Jaylon Smith and Randy Gregory

[CapnCook]

Say it with me: "accrued seasons".

When 2nd round gambles are not available to contribute immediately, they likely don't get an accrued season their rookie year toward the 4 they need to be free agents.

I think guys who miss their rookie season for injury are almost ideal. You get to teach them up and train them up at the NFL level for a year before they start accruing a season toward free agency.

Both Jaylon and Gregory have only 1 accrued season each.

Forgot about that aspect. Good point. The team is still missing a player who should be a contributor, but fair enough, despite the unbecoming condescension.

With that, they probably should have left Jaylon healing on IR last year, no?

 

[charron]

Not for a while. I distinctly remember him being bad for a few years. He made Austin Davis look like a pro bowler up until the game ending interception in 2014. The Rams offensive gameplan seemed to literally be find him and throw his way and they put up 31. He did eventually get better but he lost his starting job at one point. I recall him getting angry with the team even and no one was sympathetic to him because he played so poorly. But he definitely has gotten better as he's stayed healthier.

To me his biggest issue was health. He always flashed good play a few games then pull a hMmy or whatever

 

[Techsass]

I seem to remember a lot of "Combine Wonder" type claims about Mo. Didn't he do an insane broad jump? He really came into his own once he started taking the job seriously & actually worked on beefing up during the off season. Too bad he couldn't stay on the field.

I love Zeke & Jaylon, but at the time I was all in on Ramsey & Jack. The FO made their choices & I can live with them. Jaylon still has a question mark, but both picks are impact players.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

My recollection on KSK for MO as well.

I didn't see Mo as a top 10 pick at all. Entirely lacked the measurables. And I'm not impressed with a guy on a great defense getting INTs in college. Earliest in the 20s. But all the supposed professionals were all hepped up on Mo, so I shrugged and figured the pros must know what they're doing. I don't do that so much anymore.

I think the herd just patterned matched Mo to Patrick Peterson the year before. Top CB, same team, the following year. Must be the same, right?

I can tell you with all surety I didn’t like the move. Ou defense/team was more than just “one player away.” We needed an influx of talent and it seemed like an impulse move by Jerry & Co.

If you remember, Jerry actually stated in the post draft presser who the Cowboys likely would have taken with those two picks had they not traded up....Michael Brockers and Bobby Wagner.

If you remember after that came out all the heeeehawing front homers were like “Uh, who??? I’d much rather have the best CB in the draft than some slow DT/DE and a random LB from Utah!!!”

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

I seem to remember a lot of "Combine Wonder" type claims about Mo. Didn't he do an insane broad jump? He really came into his own once he started taking the job seriously & actually worked on beefing up during the off season. Too bad he couldn't stay on the field.

I love Zeke & Jaylon, but at the time I was all in on Ramsey & Jack. The FO made their choices & I can live with them. Jaylon still has a question mark, but both picks are impact players.

That was Byron Jones

 

[Haimerej]

To me his biggest issue was health. He always flashed good play a few games then pull a hMmy or whatever

Definitely played a role but he took some time getting up to speed. Probably asking him to play too much zone didn't help either.

 

[kskboys]

He was the best corner we had when healthy. He's done a great job in NY as well.

No, he wasn't. Scandrick was through 2014. In 15 they all sucked. Carr was prolly the best out of default. 16? IDK, prolly Carr.

 

[kskboys]

My recollection on KSK for MO as well.

I didn't see Mo as a top 10 pick at all. Entirely lacked the measurables. And I'm not impressed with a guy on a great defense getting INTs in college. Earliest in the 20s. But all the supposed professionals were all hepped up on Mo, so I shrugged and figured the pros must know what they're doing. I don't do that so much anymore.

I think the herd just patterned matched Mo to Patrick Peterson the year before. Top CB, same team, the following year. Must be the same, right?

Same thinking as you. He simply wasn't ultra quick or ultra fast. I couldn't for the life of me comprehend why he was so well regarded.

And then our resident LSU fan, Boutteman, was against the pick in a big way.

Mo was the hoopla pick no doubt. What I fault this org for was not doing better homework. Mo quite simply did not have the measurables to be that good. I'm well aware that measurables are not everything, but as w/ a QB's arm strength, there is a point where the player has to have a certain amount of physical ability.

Take away the scouts' gushing, and Mo's scouting report read like a 3rd round pick.

 

[Beaker42]

Mo was always good when healthy.

I’ve posted it before - guess who one of the guys taken after Morris was? We faced him last week?


That’s right - Luke Kuechly.

 

[OmerV]

Why don’t you believe him? Not everyone was on board with the team moving up to take Mo. I wasn’t one of them, because I didn’t mind the move. @kskboys was one who was always against the move. Do you believe he used hindsight too?

I do believe he wasn’t on board with it. What I don’t buy is that his belief or the beliefs of a certain group of fans on this website is the barometer, and that because he/they disagreed with the move that means it was a stupid choice. There are fans on one side or the other with almost every pick, so which side gets to declare what’s stupid and what’s not, and why can’t it simply be that one group prefers a different choice without having to declare the other choice stupid? It actually is possible for there to be more than one reasonable choice. In the case of Claiborne, he was considered the best DB in that draft, so even if there was a better choice, it’s still not unreasonable that a team desperately needing a top CB would go after the top CB in the draft.

 

[kskboys]

I do believe he wasn’t on board with it. What I don’t buy is that his belief or the beliefs of a certain group of fans on this website is the barometer, and that because he/they disagreed with the move that means it was a stupid choice. There are fans on one side or the other with almost every pick, so which side gets to declare what’s stupid and what’s not, and why can’t it simply be that one group prefers a different choice without having to declare the other choice stupid? It actually is possible for there to be more than one reasonable choice. In the case of Claiborne, he was considered the best DB in that draft, so even if there was a better choice, it’s still not unreasonable that a team desperately needing a top CB would go after the top CB in the draft.

I do agree w/ what you're saying. And I get sick of those hindsight posts myself.

If someone is going to call a draft choice a mistake, they should provide the reasons they thought so before that player was drafted.

Bobby Carpenter, for instance as a good draft choice. No, he didn't work out, but that doesn't make him a bad draft choice.

The biggest mistake in taking Mo was the fact that we needed more than a CB, and the 2012 draft was very deep at the DT position, and our need was great there. The mistake was made due to poor evaluations of players on the roster and a failure to read and comprehend measurables.

 

[Techsass]

That was Byron Jones

Oh my. Ya know what's funny is that I like Byron. Even as a safety I've stuck up for him.

 

[HellCrowe]

This isn’t the week to be complaining about the defense. You can be critical of certain plays but damn.. we already have so much on our plate as Dallas Cowboys fans. Ranting about everything doesn’t do anyone any good.

 

[Number1]

These two and Morris Claiborne are the main reason our defense is just above average and not very good. Not to mention better picks in those 3 spots and maybe we win in 2014 and 2016 against A-Rod. Thanks a lot for being such a gambler, Jerry. I currently have doubts Smith and Gregory are ever going to become anything in the NFL.

I ain't worried about Jaylon, Randy is Randy

JJ's luck may be turning ... keep playing the same roulette number and sooner or later it hits, keep on playing and sooner or later a winning streak

maybe he's due

 

[tyke1doe]

I still think Jaylon was taken too high. I think he could have been taken in the fourth or fifth.
I can see why teams passed on Gregory.
We need to stop gambling on questionable players whether due to drugs, violence or behavior, especially in the high rounds.
They invariably come back to bite you. ​

 

[buybuydandavis]

With that, they probably should have left Jaylon healing on IR last year, no?

It's an obvious scam to IR players who can in fact play. I assume both the league and the player's union have grounds to sanction the team.

Even last year, there was stink from fans, and Rico, for not taking him off of IR, and he was clearly significantly injured at one point. But I don't see that they're under an obligation to take any particular player *off* IR, when they can only take 2 off IR each year.

To just put Jaylon on IR for the season when we had him running around all during camp doesn't pass the smell test. I assume there are limits to using IR, and you need an actual injury keeping a player off the field to put them on IR in the first place.

Barring receiver injuries, Noah Brown probably gets Rico'ed this year. He'll get healthy but they won't take him off IR. His injury let us keep his rights this year without using a roster spot. In his case, it probably helps him too, as he was on the bubble, and it keeps us invested in him. Bad news for bubble players to become league bottom of the roster churn. Better to stay in a system, with management who has something on the line in proving *themselves* right in taking you in the first place.

 

[Clove]

These are the draft picks fans covet so much over a big time pro bowl safety... Oh no, we have to keep our picks.
Well there goes your second rounders not lighting up the field.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I love how no one calls D-Law a "wasted second round gamble" any more...

Also, the thing with Mo is he's got talent. Was he overrated coming out of college - probably. Did the injuries hurt him - absolutely. Was he not all that bright or mentally tough either - absolutely. But he's not a bum, there's some ability there

He had a nice pick last week, showing off some athleticism and ball skills that he rarely displayed in Dallas.

 

[buybuydandavis]

I can tell you with all surety I didn’t like the move. Ou defense/team was more than just “one player away.” We needed an influx of talent and it seemed like an impulse move by Jerry & Co.

If you remember, Jerry actually stated in the post draft presser who the Cowboys likely would have taken with those two picks had they not traded up....Michael Brockers and Bobby Wagner.

I believe you.

Even without regard to Mo, I don't like taking a CB that high. Not where I want to put draft resources.

But I think it was a "let Ryan buy his groceries and prove himself" move. Ryan needed press man corners for his defense, so we got the best available in free agency in Carr, and then when Mo dropped to where he became a possibility, Ryan wanted him as well. I think they got a few points discount on the trade in draft pick value, so everyone on staff seemed like they were getting a win.

I hadn't heard about the Brockers/Wagner comment. That's too much gum flapping from Jerry. Hard for talk of the "woulda coulda taken these guys" to ever be a win. Fans are mad if the alternates are better, and you look like a dope for wanting guys who are worse.

 

[kskboys]

These are the draft picks fans covet so much over a big time pro bowl safety... Oh no, we have to keep our picks.
Well there goes your second rounders not lighting up the field.

That's actually not the story. Most that I saw didn't want to make the trade because of Earl's age, his pay, and the fact that we are not one player away.