Jason Garrett's Strengths

[Idgit]

Not opinion, facts that can and were just refuted by you at least partially. There's also at least one interview with Romo where he confirmed that he was in Daks ear calling plays as well. Garrett had play calling duties stripped and handed to Callahan. Fact. When that happened we went from 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 to 12-4. Fact. Garrett pushed for linehan to be brought in to be OC. Fact. Stripping OC from Callahan was the key factor in his departure. Fact. We went 4-12 when that happened. Fact. Romo preformed the most important functions of an offensive coordinator in 16. Fact. Without Romo preforming those functions linehan went 9-7 that somehow managed to be worse than going 8-8. Fact.

I say that there isn't a reasonable argument that Jason Garrett has had success in Dallas and that our 2 winning seasons in the past 7 years were in spite of Garrett and not in any way because of him.

You realize that rattling off a string of facts that may or may not be actually relevant to the conversation *now* is not the same thing as actually providing them earlier, right?

I'm down for the Romo link if you have it. Not that it shocks me or I'd expect Romo to not be involved with Dak's rookie season. It doesn't mean the coaches didn't also play a significant role.

I think we all know about the handing around of the play calling duties and what the team's record was. I'm not sure what point you're making with all of those references, but they don't necessarily support your argument. Or, if they do, I'm missing your point badly. I'm also missing how 9-7 is some aged to be worse than 8-8 and how that's a fact.

In any event, I'm perfectly ok with disagreeing with you about Jason Garrett. I don't see much hope for a meeting of the minds or a middle ground anywhere between us, anyway.

 

[Idgit]

Arguably the last 3 losses to GB, including 2 playoff losses. Kind of a big deal. Even last year's regular season loss was a huge blow to our playoff chances.

And situation management? Atlanta. Come on. That wasn't just a disaster for that game, that affected Dak for the rest of the year.

Anything's arguable. But I don't buy those arguments.

Atlanta was a disaster, but it's also a game where the offensive adjustments are mischaracterized. They did actually try to make multiple adjustments in that game. It just didn't work. And then the next week, when they did make the adjustment everybody wanted and give the LT help on just about every passing play....things didn't work out any better. Which leads me to believe maybe the issue wasn't the adjustments--or lack thereof--in the first place.

 

[okstateCowboy]

I have not read through this whole thing but one positive about JG is that his players respect him and play hard for him. I have never felt the team gave up or quit on him. He is far from a football genius but he is a great leader in some adverse situations.

 

[buybuydandavis]

Not opinion, facts that can and were just refuted by you at least partially. There's also at least one interview with Romo where he confirmed that he was in Daks ear calling plays as well. Garrett had play calling duties stripped and handed to Callahan. Fact. When that happened we went from 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 to 12-4. Fact. Garrett pushed for linehan to be brought in to be OC. Fact. Stripping OC from Callahan was the key factor in his departure. Fact. We went 4-12 when that happened. Fact. Romo preformed the most important functions of an offensive coordinator in 16. Fact. Without Romo preforming those functions linehan went 9-7 that somehow managed to be worse than going 8-8. Fact.

I say that there isn't a reasonable argument that Jason Garrett has had success in Dallas and that our 2 winning seasons in the past 7 years were in spite of Garrett and not in any way because of him.

I've wondered about exactly that last section in bold. Was Romo still installing the plays during the week in 2016? Do you have a reference for that?
Was he in Dak's ear (literally in his helmet comm) during games in 2016?

For your litany of facts, add Sparano was kept on as Assistant Head Coach in 2007. Offense declined in 2008 after he left.

 

[Diehardblues]

How ya doin G - long time no see -

That 1-7 doesn't really tell the story tho - they had a franchise QB and had just won the division the year before, its not like they were devoid of talent, they just gave up on ol Uncle Wade.
Garrett came in and you know the old saying..."a new broom sweeps clean" plus the players just had their HC fired and humiliated on national TV - I would think that some players still had some pride left and upped their game a bit.

Hey NYC.. good to see you made the trip over.

You failed to mention Garrett finished the season without Romo going 5-3.

Giving up on Wade is what cost him his job. Not giving up on Garrett is what has saved him his job and what my narrative is based on.

 

[TheDude]

He’s intelligent, organized, consistent, and able to dampen the circus atmosphere Jerry insists on cultivating. He develops players well. He keeps the team focused, and they play hard.

Most of what he does poorly is massively exaggerated by upset fans. They hated his play calling, though his offenses were generally in the top ten in the league in terms of production/series. They are his press conferences, though fail to understand he does it for a very good reason. They hate his clapping...never understood why that was such an issue. Really, what they’re unhappy about is the team not going on a playoff run, and when they don’t like that result, the easiest person to blame is the coach. Personally, I don’t think he’s miss d the playoffs with a playoff caliber team until last season.

I do appreciate that this was an earnest reply, but what intelligence does he bring that is a competitive advantage? Said another way, is he more intelligent than 75% of the league, 50%? Is he smarter than Wade, Parcells?
Also, How and what players are developing? Hitchens? Where is his coaching tree?

At a minimum, he got promoted way too fast - primarily because of his dad's relationship with Jerry. At worst, he hides his failings through politicking.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

Hey NYC.. good to see you made the trip over.

You failed to mention Garrett finished the season without Romo going 5-3.

Giving up on Wade is what cost him his job. Not giving up on Garrett is what has saved him his job and what my narrative is based on.

Yes he did go 5-3 with Kitnna I believe but it wasn't really a 1-7 team if you know what I'm saying.

Now who are you talking about..."Giving up on Wade is what cost him his job."

 

[TheDude]

I think the success rate following iced kicks is still higher than it is on initial kicks, isn’t it? It used to be, anyway.

But that’s beside the point. If your ST coach is in your ear frantically asking for a TO in that situation, of course you call it. Who knows what the issue could have been.

That icing the kicker lore was the incorrect narrative for how he blew that game.....not too dissimilar the ravens in 2012.

 

[Big_D]

Found a list
http://www.dallascowboysuniverse.co...-Jason-Garrett-embarrassing-records-and-stats

That is a serious list. Goes on and on and yet people still defend him and he's still the HC?????? Just sad. Jerry screwed the Cowboys with this hire.

 

[Diehardblues]

Yes he did go 5-3 with Kitnna I believe but it wasn't really a 1-7 team if you know what I'm saying.

Now who are you talking about..."Giving up on Wade is what cost him his job."

That’s your perception it wasn’t a 1-7 team.

We are what our record is. It was a playoff team the previous year which many of us argued had many holes and was slipping. The team had been deflating under Wades tenure with 4 horrid drafts becoming a 6-10 team.

Wade is only HC to ever have a losing record with Romo starting, going 1-5. I have to believe the team must have slipped more than we thought to have such a record with Romo being we went 8-8 with some of the worse defenses in Cowboy history the next 3 years.

 

[Diehardblues]

That is a serious list. Goes on and on and yet people still defend him and he's still the HC?????? Just sad. Jerry screwed the Cowboys with this hire.

It might be better said “ the Cowboys are screwed with Jerry”.

 

[Donut]

He drops F bombs and yells at people behind closed doors. And plays the Tom Landry role in public view. I kinda like it.

 

[Idgit]

That icing the kicker lore was the incorrect narrative for how he blew that game.....not too dissimilar the ravens in 2012.

He did actually blow that game. That AZ game, and the GB game where all the Callahan bad blood came out where the two that I personally think of when I think of coaching costing us games.

 

[rkell87]

You realize that rattling off a string of facts that may or may not be actually relevant to the conversation *now* is not the same thing as actually providing them earlier, right?

I'm down for the Romo link if you have it. Not that it shocks me or I'd expect Romo to not be involved with Dak's rookie season. It doesn't mean the coaches didn't also play a significant role.

I think we all know about the handing around of the play calling duties and what the team's record was. I'm not sure what point you're making with all of those references, but they don't necessarily support your argument. Or, if they do, I'm missing your point badly. I'm also missing how 9-7 is some aged to be worse than 8-8 and how that's a fact.

In any event, I'm perfectly ok with disagreeing with you about Jason Garrett. I don't see much hope for a meeting of the minds or a middle ground anywhere between us, anyway.

You can correct me if I'm wrong but I've brought up all of those things I rattled off elsewhere in the thread.

I'll google that Romo link when you google Garrett's involvement in all facets draft as I asked for earlier.

I guess you did miss the point or choose not to see it because that would mean facing the reality of Jason Garrett. Our A team beat the eagles B team because they let us beat them in a meaningless game which directly affected our draft position negatively and simultaneously helped our division rival who won the super bowl. Winning that game in the way we did was objectively worse that losing that game out right to their B team.

In regards to your final paragraph we are in agreement.

 

[Big_D]

It might be better said “ the Cowboys are screwed with Jerry”.

That much is true, he has a very long list of poor decisions. Garrett is one of them.

 

[The Cleaner]

Jason Garrett gets a lot of hate on this forum, but he does have strengths.
1. He helps to make up for Jerry's biggest weakness, which is that Jerry does not have a plan, he is purely opportunistic. The Cowboys now have an excellent drafting process, which has lead to drafting good players, and this was not the case during the Wade Phillips era. Garrett has worked well with the scouting department, and I give him some of the credit for the recent drafting success.
2. He has an overall vision for the team which he sticks to, and he doesn't get too high or low during the season. All of the Garrett teams have played hard, they have never given up on their coach, and when everything has gone right during the season, the team has been able to fulfill the Garrett vision, and there have been some high win regular seasons. There are coaches in the NFL who will never go 12-4 or 13-3 in the regular season.
3. He handles the media well, and never makes himself the story.

The reason people do not like Garrett, in my opinion, is that he is not good at making the specific decisions and adjustments during the season that the top coaches do. He is bad at situational football, and at handling specific situations that deviate from his vision of how the team should be. So when things don't go right during the season, he doesn't make the adjustments that would lead to more wins, he sticks to his general plan. People know more about these decisions than they do about coaching a pro team, and so they don't like him. For example, any reasonably knowledgeable fan knows that Byron Bell needs help at LT, and when the coaching staff does not give him help, it is easy to understand the resulting failure as a product of a bad coaching decision.

 

[Idgit]

I do appreciate that this was an earnest reply, but what intelligence does he bring that is a competitive advantage? Said another way, is he more intelligent than 75% of the league, 50%? Is he smarter than Wade, Parcells?
Also, How and what players are developing? Hitchens? Where is his coaching tree?

At a minimum, he got promoted way too fast - primarily because of his dad's relationship with Jerry. At worst, he hides his failings through politicking.

Thanks. I'm not sure how to answer your question re: how smart he is relative to the rest of the league. His strengths are more in drafting and developing and in getting the team prepared (ie, things where his fanatical methodology and consistency pay off) and in limiting the crazy that follows the Cowboys around and makes this place a circus. I'm a fan of his, and I don't think he's strong on game days. He's adequate. He's conservative, but he's got his moments when he pulls out the stops to pummel teams into submission, and the team really responds to it when he does finally bring that out.

As far as the talent developing, the links I gave above all went to sites with different methodologies for evaluating how teams draft. Most of them look at some combination of records, picks, snaps, and probowls/awards for draft picks. But it stands to reason, if you win more often than ~75% of teams win, and you use free agency a lot less than other teams do, that you're probably drafting and developing your own players better than most.

 

[Diehardblues]

That much is true, he has a very long list of poor decisions. Garrett is one of them.

How would you rank Jerry’s poor coaching decisions .

Is Garrett his worst coaching decision ?

 

[Big_D]

How would you rank Jerry’s poor coaching decisions .

Garrett
Wade
Campo
Gailey
Switzer

Length of employment puts Garrett in the top spot. But him and Wade should've never been hired.

 

[Aviano90]

He is really great at repetitive speech:

"I watched your demeanor the whole game. It was locked in. It was locked in. They had success, we kept coming. We had success, we kept coming. That's what it takes in this league, that's what it takes".