Jerry improving as a GM?

[visionary]

I think the truth really does stand somewhere in the middle of these two arguments. Yes Jerry makes the final decision and needs to be held responsible for that, but he is also heavily influenced by his scouting staff which weigh into those final decisions. The blame cannot simply be put on one person, there are several people responsible for these decisions

the problem is that jerry has no basis to be making that decision

that decision should be made by a person who has been promoted up the chain of command specifically because he has proven that he is great at making those sorts of decisions i.e. a real GM

a GM should have a track record of success in making personnel decisions (at lower levels) and should be accountable for the outcomes of those decisions

jerry is neither

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Read what I wrote again. He does the job you guys think someone else is supposed to do because of a title. Decisions are not one man's.

You wrote "personnel decisions fall under Ciskowski's umbrella". Ciskowski's umbrella covers the scouting department, so that's patently false. The scouting department does not make personnel decisions, not for the Cowboys and not for any team in the league. That's why Ciskowski tried to get the Indy job. That's also why Tom Gamble, who is the Tom Ciskowski of the 49ers, is interviewing for GM jobs.

Ciskowski's umbrella covers scouting, which is exactly what he described in the video.

 

[Hostile]

You wrote "personnel decisions fall under Ciskowski's umbrella". Ciskowski's umbrella covers the scouting department, so that's patently false. The scouting department does not make personnel decisions, not for the Cowboys and not for any team in the league. That's why Ciskowski tried to get the Indy job. That's also why Tom Gamble, who is the Tom Ciskowski of the 49ers, is interviewing for GM jobs.

Ciskowski's umbrella covers scouting, which is exactly what he described in the video.

Fair enough, it was a poor choice of words. Now can you admit you learned anything?

 

[Irving Cowboy]

I have a question... why didn't anyone here who claims to have an "inside source" at VR know that Skip would be kicking rocks yesterday afternoon? Seems to me that would be an easy one to put out here.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Fair enough, it was a poor choice of words. Now can you admit you learned anything?

I certainly learned from that video. It was a good watch. It doesn't, however, change anything about my views on how this organization is run. Ciskowski leads our scouting department. He certainly brings suggestions and probably says, "Jerry I think we should draft this guy..." but Ciskowski can bring Jerry all the bullets in the world, ultimately Jerry is pulling the trigger to fire that gun.

 

[Hostile]

I certainly learned from that video. It was a good watch. It doesn't, however, change anything about my views on how this organization is run. Ciskowski leads our scouting department. He certainly brings suggestions and probably says, "Jerry I think we should draft this guy..." but Ciskowski can bring Jerry all the bullets in the world, ultimately Jerry is pulling the trigger to fire that gun.

Of course not. He only works for the team so he couldn't possibly know more than you.

 

[Hostile]

I have a question... why didn't anyone here who claims to have an "inside source" at VR know that Skip would be kicking rocks yesterday afternoon? Seems to me that would be an easy one to put out here.

Nor did any of the media who have access to Jerry, Stephen, Coaches, scouts, trainers, and players.

Not hard to grasp the team made a decision and moved on it. Well, not for most.

~shower~

 

[DOUBLE WING]

Of course not. He only works for the team so he couldn't possibly know more than you.

Ciskowski said nothing about making personnel decisions in that video (why? because he doesn't have that power). If I'm wrong, please provide the quote that proves otherwise.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

“We are not structured that way,” Jones said, via the Dallas Morning News. “We didn’t structure it that way with my ownership. There’s no way that I would be involved here and not be the final decision-maker on something as important as players, and that is a key area.

Jerry Jones says he's the decision maker.

Hostile says Jerry has little to do with personnel acquisitions and that the decision making is under Ciskowski's umbrella.

Hos, is our dear owner a liar? Do you know more about how the Cowboys are run than the man who owns the team?

 

[Hostile]

Ciskowski said nothing about making personnel decisions in that video (why? because he doesn't have that power). If I'm wrong, please provide the quote that proves otherwise.

I already agreed the use of the word "decisions" instead of analysis was a poor choice on my part. You can continue to ignore that I suppose, but it has little to do with what I originally claimed in the thread that the video proved.

I said Jerry had little to with the improvement of the secondary beyond the signing of checks. That was, is, and has always been the point, and it will be the point no matter how deep into the sand you stick your head. Look at the thread title if you doubt this. It is about Jerry improving because he did this.

No he didn't.

He didn't do any analysis. He didn't do any scouting. He didn't interview anyone.

He didn't override the people who did that groundwork. <--Jerry's "final decision."

 

[Hostile]

Jerry Jones says he's the decision maker.

Hostile says Jerry has little to do with personnel acquisitions and that the decision making is under Ciskowski's umbrella.

Hos, is our dear owner a liar? Do you know more about how the Cowboys are run than the man who owns the team?

No, I didn't. But go ahead and pretend I did.

 

[junk]

I already agreed the use of the word "decisions" instead of analysis was a poor choice on my part. You can continue to ignore that I suppose, but it has little to do with what I originally claimed in the thread that the video proved.

I said Jerry had little to with the improvement of the secondary beyond the signing of checks. That was, is, and has always been the point, and it will be the point no matter how deep into the sand you stick your head. Look at the thread title if you doubt this. It is about Jerry improving because he did this.

No he didn't.

He didn't do any analysis. He didn't do any scouting. He didn't interview anyone. He didn't override the people who did that groundwork.

Who set the direction that the team would invest the bulk of their offseason resources in the secondary as opposed to OL, DL or S?

 

[visionary]

Jerry Jones says he's the decision maker.

Hostile says Jerry has little to do with personnel acquisitions and that the decision making is under Ciskowski's umbrella.

Hos, is our dear owner a liar? Do you know more about how the Cowboys are run than the man who owns the team?

:laugh2:

wait... i thought they make group decisions and jerry was just the "tie-breaker"

i can just picture jerry, stephen, jason, rob ryan, and ciskowski sitting around a table drawing lots

majority wins!!!

no?

 

[DOUBLE WING]

No, I didn't. But go ahead and pretend I did.

To say that Jerry had little to do with improving the secondary is saying that he has little to do with personnel acquisitions. After all, Carr and Claiborne are personnel and Jerry is the one who acquired them.

You say Jerry had little to do with that. Jerry says "I'm the final decision maker on players."

Who is wrong? Hostile or Jerry Jones?

 

[Hostile]

Who set the direction that the team would invest the bulk of their offseason resources in the secondary as opposed to OL, DL or S?

Jason Garrett, Tom Ciskowski, and Jerry Jones with a lot of input by Stephen Jones. I have answered this for you several dozen times. Sooner or later I pray you'll get it. Watch the Mike Fisher interview and what he says about Jason's involvement in personnel.

I thought Safety was in the secondary. I had no idea they were opposed to each other. Learn something new every day.

 

[DOUBLE WING]

I already agreed the use of the word "decisions" instead of analysis was a poor choice on my part. You can continue to ignore that I suppose, but it has little to do with what I originally claimed in the thread that the video proved.

I said Jerry had little to with the improvement of the secondary beyond the signing of checks. That was, is, and has always been the point, and it will be the point no matter how deep into the sand you stick your head. Look at the thread title if you doubt this. It is about Jerry improving because he did this.

But decisions is what this is all about. What you're describing is what every organization in the NFL does. There's a GM and a scouting department. The scouting department reports to the GM. That video is irrelevant. All it talks about is the draft. So Ciskowski's scouting department says: "Jerry, we think Claiborne is the best player in the draft". That's all they can do. Ultimately, Jerry decides whether or not he wants to pull the trigger on trading up.

He didn't do any analysis. He didn't do any scouting. He didn't interview anyone.

And you know this for a fact?

Because anyone who follows the team knows that Jerry is regularly (Except for the Parcells years) in team meetings, film sessions, etc. He talks about that often on his weekly radio show.

But once again, I guess you know more about how the team is run than its owner.

 

[Hostile]

To say that Jerry had little to do with improving the secondary is saying that he has little to do with personnel acquisitions. After all, Carr and Claiborne are personnel and Jerry is the one who acquired them.

You say Jerry had little to do with that. Jerry says "I'm the final decision maker on players."

Who is wrong? Hostile or Jerry Jones?

This is pure semantics and isn't worth my time or yours. Who did the work to determine whether to acquire Carr and Caliborne? We're talking about work here right? If I work for you and I tell you we need to switch from Ford Ranger's to Toyota trucks because they have a better warranty and lower insurance does that mean you researched the warranty and insureance? You have the final decisions.

You guys say I defend Jerry to the death, but here I am telling you he is barely involved and that upsets you too. It really gets old.

 

[Hostile]

But decisions is what this is all about. What you're describing is what every organization in the NFL does. There's a GM and a scouting department. The scouting department reports to the GM. That video is irrelevant. All it talks about is the draft. So Ciskowski's scouting department says: "Jerry, we think Claiborne is the best player in the draft". That's all they can do. Ultimately, Jerry decides whether or not he wants to pull the trigger on trading up.




And you know this for a fact?

Because anyone who follows the team knows that Jerry is regularly (Except for the Parcells years) in team meetings, film sessions, etc. He talks about that often on his weekly radio show.

But once again, I guess you know more about how the team is run than its owner.

Yes, I do.

Unlike some, I don't mind his involvement, and I do think he is a football guy who knows more about the game than most posters here. But I am not going to pretend he's some super scout. Not for you or anyone else.

He isn't.

By the way, on Claiborne, it should be absolutely clear that they had a full day to determine whether they would take the deal or not and what they would pay. It was Stephen on the phone. Not Jerry.

 

[junk]

Jason Garrett, Tom Ciskowski, and Jerry Jones with a lot of input by Stephen Jones. I have answered this for you several dozen times. Sooner or later I pray you'll get it. Watch the Mike Fisher interview and what he says about Jason's involvement in personnel.

:laugh2: And maybe someday you'll understand why the way Jerry runs things is a detriment to the Cowboys success.

Even if they are making decisions as a "group", it isn't working. Hasn't for quite some time. In fact, the only team this team has made forward advances under Jerry's ownership was when they had a strong football person providing the direction of the franchise.

I thought Safety was in the secondary. I had no idea they were opposed to each other. Learn something new every day.

Whoops, CB. I was listing positions and got ahead of myself. Sometimes words are confusing. Like "decisions" and "analysis"

 

[junk]

And you know this for a fact?
Because anyone who follows the team knows that Jerry is regularly (Except for the Parcells years) in team meetings, film sessions, etc. He talks about that often on his weekly radio show.

But once again, I guess you know more about how the team is run than its owner.

Nope, but he will pretend he does.