CFZ Jason Garrett vs Mike McCarthy

[Aven8]

This isn’t even a debate.

 

[CATCH17]

I don’t care about records or stats or any of that.

Im not a huge McCarthy fan but he’s a legitimate NFL coach where it was clear a long time ago that Garrett had no business being in the NFL.

 

[Captain-Crash]

dak is garrett

 

[Texas_Pete]

I was about to start a thread titled "Happy Will McClay Day"

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

What I love with MM is that it’s an upward trajectory- every tree at the team has improved and this year looks to be setup to be better than last…that is the sign of a good coach coming in and fixing the mess of a crappy coach.

Exactly, along witht he fact that he's able to make adjustments and win with a backup QB. Garrett succeeded when things were perfect. Mike has been able to succeed when the injuries have piled up.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

So why not compare MM to Landry? I mean, if we are going to compare coaches from over a decade apart with many different player rosters on both Dallas and other teams.......so stupid.

Because a lot of the players Mike has had, Garrett also had. So it's an easier comparison. Some player crossovers include Dak, Zeke, Pollard, Cooper Rush, Tyron Smith, Zach Martin, and Maher. Plus, I'm comparing the two most recent coaches this team has had and pointing out the trajectory differences between the two.

Also, I wasn't around for the Landry days. That said, the NFL seems to have changed since then. Same goes for Jimmy. I'd love to have either.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I was about to start a thread titled "Happy Will McClay Day"

It is Will McClay Day haha.

 

[DandyDon52]

Mike is better than JG, but a lot of coaches are lol. It isnt saying much.
Mike was a good season HC in GB but he didnt do well in playoffs outside of the one SB year, and he had a young rodgers.

The one thing that stands out to me, is JG got teams with a much worse defense to the playoffs, and lost in div round.
Mike has not done any better in that regard, and last 2 years he has had a much better defense, that he didnt do anything
to create that defense.
I have to credit jones boys for hiring quinn, and drafting parsons.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Mike is better than JG, but a lot of coaches are lol. It isnt saying much.
Mike was a good season HC in GB but he didnt do well in playoffs outside of the one SB year, and he had a young rodgers.

The one thing that stands out to me, is JG got teams with a much worse defense to the playoffs, and lost in div round.
Mike has not done any better in that regard, and last 2 years he has had a much better defense, that he didnt do anything
to create that defense.
I have to credit jones boys for hiring quinn, and drafting parsons.

I'll agree that Quinn and Parsons have made a huge difference as well. Also, I'm aware that it's not saying much. However, that's just it. The fact that he's much better than JG shows the difference that a coach can make. Now imagine, if Mike were to leave, what an even better coach can do, like say Quinn. Regardless, the point of this thread is that coaching is vital in the NFL.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Since you went all scientific and everything why not compare McCarthy's first three years to Barry Switzers and tell us who the better coach is?

Because the comparison was easier between Mike and Garrett, especially with the player crossovers and coach in a similar era. Plus, the point of this thread was to show the difference coaching makes in the NFL.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Yeah, whatever happened to idgit? Did he suicide after Ginger got the boot?

Hopefully, he's still on here

 

[CATCH17]

I'll agree that Quinn and Parsons have made a huge difference as well. Also, I'm aware that it's not saying much. However, that's just it. The fact that he's much better than JG shows the difference that a coach can make. Now imagine, if Mike were to leave, what an even better coach can do, like say Quinn. Regardless, the point of this thread is that coaching is vital in the NFL.

I’m not sold on Quinn as a head coach.

If he becomes head coach what does that do to the defense?

He’s a great coordinator for sure.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I’m not sold on Quinn as a head coach.

If he becomes head coach what does that do to the defense?

He’s a great coordinator for sure.

Sure, and we will see what happens. For now, I like what Mike has done, and I think he shows what a competent coach can bring as opposed to a mediocre one.

 

[john van brocklin]

Now that we have had 3 years of Mike McCarthy, I'm going to do a head to head comparison of the first 3 years of Jason Garrett and Mike McCarthy. Then, for a bonus, I'll point something out that I've noticed about Mike.

Jason Garrett:
2011 (first full year) - 8-8 - Garrett showed some promise this season. The team really should've won the division in 2011. Unfortunately, the team collapsed and allowed the Giants to win it all.

2012 - 8-8 - this was about when things looked to be meh with Garrett. One of which was an absolute demolition we had on Monday Night against the Bears. We were also unable to stop RG3 as Washington swept us that year.

2013 - 8-8 - This season featured some heartbreaking losses against the Chargers and Broncos (this was the game where we learned what a morale victory was). We also got absolutely embarrassed against New Orleans. This was a game where it appeared that Garrett was completely outclassed. No matter what the team tried, Sean Payton was 3 steps ahead. Romo was injured in the win against Washington, and Orton would take over the next week against Philly and lose. This secured our 3rd straight 8-8 season.

Now for Mike McCarthy:
2020 6-10 - Painful year. Granted, there was a situation that year that prevented a proper offseason schedule. Additionally, we had 4 different QBs start that year. However, the defence was the worst we'd had since possibly 2013. This was McCarthy's fault as he brought in Mike Nolan, who clearly didn't work.

2021 12-4 (WC Loss) - The Cowboys sacked Nolan and replaced him with Dan Quinn and drafted Micah Parsons. It was during this season that the defence really improved. The Cowboys offense played well, and we won a game with Rush starting against the Vikings. This is an improvement season. We also saw adjustments being made during games. Ultimately, the Cowboys had a solid season, but lost to the 49ers in the WC Round.

2022 12-5 (WC Win, DR Loss) - the Cowboys finished with a similar record, but played well. Especially since we had a backup playing for 5 games who won 4 games. The team won a playoff game against the Bucs before falling to the 49ers.

I use 3 years as, just as with a QB, you sort of know what you have at HC by year 3. I think Mike has taken this team higher than Garrett did in their first 3 years. He also has been better when it comes to using a backup QB as Garrett couldn't use one. This is highlighted by the fact that both coaches had Rush, and Rush has been much better under McCarthy. This shows that coaching matters. As for what I've noticed. Under Garrett, there were games when things weren't going our way, and the team would give up. He didn't adjust well. McCarthy is the opposite. There's always seems to actually be a plan for each team as opposed to copying the same plan every game and daring the opposite team to stop us. He also adjusts, which was noticeably lacking with Garrett.

Moral of the story, coaching matters. A competent coach, as this story shows, makes a world of difference.

Cage match?

 

[charron]

well it's not that simple to me. Garrett had terrible DC's and Mike did too the 1st year. If they didn't go get Dan Q the last 2 years would not have been possible. I'll take the last 2 years of coaches cause Dan Q not Mike McCarthy.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

Neither guy is/was a great coach.

You give Garrett QBs like Farve and Rodgers he's going to win a lot also.

You give McCarthy QBs like Romo and Dak and you're going to get nothing just like Garrett.

When McCarthy is fired from Dallas probably after this season he will never be a HC again, just like Garrett.

I think that is to be determined with Mike. However, I think Mike has done more with Dak in 2 years (considering he only had Dak for 5 games his first season here) than Garrett did in his time here.

 

[USArmyVet]

Because the comparison was easier between Mike and Garrett, especially with the player crossovers and coach in a similar era. Plus, the point of this thread was to show the difference coaching makes in the NFL.

So then compare Garrett's record his last 3 years with Dallas versus MM's first 3 years with Dallas:

Garrett: 27-21 regular season 1-1 playoffs

MM: 30-20 regular season 1-2 playoffs


So while in no way defending Garrett as a viable HC, when you speak of "crossover players" it is better to compare Garrett from 2017-2019 to MM 2020-2022 because when you do you will see 3 more regular season wins for MM (remember the NFL went to 17 games starting in 2021) and the same playoff wins......so really not a huge difference between the 2 HC's in terms of record.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

well it's not that simple to me. Garrett had terrible DC's and Mike did too the 1st year. If they didn't go get Dan Q the last 2 years would not have been possible. I'll take the last 2 years of coaches cause Dan Q not Mike McCarthy.

Counterpoint, why was that? Why was it different that Mike now has Quinn, and Garrett stuck with Marinelli when it became clear that he was past his sellby date on defence? I'd suggest that Mike likely requested a better coach on defence. Surely Garrett could've asked for an upgrade over Marinelli who was DC here from 2014-2019.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

So then compare Garrett's record his last 3 years with Dallas versus MM's first 3 years with Dallas:

Garrett: 27-21 regular season 1-1 playoffs

MM: 30-20 regular season 1-2 playoffs


So while in no way defending Garrett as a viable HC, when you speak of "crossover players" it is better to compare Garrett from 2017-2019 to MM 2020-2022 because when you do you will see 3 more regular season wins for MM (remember the NFL went to 17 games starting in 2021) and the same playoff wins......so really not a huge difference between the 2 HC's in terms of record.

That's fair, but I think, at the same time, the trajectory does show that Mike is doing better, even with the extra game. Who knows where things will go next year? What is important to me, especially with this thread, is the importance of coaching. While we need the players, we also need coaching. I'm not sure Mahomes would be as legendary if he didn't have Reid coaching him. Same with Brady and Belichick. Or Aikman and Jimmy, Roger and Landry. I could go on. And that's even more critical nowadays.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

That's fair, but I think, at the same time, the trajectory does show that Mike is doing better, even with the extra game. Who knows where things will go next year? What is important to me, especially with this thread, is the importance of coaching. While we need the players, we also need coaching. I'm not sure Mahomes would be as legendary if he didn't have Reid coaching him. Same with Brady and Belichick. Or Aikman and Jimmy, Roger and Landry. I could go on. And that's even more critical nowadays.

Plus, by showing the first 3 years, it becomes easier to see a potential trajectory. In Garrett's first 3 years, things seemed stagnant. For Mike, we have seen improvement.