Jason Garrett's Strengths

[Ddisco22]

rou

This is a nonsense post because it treats Garrett as having a lifetime job no matter the results. Admittedly he has gotten a little more leeway than many or maybe most coaches would have, but it isn't a never ending gig.

The other thing is there is no reason to believe Garrett doesn't care or isn't working hard or is somehow compromised by things like clapping on the sidelines. That notion just comes out of some silly need to find a personal reason to dislike him. I'll never understand that need. All anyone needs to point to in order to justify a belief that Garrett should be terminated is the lack of consistency and lack of overall success. It doesn't have to be personal, and we don't have to make up nonsense, just stick with the facts.

The fact is that he is still around because of personal ties to the team and the Jones family, as well as no other coach wants to come here and work for JJ.
I've been a boys fan for a lot of years, it's not personal with JG

 

[rkell87]

Sooooo, going out on a limb here, I am assuming you do not see many strengths?

Can't argue any of this but that last one was an either way he goes, he's getting second guessed if they lose the game. In fairness, he did make one big mistake but he did bring them back from 3 scores down. We don't know which way that game would have gone with Romo at QB because the D stunk.

No need for tree climbing I made it clear elsewhere in the thread that I see no strengths compared to a championship caliber coach. You want to know what Garrett's strengths are? He's a master manipulator of the high brow society. He's the Machiavelli of becoming and keeping a coaching job. He expertly sets up the dominoes so he's not taking the fall for his failures. He fails we fire the guy ahead of him and give him the job, he fails again and we fire the guys under him and bring in his guys, he fails again and we fire his guys but keep him. If he were half as good at coaching as he is at procuring and keeping a job he's unfit for we'd be talking about him in the same breath as the greats.

Also everything that happened in the second half is irrelevant because we lost the game before we stepped on the field. Veterans that make the playoffs for the first time talk about the speed and intensity of the game is on another level; we had a top 3 QB with playoff experience and win under his belt on the sideline for a fourth round rookie. Exactly one rookie QB has won the super bowl and he's 6'4" 250 and picked high in the draft with a top rated defense. I didn't even want to watch the game after finding out Romo wouldn't start but I had to see if they would pull Dak and let Romo lead an epic comeback that the team would ride to a super bowl win. But Garrett so nope.

 

[Dre11]

Our drafting/scouting/developing has been among the best in the league under Garrett, actually. At least most attempts to score drafts that I've seen, once adjusted for picks, have us in the top 5 or so, league wide. But this is exactly the sort of stuff we see from fans all the time, so I'm glad you pointed it out.

Here are a couple of attempt to quantify the impact of drafting and developing. They each use slightly different methodology.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriss...-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting/#6ebb0c575dcd (5th overall)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-five-year-success-by-draft-class (1st overall)

https://nypost.com/2017/04/22/studying-5-years-of-nfl-drafts-to-find-best-worst-teams-at-picking/ (3rd overall)

Good luck making a convincing argument that the 2011-13 teams were playoff teams. Go back and look at those rosters. I know it's easier to dislike a guy if you won't give him credit for overdelivering with bad teams, but those .500 teams had .500 talent.

The scheme argument I always counter by pointing out that his offenses have typically been in the top ten, if not top 5 in the league in terms of production per series, which is how you ought to look at the effectiveness of an offense. I don't understand how it can simultaneously be among the most effective and still be a laughing joke, but I'm sure this time somebody will get to the bottom of that for me.

You’re on fire...lol Been say the same thing. I know it’s no where near the same level, but I’ve been JV head HS coach and OC at the same time before being moved to Varsity as OC/Wr coach. It’s difficult to do both there so I know it’s crazy difficult to do it at the NFL level. For your offenses to be consistently in the top ten is huge.

 

[Idgit]

Drafting under Garrett has nothing to do with Garrett, our scouting and drafting has improved independent of Garrett so don't try to give him that credit. Garrett's offense has been in the top 5-10 because of Romo not Garrett so again don't give him that credit. What I will credit him with is calling an offense so badly that he got his head coach fired, then calling an offense so badly that Jerry had to appoint our Oline coach as the play caller. Then blowing our best shot at a super bowl run by letting a rookie 4th round pick lose a playoff game after a first round bye with the Cowboys best statistical QB of all time healthy on the sideline. Those .500 teams were lucky Romo was worth 4 games by himself.

That's easy to say, but completely untrue. The drafting approach changed completely when Garrett came in. He reorganized the scouting department to work more closely with position group coaches, he changed scouting staff, they promoted McClay, and they started the process we've been using under Jason of carpet-bombing position groups in the draft and in CFA to develop while backfilling with cheap vets in VFA.

The offense has been in the top 5, and in the top 10 last year, under Dak (4th in 2016, 9th in 2017). It's not just Romo. Again, that's something easy to say, but it's not true.

I'm not even going to touch the comment about Dak's playoff game, and I consider that doing you a favor.

 

[Hennessy_King]

For Garrett's Strengths, Close your eyes and tell me what you see.

 

[OmerV]

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The fact is that he is still around because of personal ties to the team and the Jones family, as well as no other coach wants to come here and work for JJ.
I've been a boys fan for a lot of years, it's not personal with JG

I specifically said he has gotten more leeway than other coaches. I merely said that doesn't mean he has a forever job or that he is somehow just coasting and not caring.

 

[Idgit]

Thanks for planting that earwig. I'll be singing that damn thing all day now.

 

[rkell87]

So in short, everything bad is his fault, and anything good is due to someone else? If that is your stance, just know that it drops your credibility immensely.

In short the things Garrett is responsible for have been bad and the things Garrett is not responsible for are better than if he were.

You act like I'm saying anything untrue to make Garrett look bad. On the contrary I'm pointing out what's blatantly obvious. He's been stripped of more and more responsibilities since becoming head coach, responsibilities he fought to keep.

I really don't care what you think my credibility is, you have exactly none with me.

 

[rkell87]

That's easy to say, but completely untrue. The drafting approach changed completely when Garrett came in. He reorganized the scouting department to work more closely with position group coaches, he changed scouting staff, they promoted McClay, and they started the process we've been using under Jason of carpet-bombing position groups in the draft and in CFA to develop while backfilling with cheap vets in VFA.

The offense has been in the top 5, and in the top 10 last year, under Dak (4th in 2016, 9th in 2017). It's not just Romo. Again, that's something easy to say, but it's not true.

I'm not even going to touch the comment about Dak's playoff game, and I consider that doing you a favor.

Romo called the offense in 16, 17 sure did look like an awesome top ten in the league offensive power house huh?

Find me the article where it says Jason Garrett is the reason we promoted mcclay. Find me the article that says Jason Garrett is the reason why the scouting department works with the coaches more closely. Show me anything that says our drafting and FA strategies were developed and implemented by Jason Garrett.

Don't do me any favors just do yourself one and don't reply.

 

[Idgit]

Romo called the offense in 16, 17 sure did look like an awesome top ten in the league offensive power house huh?

Find me the article where it says Jason Garrett is the reason we promoted mcclay. Find me the article that says Jason Garrett is the reason why the scouting department works with the coaches more closely. Show me anything that says our drafting and FA strategies were developed and implemented by Jason Garrett.

Don't do me any favors just do yourself one and don't reply.

I've got no interest in disabusing whatever it is you choose to believe about who was calling the offense the last two years, or in how the team's drafting has changed in the interval between Wade Phillips and Jason Garrett. It's enough to point to what they've done and to recognize what's gone on. If you'd rather concoct alternate explanations with zero evidence to support them, that's perfectly ok with me.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

From 1-7 to a killed player, suspended players with drugs and domestic violence , players swatting clipboards from coaches, slapping their mother around, walking off the field, injured QB, QB controversy , etc and all of the dysfunction and distractions from Jerry this team must endure Garrett somehow keeps this team fairly focused ,somewhat respectable and relative bringing some normalcy to a laughable franchise this era.

That’s probably his greatest asset attempting to hold the team together.

How ya doin G - long time no see -

That 1-7 doesn't really tell the story tho - they had a franchise QB and had just won the division the year before, its not like they were devoid of talent, they just gave up on ol Uncle Wade.
Garrett came in and you know the old saying..."a new broom sweeps clean" plus the players just had their HC fired and humiliated on national TV - I would think that some players still had some pride left and upped their game a bit.

 

[cern]

This is gonna be a short thread.

did you have a flash back to your glory days at dc.com?

 

[Bullflop]

Other than getting along with Jerry, JG serves as a constant reminder for the players to give their best. He preaches well. Otherwise, his contributions are modest. He doesn't respond well to making game time adjustments, nor is he creative but the players like him anyway because he's a "nice guy."

 

[cern]

game clock management has been suspect at times. seems unable to adjust at halftime. never seemed to be able to handle dez and his sideline antics. if he's ok with the team not having a run stopping tackle, i'd say that thinking is flawed. the hc does have control over the dc. 2015 was a disgrace of a season without tony as qb. showed no ability to come up with anything on the offensive side of the ball. same for last season. so in summation, I honestly just don't see enough good about the guy to even mention it.

 

[ESisback]

In short the things Garrett is responsible for have been bad and the things Garrett is not responsible for are better than if he were.

You act like I'm saying anything untrue to make Garrett look bad. On the contrary I'm pointing out what's blatantly obvious. He's been stripped of more and more responsibilities since becoming head coach, responsibilities he fought to keep.

I really don't care what you think my credibility is, you have exactly none with me.

At least we're on equal footing as far as credibility goes...

 

[BigStar]

Yeah, I'm aware of who was on the teams, I mean, beyond those two guys. Which is why, when you look at the rest of the roster, it ought to be pretty obvious that only actual homers thought they were shoe-ins for the post season. They had .500 talent, and got .500 results.

As a result of losing the final game three years in a row we didn't make the playoffs. We were literally going to the playoffs if we win these games. Since we didn't win any of the "win or go home games"....the narrative changes that we were lucky to even get to that point of being a .500 team? There's something about eating cake here or something.

 

[cern]

For Garrett's Strengths, Close your eyes and tell me what you see.

lol. good one.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I’m one of his staunchest defenders, and I’m not sure he’s capable of bringing championships back to Dallas (though I think he’s had a couple teams close to good enough already), but the certainty he’s a terrible coach based on reasons almost completely unrelated to his actual job baffles me.

There’s safety in numbers, and it’s the natural reaction of all fans to go after coaches and QBs when somethings not working, though. The real issues in Dallas are harder to fix, I’m afraid.

I'm with you, homie. The thing that gets me is that finding an upgrade for Garrett is not as easy as people like to pretend.

Is he perfect, no, but the likely replacements are no better. When Payton looked like he might become available I was on board for hiring him.

Adam Gase was all the rage 2 years ago. He's 16-16 and a playoff loss after 2 seasons.

Replacing him for the sake of replacing him is a nonstarter for me.

 

[Idgit]

As a result of losing the final game three years in a row we didn't make the playoffs. We were literally going to the playoffs if we win these games. Since we didn't; well we were NEVER supposed to?

Each of them, IIRC, were 16 game seasons rather than 1 game seasons. I don't buy into the commonly-accepted idea here that we lost those week 17 games because of Jason Garrett in the first place, but we're not even in that position if we didn't do a decent job getting .500 talent into playoff position for week 17 in the first place.

(And note, I didn't say we weren't supposed to qualify for the playoffs. I said the teams in question weren't very good to start with. They were .500 teams).

 

[Big_D]

folding.. he's great at it. Having his team well prepared to clean out their lockers!