Jimmy Johnson on Mike and Mike

[superpunk]

rcaldw, who is this young, fiery, next Noll/Shula/Jimmy coach you want?

Let's have some names.

This is fallacy. Kind of a red herring, maybe. "Give us names of who would make a better head coach." As though without a ready replacement his complaints are unfounded.

It is not necessary to have a necessary replacement in mind to acknowledge that something is wrong with the incumbent. Not having a replacement in mind does not invalidate the argument.

Effectively what the red herring does is suggest that if no replacement is clearly in mind, well then Wade is the man. But is that really what defense of Wade boils down to? "Well, there aren't any better options that you can think of, are there?"

Hollow support, IMO.

 

[CATCH17]

This is fallacy. Kind of a red herring, maybe. "Give us names of who would make a better head coach." As though without a ready replacement his complaints are unfounded.

It is not necessary to have a necessary replacement in mind to acknowledge that something is wrong with the incumbent. Not having a replacement in mind does not invalidate the argument.

Effectively what the red herring does is suggest that if no replacement is clearly in mind, well then Wade is the man. But is that really what defense of Wade boils down to? "Well, there aren't any better options that you can think of, are there?"

Hollow support, IMO.

Is something really wrong or is Dallas under such a microscope that any time someone faces adversity here they are over srutinized?

I mean if you win 17 of your 22 games and people want you out the door than somethings wrong.

Your goal is to win regardless of how you get there.

 

[jterrell]

Jimmy only nurtured his team when he knew they didn't have what it takes. Once he saw potential, he tore into them nonstop.

It takes all kinds, obviously - but I think it's becoming obvious that for this Cowboys team, it's going to take Jimmy's kind.

Jimmy bullied bad players and let good players act out.

When we were a great team he was still allowing the stars special treatment and humiliating guys who were just glad to be NFL players.

 

[mmillman]

The true measure of a coach is if he can get the most out of his team. Dallas has the most talent in the league and isn't playing like pro's. Sloppy special teams, bad penalties, turnovers at bad times and field position. Those are signs of a lack of focus and discipline on the team. I give him a short leash only because of the injuries.

 

[jterrell]

Is something really wrong or is Dallas under such a microscope that any time someone faces adversity here they are over srutinized?

I mean if you win 17 of your 22 games and people want you out the door than somethings wrong.

Your goal is to win regardless of how you get there.

Its the nature of the media and the sheep.

The media makes jokes and blames Wade for everything from gas prices to the stock market and it is his fault he has lost 5 games. The games he won of course are meaningless because he has a good team.

We were just awesome in the playoffs before Wade right???
I mean we just started losing playoff games and having bad final months when he showed up....

It has to be Wade's fault....

No one can judge Wade until the Cowboys final loss this year or when he hoists the Lombardi.

Anything else is just useless chatter. If anything we should be glad this team is facing scrutiny and adversity so they are actually ready come playoff time.

Wasn't Coughlin just about fired last year by this point of the season???

Perhaps the fans and media are often wound a little too tight.

 

[superpunk]

Is something really wrong or is Dallas under such a microscope that any time someone faces adversity here they are over srutinized?

I mean if you win 17 of your 22 games and people want you out the door than somethings wrong.

Your goal is to win regardless of how you get there.

I've watched the team keep coming out flat for 4 years now - I think they need a different attitude at the top. One that's hungrier and shows it.

Opinions will vary.

 

[PullMyFinger]

I wouldnt think Red is any different.

 

[jterrell]

The true measure of a coach is if he can get the most out of his team. Dallas has the most talent in the league and isn't playing like pro's. Sloppy special teams, bad penalties, turnovers at bad times and field position. Those are signs of a lack of focus and discipline on the team. I give him a short leash only because of the injuries.

We've played 6 games and we are 4-2.

About week 12 we will hopefully be playing better.

BTW, Jimmy manufactured exactly these types of losses....
No coach wants their team peaking week 6.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

This is fallacy. Kind of a red herring, maybe. "Give us names of who would make a better head coach." As though without a ready replacement his complaints are unfounded.

It is not necessary to have a necessary replacement in mind to acknowledge that something is wrong with the incumbent. Not having a replacement in mind does not invalidate the argument.

Effectively what the red herring does is suggest that if no replacement is clearly in mind, well then Wade is the man. But is that really what defense of Wade boils down to? "Well, there aren't any better options that you can think of, are there?"

Hollow support, IMO.

How there be a fallacy when I didn't even draw a conclusion?

I just wanted to know who he had in mind, to get from the theoretical to the practical. It in no way implies that Wade is flawless.

 

[CATCH17]

I've watched the team keep coming out flat for 4 years now - I think they need a different attitude at the top. One that's hungrier and shows it.

Opinions will vary.

I disagree with that.

When Tony Romo took over this teams attitude changed in a big way.

We ride with Tony and Wade.

Wade needs to clean it up some too. But the players love him and they will fight for someone they love.

Hes brought the family atmosphere and I think thats a good thing after a post Parcells built team.

But When Tony is sulky, or making faces like he just smoked a pound of grass than this team sees that.

He is our adrenaline. Hes what makes this sucker go.

The game is all about the Quarterback. Tony is a GREAT QB. He just needs needs to be a more consistent leader.

 

[superpunk]

How there be a fallacy when I didn't even draw a conclusion?

I just wanted to know who he had in mind, to get from the theoretical to the practical. It in no way implies that Wade is flawless.

I assumed the implication - not that you were saying that Wade is flawless, but that if others don't have a list of available candidates to replace him, well then just quit *****ing about it. If that was wrong, my bad - but that is the general train of thought when a question like that is raised to someone complaining.

 

[jobberone]

Winning cures everything and turns you into a Pro Bowl player and puts coaches in the HOF.

It takes everything including luck and lack of injuries to win in this league. You prepare the players and then they have to perform.

But the whole team is responsible for a loss or a win. You don't need to point fingers but fix the problems.

 

[MONT17]

Too bad Jimmy didn't say this after the Bengals win... Everyone wouldve called him Chicken little or Debbie Downer and (oldie but goodie) Cowboy Hater!

 

[rcaldw]

rcaldw, who is this young, fiery, next Noll/Shula/Jimmy coach you want?

Let's have some names.

Hey Lab, sorry I was away from my computer for awhile, and I haven't read all the responses after this, so this may be a little outside where the conversation went.

But I actually like Jason Garrett as HC better than Wade. I'm not even saying he would do any better. I just think it is time we move beyond TIRED, OLD, AND AT LEAST THE PERCEPTION OF...HELPLESS AND CLUELESS.

Silly, almost a guy you would make fun of kind of personna.

At least Garrett wouldn't represent those things in my mind.

Man, I'm just ready to feel like we are making decisions for some kind of FUTURE instead of always the feeling that we are PATCHING for the immediate.

 

[rcaldw]

It terms of the "we are family" approach to coaching, other than Bum Phillips, Wade's dad, and perhaps Dick Vermeil, can you name a guy that had a long run of success with that approach?

For every guy you can name I bet I will have 3 or more Vince Lombardi types.

Its just human nature that if you let people function according to their comfort level they usually don't push themselves to the levels that they are capable of.

 

[Chief]

Among the guys Jerry interviewed last time, Mike Singletary is the guy I wanted him to hire as head coach.

While he's never even been a coordinator, I think some guys are just better equipped to be a head coach. Singletary is and always has been a tone-setter, even as a player. I like his mental and emotional makeup as it translates to a head coach. He is very intelligent, knows people, is charismatic and can lead with a soft touch or with a sledgehammer, depending on the situation. He could leave the X's and O's to his coordinators.

Garrett was my second choice out of that group and he'll be the one that takes over for Wade.

 

[Boysboy]

Among the guys Jerry interviewed last time, Mike Singletary is the guy I wanted him to hire as head coach.

While he's never even been a coordinator, I think some guys are just better equipped to be a head coach. Singletary is and always has been a tone-setter, even as a player. I like his mental and emotional makeup as it translates to a head coach. He is very intelligent, knows people, is charismatic and can lead with a soft touch or with a sledgehammer, depending on the situation. He could leave the X's and O's to his coordinators.

Garrett was my second choice out of that group and he'll be the one that takes over for Wade.

Singletary also interviewed for HC jobs this year, but was turned down.

Maybe he's just not all that?

 

[Dave_in-NC]

NY Giants - Parcells WON a playoff game in yr 3, and then won the SUPER BOWL in year 4...only to win another in his last year.

Pats - Parcells took them to the Super Bowl in yr 4.

NY Jets - Parcells took them to the AFC Title game in yr 2.

Here in Dallas-he goes 0-2 in the playoffs, while crashing and burning every Dec. So your point being?

And Phillips is just happy to have a job. Your point being?

 

[rcaldw]

Singletary also interviewed for HC jobs this year, but was turned down.

Maybe he's just not all that?

From what I've gathered, he has a certain way that he wants it to be done and he isn't going to lower his standards. The result has been that they have said no thank you.

Chief I agree with you , I think Singletary will make a great HC somewhere.

 

[Boysboy]

And Phillips is just happy to have a job. Your point being?

You mean you wish Parcells were still here? You mean if Parcells were still here, we would have discipline on this team? Really?