Jerry Jones hit the nail on the head

[JustChip]

So save the cheating for another day…..be sure….there will be more.

It isn’t cheating if there’s no rule against. It was designed to confuse the defense. No different than a litany of other plays (e. g., a flea-flicker). Maybe it can be called unscrupulous or poor sportsmanship, but illegal it’s not.

Belichik’s spying and Brady’s deflated balls were against the rules and forbidden. That’s the difference with this.

 

[Starstruck22]

Attempted deception is NOT the same as attempted cheating.

There are none so blind than those that refuse to see.

 

[pentatwirl]

in that video it seems as if they heard the call and tried to "Low key" re report, thats my question did they not know that if they did change it the refs would re announce everything to everyone.. just seems like they ran the play hoping the refs would say "My bad we announced the wrong guy here is your 2 points" when there is no way they can do that.

If you're thinking of the video clip discussed by SVP, Aikman, and Buck with Goff telling 68 to go talk to the ref, I think was prior to the 3-way reporting fiasco, not after the announcement. This video tries to break down the sequence with both clips from a Detroit perspective, and they have the huddle shot first.

 

[Starstruck22]

It isn’t cheating if there’s no rule against. It was designed to confuse the defense. No different than a litany of other plays (e. g., a flea-flicker). Maybe it can be called unscrupulous or poor sportsmanship, but illegal it’s not.

Belichik’s spying and Brady’s deflated balls were against the rules and forbidden. That’s the difference with this.

So it is only cheating if there is a rule that says you cant cheat? Are you insane? The rules themselves imply by intent that any attempt to subvert the rules is cheating and should be sanctioned.

 

[TrailBlazer]

Dallas had the right to know who the eligible receivers were on the 2 point conversion. Plain and simple.

Plays conceived to break the rules are not fair, devious, unscrupulous and the NFL should consider sanctions and fines going forward for such.

As the world turns, everyone is aware we are becoming as a world more unscrupulous where the ends justify the means and the NFL is no exception. Rules need to be modified to prevent unscrupulous coaches from winning by fraud.

This is a little over the top. But yes detroit had to try some BS trick play to steal a win at the very end and it backfired tremendously and I dont feel sorry for then that it didn't work.

 

[Starstruck22]

It isn’t cheating if there’s no rule against. It was designed to confuse the defense. No different than a litany of other plays (e. g., a flea-flicker). Maybe it can be called unscrupulous or poor sportsmanship, but illegal it’s not.

Belichik’s spying and Brady’s deflated balls were against the rules and forbidden. That’s the difference with this.

And the rule that the defense is entitled to know the eligible receiver is rule. Campbell attempted to circumvent that rule. He tried to subvert the rule. It is every much as cheating as stealing signals, deflating balls, and such.

and riddle me this Batman, if he was not trying to subvert the rule, why did tell all the lineman to do what they did, why did he tell 70 to report and not decker?
Why did you not just tell decker to report and have decker try to catch the ball. All orchestrated to subvert the rule. None of this was confusion. All orchestrated by a cheater.

 

[CowboyFrog]

If you're thinking of the video clip discussed by SVP, Aikman, and Buck with Goff telling 68 to go talk to the ref, I think was prior to the 3-way reporting fiasco, not after the announcement. This video tries to break down the sequence with both clips from a Detroit perspective, and they have the huddle shot first.

gotcha! that makes more sense. I still find it hard to believe no one on the lions heard the call of 70 though but maybe only the Cowboys heard it...who knows.

 

[pansophy]

I don’t have a problem with what the Lions did. If the defenders looked at who was reporting and get confused instead of listening to the ref tell them who is eligible then that’s on us.

Fact is the ref got confused — I think because they botched the numbers — and told dallas 70 was eligible. That’s the only thing that matters in any of this. The defense was told by the refs that wasn’t correct. Maybe there is a case for Lions to not be penalized for the refs mistake, but the play shouldn’t stand.

Lions got 2 more chances and couldn’t get it down so I can’t feel too badly for them. Goff throws a better pass on the 3 attempt they probably get it 2 there.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds058]

I was born at night but it wasn’t last night, Campbell tried to pull an Okie Dokie but it backfired on him. Now he is doubling down on the craziness and trying to rationalize and justify what he did.

 

[Starstruck22]

This is a little over the top. But yes detroit had to try some BS trick play to steal a win at the very end and it backfired tremendously and I dont feel sorry for then that it didn't work.

We really need to call a spade a spade and cheating is more than over the top.

 

[Starstruck22]

I was born at night but it wasn’t last night, Campbell tried to pull an Okie Dokie but it backfired on him. Now he is doubling down on the craziness and trying to rationalize and justify what he did.

Campbell I am afraid has fired a shot over the bow. And that is he will do anything to win. Which is, I am afraid a sign of the times and the cultural breakdown of corruption and scam.

 

[Starstruck22]

I don’t have a problem with what the Lions did. If the defenders looked at who was reporting and get confused instead of listening to the ref tell them who is eligible then that’s on us.

Fact is the ref got confused — I think because they botched the numbers — and told dallas 70 was eligible. That’s the only thing that matters in any of this. The defense was told by the refs that wasn’t correct. Maybe there is a case for Lions to not be penalized for the refs mistake, but the play shouldn’t stand.

Lions got 2 more chances and couldn’t get it down so I can’t feel too badly for them. Goff throws a better pass on the 3 attempt they probably get it 2 there.

The ref was not confuseD. 70 reported and brad allen acknowledged. And can Campbell planned it. He already admitted it.

 

[JustChip]

So it is only cheating if there is a rule that says you cant cheat? Are you insane? The rules themselves imply by intent that any attempt to subvert the rules is cheating and should be sanctioned.

That is correct. It’s what society is built upon - laws that defined what is legal and what is not. If there isn’t a law prohibiting it, it’s legal.

There are social norms and “rules” of etiquette that are legal, but not necessarily an accepted standard by the law.

In the sports world, it’s the “spirit” of the game. But that’s a nebulous term - who decides what’s in the spirit and what isn’t? You? Me?

What DC did was not illegal and if it’s not illegal, it isn’t cheating. Again, poor sportsmanship, maybe, but that’s it.

You and I obviously aren’t going to see eye-to-eye on this, so we’ll simply have to agree to disagree.

 

[OmerV]

You are confusing deception and cheating. I am sorry you cannot get it. The play was designed to obfuscate and prevent dallas from knowing who was eligible. I dont care if it was 3 lineman, 5 clowns, or 10 water boys. It was designed to subvert the rule. What motion play or fake punt, or misdirection is designed to subvert any rule???? There are none so blind than those that refuse to see.

if you are saying that Detroit was not trying to prevent dallas from knowing who was eligible, you are insane. That was the intent. That is rule subversion.

Actually you are confusing deception with cheating. I was drawing the distinction.

The play was designed to make it harder for a Dallas player watching multiple linemen approach the ref to easily see which player was reporting as eligible. So yes, they were trying to deceive Dallas, and I have never said otherwise. But as long as the Lions accurately told the ref who they meant to be eligible they didn't do anything illegal. Again, deception, but not illegal.

Of course the ref had to report it to the Cowboys, but the hope was the visual of multiple players approaching the refs would confuse the Cowboys. It's just not likely the Lions would intentionally undermine the success of their own play based on an assumption the ref wouldn't notice that #68 looks different than #70

Apparently #70 had reported as eligible several times during the game, and he was running toward the ref (though not quite there) when the ref was being told who was eligible, so the most likely thing is the ref was confused on who the Lions were reporting as eligible and assumed it was #70 again. That's much more plausible than the belief the Lions thought the ref wouldn't notice the difference between #70 and #68 when the pass was caught.

 

[FanofJerry]

I have a problem with that. It is a clear attempt to subvert rules. It should be illegal.

Confusing Dallas, assuming its something not too unsportsman-like is not subverting the rules.

Attacking the refs and trying to confuse them to get a clear advantage is definitely unsportsman-like and reeks.

The major problem with attacking the refs in this situation, assuming that was part of Dan's plan, is that this trickery in this situation is a guaranteed TD and in last weeks case would have been a guaranteed TD and a WIN.

The problem with competition, any competition, is that getting an advantage starts leading into things that arent about the sport...but about using your head to trick others. I dont think there is a way to keep a competition strictly about the sport at hand....there is always going to be someone using unsportsman like slight of hand or trickery to win...even if what won them the competition has nothing to do with the sport. Example...rumors about teams sending people in to the opponents hotel looking for playbook material that might have been accidently left behind. Going to that extent to win has nothing to do with two sets of players competing against each other....that has everything to do with off the football field antics to get a win or advantage.

How do you contain it?

At the end of the day it starts getting corny how far some will take winning. Its funny how there seems to be a large portion of people that think Draymond's antics are ok on a basketball court. Everyone is trying to play basketball while he thinks he's in a last man standing MMA match...but he's considered a winner because he went the extra mile into violence? I guess the same posters want to see someone who thinks he is in a strictly boxing match get his ear bit off too. People take it too far.

 

[pansophy]

The ref was not confuseD. 70 reported and brad allen acknowledged. And can Campbell planned it. He already admitted it.

I haven’t seen any report that says that. 68 said he reported and 70 explained he didn’t say anything. Everything else was intended to create confusion. Why the ref got confused is beyond me, but clearly he botched the number he was told.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Just pointing out that of course, and as predicted, you don't hear a peep about the phantom tripping call that was a 37 yard swing on a double screw job. It should have been a tacked on 15 and game over, but instead it was called on the wrong team wiping out a 7 yard gain and backing them up 15 yards. One of the worst calls in the history of the game.

And that bad tripping call happened as the Cowboys were going to put the game away - which is the most common time refs screw the Cowboys. We seemingly always get a blown call or no call on our attempt to either put the game away or score late on our last drive.

But the talking points were sent out to the Rich Eisen's and others - Cowboys fans have been providing far too much evidence of getting historically screwed (as they did again in this Lions game with the tripping call), so they have to blow up the Lions trickery backfiring on them while completely ignoring the tripping call.

Imagine if the tripping call got backed up by the Cowboy being lied to about 68 being eligible and the play stands and we lose to that sequence of events.

 

[Cowboys5217]

I agree. It’s only cheating if the rules say only the player reporting as eligible can approach or be within x feet of the official. We need a rules expert like @MarcusRock to chime in.

He's not a rules expert. He never calls out bad calls against Dallas, he tries to justify them.

 

[Cowboys5217]

Attempted deception is NOT the same as attempted cheating.

If you fail at your attempt to cheat it is still cheating.

 

[Cowboys5217]

I haven’t seen any report that says that. 68 said he reported and 70 explained he didn’t say anything. Everything else was intended to create confusion. Why the ref got confused is beyond me, but clearly he botched the number he was told.

There's is no proof that the ref got confused. There is plenty of proof that this keystone cops level attempt to subvert the reporting rules backfired tremendously.

And of course it should have never even happened anyway because Dallas got screwed by one of the worst calls ever on the tripping. Seriously, did that ref penalize us because she thought we tried to trip our own player?