CFZ Jason Garrett vs Mike McCarthy

[fivetwos]

Ditka.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I don’t care about records or stats or any of that.

Im not a huge McCarthy fan but he’s a legitimate NFL coach where it was clear a long time ago that Garrett had no business being in the NFL.

Well, and that's what I'm saying. Imagine if we had a coach like Parcells for longer or if Mike was here longer. I think a lot of the issues this team had during Garrett's tenure wouldn't have festered.

 

[GMO415]

10 years (an entire decade) off Jason Garrett was catastrophic to the franchise cultural wise. That damage will take over a decade to recover from.

Jason Garrett coached a good enough philosophy. He couldn't teach and expect excellence.

 

[charron]

Counterpoint, why was that? Why was it different that Mike now has Quinn, and Garrett stuck with Marinelli when it became clear that he was past his sellby date on defence? I'd suggest that Mike likely requested a better coach on defence. Surely Garrett could've asked for an upgrade over Marinelli who was DC here from 2014-2019.

and that is a good question. The problem here is that HC don't have complete control of their assistants. Mike was forced to keep Kellen, we know that. We also know Garrett was forced to give up OC duties. We don't know if he would have been allowed to fire Marinelli. Monte was let go pretty quick, after 1 year if my failing memory is correct. eitherway they should have moved on from marinade sooner.

 

[Cowboy_svt]

mikes 2020 season he was without a qb for a large part of it, still finished 6-10 with legitimately the worst performing dallas defense ever fielded, and lets not forget how weird that season was due to the C-word.
garretts 2015 season went 3-13 without romo on the field with witten-dez-lee and our oline still being good.

Rush is 5-1 under Mike and since 2020 mike has been in back to back playoffs and the team has been competitive dang near every game. Were it not for wonder boy as the OC and Dak being a seesaw we would be having even better success.

Theres no comparison. Team is top to bottom better in every facet except same at GM, and lets not forget Romo had to basically override Garretts "playcalling" for the offense to finally do something.

 

[DandyDon52]

I'll agree that Quinn and Parsons have made a huge difference as well. Also, I'm aware that it's not saying much. However, that's just it. The fact that he's much better than JG shows the difference that a coach can make. Now imagine, if Mike were to leave, what an even better coach can do, like say Quinn. Regardless, the point of this thread is that coaching is vital in the NFL.

I agree,HC and on down the whole staff can make a big difference to help or hurt a team.

 

[RD21]

10 years (an entire decade) off Jason Garrett was catastrophic to the franchise cultural wise. That damage will take over a decade to recover from.

Jason Garrett coached a good enough philosophy. He couldn't teach and expect excellence.

Garrett was garbage, & never respected by his players. He was 85-67 as HC. That's a win % of .559 The definition of mediocrity.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

10 years (an entire decade) off Jason Garrett was catastrophic to the franchise cultural wise. That damage will take over a decade to recover from.

Jason Garrett coached a good enough philosophy. He couldn't teach and expect excellence.

Perhaps, but I think Mike and Quinn have done well expediting that recovery. I love the mentality that the team now has.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I agree,HC and on down the whole staff can make a big difference to help or hurt a team.

Exactly, and a crap/mediocre coach can set a franchise on a course of disaster for years, where as a great coach can set up a team for success for even after he's finished at that spot.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

and that is a good question. The problem here is that HC don't have complete control of their assistants. Mike was forced to keep Kellen, we know that. We also know Garrett was forced to give up OC duties. We don't know if he would have been allowed to fire Marinelli. Monte was let go pretty quick, after 1 year if my failing memory is correct. eitherway they should have moved on from marinade sooner.

I understand that part, but I'd imagine that Jerry probably would've allowed Garrett to sack Marinelli if he wanted him gone. Put it this way. If it was a decision between Garrett or Marinelli to lose their job in say, 2017, who would Jerry have chosen?

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

mikes 2020 season he was without a qb for a large part of it, still finished 6-10 with legitimately the worst performing dallas defense ever fielded, and lets not forget how weird that season was due to the C-word.
garretts 2015 season went 3-13 without romo on the field with witten-dez-lee and our oline still being good.

Rush is 5-1 under Mike and since 2020 mike has been in back to back playoffs and the team has been competitive dang near every game. Were it not for wonder boy as the OC and Dak being a seesaw we would be having even better success.

Theres no comparison. Team is top to bottom better in every facet except same at GM, and lets not forget Romo had to basically override Garretts "playcalling" for the offense to finally do something.

Fur sure, but I did have to mention 2020 as that was a coaching year. It's amazing though how much he's improved the team since taking over. Bear in mind, that's consistent with what he did in Green Bay. He frequently had the Packers at over 10 wins in most of the seasons that he coached there. So, he's actually been pretty consistent there so far as well. The players respond to him, and he, like Parcells, seems to actually have the ability to build a confident team that understands what they need to do. He seems to have changed the culture of the team to where they have a winning mentality, as opposed to playing not to lose.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Now that we have had 3 years of Mike McCarthy, I'm going to do a head to head comparison of the first 3 years of Jason Garrett and Mike McCarthy. Then, for a bonus, I'll point something out that I've noticed about Mike.

Jason Garrett:
2011 (first full year) - 8-8 - Garrett showed some promise this season. The team really should've won the division in 2011. Unfortunately, the team collapsed and allowed the Giants to win it all.

2012 - 8-8 - this was about when things looked to be meh with Garrett. One of which was an absolute demolition we had on Monday Night against the Bears. We were also unable to stop RG3 as Washington swept us that year.

2013 - 8-8 - This season featured some heartbreaking losses against the Chargers and Broncos (this was the game where we learned what a morale victory was). We also got absolutely embarrassed against New Orleans. This was a game where it appeared that Garrett was completely outclassed. No matter what the team tried, Sean Payton was 3 steps ahead. Romo was injured in the win against Washington, and Orton would take over the next week against Philly and lose. This secured our 3rd straight 8-8 season.

Now for Mike McCarthy:
2020 6-10 - Painful year. Granted, there was a situation that year that prevented a proper offseason schedule. Additionally, we had 4 different QBs start that year. However, the defence was the worst we'd had since possibly 2013. This was McCarthy's fault as he brought in Mike Nolan, who clearly didn't work.

2021 12-4 (WC Loss) - The Cowboys sacked Nolan and replaced him with Dan Quinn and drafted Micah Parsons. It was during this season that the defence really improved. The Cowboys offense played well, and we won a game with Rush starting against the Vikings. This is an improvement season. We also saw adjustments being made during games. Ultimately, the Cowboys had a solid season, but lost to the 49ers in the WC Round.

2022 12-5 (WC Win, DR Loss) - the Cowboys finished with a similar record, but played well. Especially since we had a backup playing for 5 games who won 4 games. The team won a playoff game against the Bucs before falling to the 49ers.

I use 3 years as, just as with a QB, you sort of know what you have at HC by year 3. I think Mike has taken this team higher than Garrett did in their first 3 years. He also has been better when it comes to using a backup QB as Garrett couldn't use one. This is highlighted by the fact that both coaches had Rush, and Rush has been much better under McCarthy. This shows that coaching matters. As for what I've noticed. Under Garrett, there were games when things weren't going our way, and the team would give up. He didn't adjust well. McCarthy is the opposite. There's always seems to actually be a plan for each team as opposed to copying the same plan every game and daring the opposite team to stop us. He also adjusts, which was noticeably lacking with Garrett.

Moral of the story, coaching matters. A competent coach, as this story shows, makes a world of difference.

I dont think you can really compare records first 3 years. Different teams. But what you can do is look at the teams they put together, and how they coach and run the franchise. Its not even close. Garrett sucks and MM is a REAL HC. They arent even comparable.

 

[CowboyRoy]

That makes no sense. So Barry Switzer was a great coach because he picked up where Jimmy Johnson left off? Oh the logic of some people.

Another Garrett apologist. How pathetic. LOL

Do you miss your hero?

 

[CowboyRoy]

My logic? This thread is comparing HC's records that are nearly 10 years apart with vastly different rosters.....and defending it is the illogical part.

In MM's first 3 years as HC of GB he went 27-21 while going 1-1 in the playoffs.....so what does that mean if comparing him to himself with Dallas wherein he has gone 30-20 while going 1-2 in the playoffs???? Nothing. That said so Garrett went 24-24 his first 3 seasons as HC so compared to MM's first 3 years as the GB HC with his 27-21 record then it is obvious MM is only 3 games better than Garrett as a HC, right?????

Its about who the better coach is. Garrett or MM?

Tell me oh swami guru of football, who is the better coach Garrett or MM?

This question is for dummies by the way.

 

[gtb1943]

I understand that part, but I'd imagine that Jerry probably would've allowed Garrett to sack Marinelli if he wanted him gone. Put it this way. If it was a decision between Garrett or Marinelli to lose their job in say, 2017, who would Jerry have chosen?

I don't think anyone with a brain thinks if Ginger had wanted Marinellia gone he would have been gone. Now with KM, its possible that he was forced on Ginger by Jethro; and it seems clear though there have been rumors that MM did not mind, that KM was pretty much part of the package when MM accepted the HC job.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I dont think you can really compare records first 3 years. Different teams. But what you can do is look at the teams they put together, and how they coach and run the franchise. Its not even close. Garrett sucks and MM is a REAL HC. They arent even comparable.

That's fair, but still shows the difference that a coach can make.

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

I don't think anyone with a brain thinks if Ginger had wanted Marinellia gone he would have been gone. Now with KM, its possible that he was forced on Ginger by Jethro; and it seems clear though there have been rumors that MM did not mind, that KM was pretty much part of the package when MM accepted the HC job.

I do wonder still, to an extent. I'm curious how Quinn agreed to become DC here, when the best DC that Garrett could get was Marinelli and Rob Ryan.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

The first 3 years of Garrett vs the first 3 years of MM, no comparison and to try to compare them is silly. The teams that Garrett inherited were bad. Bad players, old players, bad contracts and no cap. The first 2 years where trying to rebuild a roster with very little but draft to work with.. the 3 year, I think we could have done something, at least make the playoffs that year but so many injuires to the DL that year, it made a bad D, pathetic. In 2014, We should have gone to the at least the NFCCG if 29 could hold on to the ball and if the refs knew what a catch was.

But either way, Garrett didn't get the job done and he is gone. MM so far hasn't gotten the job done and will be gone soon enough. so I don't see why it even matters really, coaching does matter, but we just don't have a good coach and that is wha really matters.

 

[JayFord]

its nothing to compare imo

Garrett had no business being a Head Coach in the NFL and less of any business calling plays....You see the Giants didnt waste time with him as OC....The only thing Garrett was good at was motivating players to play

McCarthy is a great HC and can make adjustments and the only reason people bag on him is because hes our coach and they hate everything about their own team....Does he make some questionable 4th down decision? yes but ill take back to back 12-5 and even at 6-10 in 2020 with the 43rd ranked defense we missed the playoffs by 1 game

 

[RustyBourneHorse]

The first 3 years of Garrett vs the first 3 years of MM, no comparison and to try to compare them is silly. The teams that Garrett inherited were bad. Bad players, old players, bad contracts and no cap. The first 2 years where trying to rebuild a roster with very little but draft to work with.. the 3 year, I think we could have done something, at least make the playoffs that year but so many injuires to the DL that year, it made a bad D, pathetic. In 2014, We should have gone to the at least the NFCCG if 29 could hold on to the ball and if the refs knew what a catch was.

But either way, Garrett didn't get the job done and he is gone. MM so far hasn't gotten the job done and will be gone soon enough. so I don't see why it even matters really, coaching does matter, but we just don't have a good coach and that is wha really matters.

I think McCarthy is better than people think, and I think he's better than Garrett. My point is, the Cowboys need to make sure that the coaching is the best we can get. There's no salary cap on coaches, so, the best should be who Jerry gets.