistic that does matter is total rushing yards because that favors Zeke and once he doesn’t have the highest total yards then that won’t matter either.

Sorry homer, you can still be a “fan” and think other players on other teams are better than ours. Go to one of the several Dak threads and tell all the “fans” who don’t think Dak is the best that they aren’t really fans.

BTW, most “fans” would know Zeke had 6 fumbles, not 5, but I wouldn’t expect an ignorant uninformed fake fan such as yourself to know that. That’s what homers do, blindly support without knowing facts and if your referring to fumbles not lost, hence the 5, then that doesn’t make it any less impressive. Who cares about possible lost yards and waste of a down? That should never matter in a football game.

By that standard I guess when comparing who is a better QB then it shouldn’t matter if one QB throws darts to his receivers and the other hits defenders right in the hand but they drop it since technically he didn’t turn it over.

It seems Zeke agrees with me but hey, he had a 100 yard game and that’s all that matters! Stepping out of bounds with his intense focus and fumbling the ball just once which was is one more than Barkley and greatly contributed to the loss doesn’t matter. Guess if he fumbles on 3rd or 4th down and he recovers but doesn’t get the first that doesn’t matter either, I’d hate to see that happen in the playoffs and it costs us the game so I wouldn’t have to tell you how right you are about fumbles not mattering if they are recovered.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article218913265.html

 

[Hadenough]

We have already seen more than once with our own team how this situation plays out in real life.

Remember when Dallas passed on Stephen Jackson to draft Julius Jones.

 

[Hadenough]

I think his lack of long yardage conversions largely come down to his usage, or lack thereof. I've been watching some game rewinds, and on long yardage, we literally call the same two routes every time for Elliott: a 2 yard hitch where he turns back to face Prescott, or the classic RB leak to the sideline.

I just thumbed back through the second Philly game for some examples, since Zeke caught 12 balls in that game. He doesn't convert a 3rd and 8, but he does convert a 3rd and 6 and 3rd and 7. More importantly, all of his long yardage catches come on the exact same route every time. He does a good job with the usage he is given IMO, but he isn't given much of a chance to convert long downs.

Spoiler

The one thing I noticed about that play is the attention that Zeke draws from the philly defense.

 

[Thomas82]

Remember when Dallas passed on Stephen Jackson to draft Julius Jones.

Man, I remember that 2004 draft like it was yesterday.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yeah, fumbles shouldn’t matter when debating who is a better RB I forgot, the only statistic that does matter is total rushing yards because that favors Zeke and once he doesn’t have the highest total yards then that won’t matter either.

Sorry homer, you can still be a “fan” and think other players on other teams are better than ours. Go to one of the several Dak threads and tell all the “fans” who don’t think Dak is the best that they aren’t really fans.

BTW, most “fans” would know Zeke had 6 fumbles, not 5, but I wouldn’t expect an ignorant uninformed fake fan such as yourself to know that. That’s what homers do, blindly support without knowing facts and if your referring to fumbles not lost, hence the 5, then that doesn’t make it any less impressive. Who cares about possible lost yards and waste of a down? That should never matter in a football game.

By that standard I guess when comparing who is a better QB then it shouldn’t matter if one QB throws darts to his receivers and the other hits defenders right in the hand but they drop it since technically he didn’t turn it over.

It seems Zeke agrees with me but hey, he had a 100 yard game and that’s all that matters! Stepping out of bounds with his intense focus and fumbling the ball just once which was is one more than Barkley and greatly contributed to the loss doesn’t matter. Guess if he fumbles on 3rd or 4th down and he recovers but doesn’t get the first that doesn’t matter either, I’d hate to see that happen in the playoffs and it costs us the game so I wouldn’t have to tell you how right you are about fumbles not mattering if they are recovered.

https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/article218913265.html

Besides having a reading problem you're just fixated on that one stat as most people are with who is leading the league in rushing. Your reading problem is I did say Elliott had 6 fumbles not only 5 but I said he only lost 1 and FIVE he didn't. You analogy of those 5 fumbles not lost are such wasted downs, tell me do you get this overly excited when Prescott doesn't complete a pass. Do you go off on those were such wasted downs and if he just complete one more pass the Cowboys would have won whatever game? Again the PRIMARY job of a running back is to run the ball and get as many yards as he can. Elliott for 2 out of 3 years did that more than any other back and if not for his suspension very well could have done for all 3 years. Again you're TRYING to create a mountain out of a mole hill. BTW there are many players around the league I think are better than some of the Cowboys and say so quite often, but as running backs go doing their primary job of running the ball, Elliott is the best right now. I also think Prescott is better than what most of the Prescott haters think he is but there are several QB's that if I had a magic wand and could put other QB's under the Cowboys center I would. On the other hand there are a lot of them that I wouldn't take over Prescott. One last thing the last time I checked football is a team sport and as such even if Elliott took the blame for the seattle loss, if every other player can say that they did their job perfectly on every play that game and if they did that fumble would mount to a hill of beans because the Cowboys would have won by 30 points. But since every other play didn't play perfectly and the other players if they did something on any play differently maybe the the Cowboys would have scored more TD's or converted more 1st downs. Elliott showed some class and falling on the sword but we both know that if the other players played as perfect as you want Elliott to be the game wouldn't have been close.players

.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Besides having a reading problem you're just fixated on that one stat as most people are with who is leading the league in rushing. Your reading problem is I did say Elliott had 6 fumbles not only 5 but I said he only lost 1 and FIVE he didn't. You analogy of those 5 fumbles not lost are such wasted downs, tell me do you get this overly excited when Prescott doesn't complete a pass. Do you go off on those were such wasted downs and if he just complete one more pass the Cowboys would have won whatever game?

-Fumble recoveries are essentially random; there's no skill involved to it. If Zeke fumbled 6 times and we recovered 5, we simply got lucky.
-Turnovers are one of the easiest and most consistent ways to predict the outcome of a game. The team that loses the turnover battle is going to lose the game more often than not.

So fumbles are an issue no matter if we recovered them, because we may not get so lucky next time, and that could have a pretty direct impact on our final record.

 

[aria]

Besides having a reading problem you're just fixated on that one stat as most people are with who is leading the league in rushing. Your reading problem is I did say Elliott had 6 fumbles not only 5 but I said he only lost 1 and FIVE he didn't. You analogy of those 5 fumbles not lost are such wasted downs, tell me do you get this overly excited when Prescott doesn't complete a pass. Do you go off on those were such wasted downs and if he just complete one more pass the Cowboys would have won whatever game? Again the PRIMARY job of a running back is to run the ball and get as many yards as he can. Elliott for 2 out of 3 years did that more than any other back and if not for his suspension very well could have done for all 3 years. Again you're TRYING to create a mountain out of a mole hill. BTW there are many players around the league I think are better than some of the Cowboys and say so quite often, but as running backs go doing their primary job of running the ball, Elliott is the best right now. I also think Prescott is better than what most of the Prescott haters think he is but there are several QB's that if I had a magic wand and could put other QB's under the Cowboys center I would. On the other hand there are a lot of them that I wouldn't take over Prescott. One last thing the last time I checked football is a team sport and as such even if Elliott took the blame for the seattle loss, if every other player can say that they did their job perfectly on every play that game and if they did that fumble would mount to a hill of beans because the Cowboys would have won by 30 points. But since every other play didn't play perfectly and the other players if they did something on any play differently maybe the the Cowboys would have scored more TD's or converted more 1st downs. Elliott showed some class and falling on the sword but we both know that if the other players played as perfect as you want Elliott to be the game wouldn't have been close.players

.

Wow! You need to learn how to use paragraphs, that is one jumbled mess. Even a comma would help break things up.

First of all, I corrected myself in reference to your fumbles, guess you overlooked that or didn’t understand which is odd because you go on to actually use my correction to start your next rant. Interesting. Regardless, no I don’t go off on Dak every time he throws an incomplete pass because that is normal for quarterbacks and there are several different factors involved unlike a RB who doesn’t have to rely on anyone else to protect the ball. Leading the lead in fumbles by a large margin isn’t an admirable statistic no matter how you like to minimize it. One thing you conveniently left out of the running backs primary job other than gaining yards is protecting the ball which Zeke doesn’t do well.

You’re right, football is a team sport so why not acknowledge that Zeke wouldn’t have near the success he’s had behind, oh say, the Giants offensive line?

I never blamed Zeke for the Seattle loss, I just said he blamed himself. Check my post history, I’ve said he shouldn’t have taken the blame but he definitely contributed to it. As perfect as I want him to be? I’d say me calling him the 2nd best and not far behind Barkley is pretty close but unless I say he is the best then that won’t be good enough for the homers.

At least we agree on Prescott

 

[gjkoeppen]

Wow! You need to learn how to use paragraphs, that is one jumbled mess. Even a comma would help break things up.

First of all, I corrected myself in reference to your fumbles, guess you overlooked that or didn’t understand which is odd because you go on to actually use my correction to start your next rant. Interesting. Regardless, no I don’t go off on Dak every time he throws an incomplete pass because that is normal for quarterbacks and there are several different factors involved unlike a RB who doesn’t have to rely on anyone else to protect the ball. Leading the lead in fumbles by a large margin isn’t an admirable statistic no matter how you like to minimize it. One thing you conveniently left out of the running backs primary job other than gaining yards is protecting the ball which Zeke doesn’t do well.

You’re right, football is a team sport so why not acknowledge that Zeke wouldn’t have near the success he’s had behind, oh say, the Giants offensive line?

I never blamed Zeke for the Seattle loss, I just said he blamed himself. Check my post history, I’ve said he shouldn’t have taken the blame but he definitely contributed to it. As perfect as I want him to be? I’d say me calling him the 2nd best and not far behind Barkley is pretty close but unless I say he is the best then that won’t be good enough for the homers.

At least we agree on Prescott

I no longer live in Texas but I have friends here that are fans of other teams that say Elliott in unquestionably the best back in the league. You don't have to be a homer to think Elliott is the best back in the league, but you do have to understand what the primary job of a running back is and to that Elliott has proved that by leading the league 2 out of the last 3 years and could have done it all 3 years.

Your hypothetical question has no way of proving it one way or another because Elliott doesn't run behind any other line. A little history lesson for you. Walter Payton ran behind a very good Bears line on the other hand Barry Sanders ran behind a Lions line that wasn't that great but he still managed to lead the league 4 times. So your presumption that Elliott woukldn't lead the league in rushing if running behind another line is based solely on your opinion and again can't be proven one way or another.

So you make up excuses why you don't get all bummed out when Prescott doesn't complete passes. Now I'm talking about the passes receivers drop or a defender makes a good play and knocks it down, I'm talking about the passes that Prescott just misses his receivers badly. After all his primary job is to complete passes and using your analogy of if he completed just one more of those errant throws to keep drives alive and possibly score a TD the Cowboys could have won more games.

Here's a little quiz for you since you're so big on fumbles. What starting RB with a min of 150 carries a year went the longest without losing the ball with a fumble? A back started with the St. Louis Cardinals his 1st 4 years and then his 5th season he went to the packers and on his 2nd carry there he lost the ball for his 1st time, MacArthur Lane.
.

 

[CATCH17]

Criticizing Saquon for mixing stuffs with 40 yard runs feels as shortsighted to me as criticizing Zeke for never having 40 yard runs. At the end of the season, Barkley ended up totalling 2000 scrimmage yards just like Zeke, and those boom and bust runs averaged out to a very healthy 5.0 YPC. That's All-Pro production no matter how you slice it.

Factor in that Barkley put up those All-Pro numbers without his OL, QB, and coaches doing him any favors, and I think he's got a strong case to already call himself the best back in the game. I'll still die on the Zeke hill, but I'm not going to disparage Barkley to do it; dude's a stud.

The point is that Barkley isn’t all that great down to down and he is more of a big play back.

He doesn’t run to his size. He’s a finesse player and relies on the big play to fill out his stats.

 

[cern]

Zeke has been the best rb in the nfl, even in linehan's system. He will only get better with Moore as our oc.

 

[beware_d-ware]

The point is that Barkley isn’t all that great down to down and he is more of a big play back.

He doesn’t run to his size. He’s a finesse player and relies on the big play to fill out his stats.

You can criticize Saquon's process however you want, but the end result was arguably better than Zeke last year.

 

[BourbonBalz]

The question asked to start this thread is the dumbest one ever asked. That is all.

 

[aria]

I no longer live in Texas but I have friends here that are fans of other teams that say Elliott in unquestionably the best back in the league. You don't have to be a homer to think Elliott is the best back in the league, but you do have to understand what the primary job of a running back is and to that Elliott has proved that by leading the league 2 out of the last 3 years and could have done it all 3 years.

Your hypothetical question has no way of proving it one way or another because Elliott doesn't run behind any other line. A little history lesson for you. Walter Payton ran behind a very good Bears line on the other hand Barry Sanders ran behind a Lions line that wasn't that great but he still managed to lead the league 4 times. So your presumption that Elliott woukldn't lead the league in rushing if running behind another line is based solely on your opinion and again can't be proven one way or another.

So you make up excuses why you don't get all bummed out when Prescott doesn't complete passes. Now I'm talking about the passes receivers drop or a defender makes a good play and knocks it down, I'm talking about the passes that Prescott just misses his receivers badly. After all his primary job is to complete passes and using your analogy of if he completed just one more of those errant throws to keep drives alive and possibly score a TD the Cowboys could have won more games.

Here's a little quiz for you since you're so big on fumbles. What starting RB with a min of 150 carries a year went the longest without losing the ball with a fumble? A back started with the St. Louis Cardinals his 1st 4 years and then his 5th season he went to the packers and on his 2nd carry there he lost the ball for his 1st time, MacArthur Lane.
.

With regard to your first paragraph, total yards is a weak stat. Something like 8 out of 10 of the past total yards leaders have also carried the ball the most so please stop using that as the determining factor of who the best back in the league is. Barkley had a better ypc so hypothetically he would have the total yards records if he had carried the ball as many times as Zeke.

Correct, it is my opinion Zeke would not lead the league in rushing if he ran behind last years Giants O line. Some O lines, yes, but not the Giants IMO.

So are you comparing a QB missing a receiver to being equivalent to a RB fumbling the ball? I’m a bit confused at what you’re getting at there.

Nice quiz, I don’t care. There’s no way you’ll ever convince me that fumbles aren’t a black eye on a RB and just because they didn’t all happen to be turnovers that means they didn’t matter.

 

[CATCH17]

You can criticize Saquon's process however you want, but the end result was arguably better than Zeke last year.

Zeke still lead the league in rushing with a Oline that is a shell of their former selves.


Saquons a good player but he’s a feast or famine guy. Zeke is a guy you can control the entire game with and he keeps coming at you for 4 quarters down after down.

 

[beware_d-ware]

Zeke still lead the league in rushing with a Oline that is a shell of their former selves.


Saquons a good player but he’s a feast or famine guy. Zeke is a guy you can control the entire game with and he keeps coming at you for 4 quarters down after down.

Saquon was second, and he got there wiith 50 fewer carries, a worse OL than Dallas, and a worse passing game than Dallas (probably equal early on in the season. If you want to call him feast or famine, consider that his numbers come because he feasts at a rate we haven't seen from any back since Chris Johnson's prime.

I don’t get it. Even just a cursory look at Saquon tells you this guy's a stud, but Cowboys fans feel so threatened that they have to tear him down at every corner because he might be better than Zeke. I still think Zeke is better than Saquon (he's put 3 years of Pro Bowl level play on the field vs 1), but I have no problem saying that Saquon is on his level, and may even prove to be better with a few years of experience.