Jimmy Johnson on NFL Network right now, Head coach commanders

[Randy White]

I look at it more from a Cowboys perspective and that is: How's the last 13 years been for ya? For me as a fan they've SUCKED and been the worst era in Cowboys history and without a single playoff win! Top that!

And that's attributed to the absence of Jimmah Jenius ? Because of so, exactly what did he win with the Dullphins ?

 

[jazzcat22]

and Jimmy picked 98% of the talent in the 90's DUHHH

When you trade 1 player and get 5 in return, that were eventully released and all those turned into what, 14 draft picks, which were even turned into more. How can you go wrong.

Not to take anything away from Jimmy, because he could pick talent, as well as take perceived trouble players and make them productive [Haley, Casillas].
But you also have to be lucky from some regard.

He tried to trade twice to pick a LB...couldn't pull it off. So Emmitt slipped to them, as he did do great to trade back up for him. however, that was a lot of luck in that. Lamar Lathon and the LB the Bengals took, name escapes me right now.

And Pat Summeral even said on a Thankgiving day game in 1990, against the Commanders, as Dallas was starting to show some offensive power [under Dave Shula of all people] prior to Norv Turner coming in as OC...he said IF they get LUCKY in the draft with all the picks they have left, and if the picks they made pan out...."and that is exactly what it is is LUCK"...they will be very good for year....those were his basic words.

Again, Jimmy was great, wish he could have stayed, wish we had him now, but as any coach, player, QB gets too much credit for winning and all the blame for losing.

 

[Randy White]

You said that they would've had the success they had without Jimmy, but then you said they won the '92 NFC title game inspite of him, well they wouldn't have got there without him right!

Do you have a reading problem ? Where did I say that the Cowboys won " in spite of him " ?

Also on the Harper slant did you catch on what Jimmy told Norv on one of the 100 showings of that game. Norv asked Jimmy what he wanted him to call, Jimmy said get a 1st down. I think he got alittle more than he bargained for don't you?

So he's a " Jenius " because he asked for a 1st down and got more than that..

ummm, alllriighhtyy then..

Oh and Jimmy drafted Harper, the guy who made the two biggest catches in that game

Yea, and who he wouldn't have drafted had he got his the original guy he wanted: Rocket Ismail.

See, you what your hero worshiping prevents you from seeing is the entire picture, which is my point from the begining.

Jimmah " Jenius " was as important as anybody in the success of the Dallas Cowboys in the '90s, but to say " he " was " the " guy, well, only ignorant fools would think that.

 

[Randy White]

Like others have said the truth is in the middle. Jimmy was a good coach no doubt. But even good coaches need everything to come together in order to win championships. They need the whole organization. They even need a little luck. No one fails or succeeds on their own. Jimmy is not a coaching god. He is a great coach who when he had his windows of opportunity took advantage of them. Many don't and that is the difference between winning and losing in a lot of cases.

Stop making sense.. The Jimmah " Jenius " lovers in here won't like it.

 

[cowboyjoe]

ok first i wil recap
pat jones said that when he was coaching at pittsburgh college he got beat by notre dame by a guy named joe montana,. that the coaches had to drag jimmy johnson out of the place and physically put him in a car, that jimmy was crying,

jimmy hated to lose

i players on this team hated to lose as half the much that jimmy johnson hated to lose, this team would be winning championship with the talent that was on this team since 2007

losing locker room, jimmy wanted the players to hurt , when lost a game because the more they hurt he said, the more they will be driven to win, now what you have to do is find out the ones that hate to lose, others that are content in just getting a check, get rid of them

talked about it takes to of these to be a winner, big brass balls, george sibert sent that and said after jimmy said if your going to talk, youve got to walk the walk;

jimmy said, i have to treat you in such a way that your already accomplish what i want you to accomplish; your going to win, coach are salesman,

nate said its one thing to stop a guy like jimmy when you still couldnt stop him

jimmy said it cant be reheteric, its got to be work, hard physical work

simms said he tolerates no mistakes, or penalities, challenges your manhood

i have said that several times thats what some of these players on cowboys need now, to be challenged and they arent being challenged

one of his rules, im gong to be consistent, im going to treat everyone of you differently, some of you are on bottom and you know who you are so no room for error, some of you are in between

or above

roy firestone said he doesnt come to play, he comes to win

so that to me is a head coach, one that doesnt come to play, wont accept sloppy mistakes or penalities, and makes players work hard and he comes to win, not just be there or accept 2nd best, or like wade phillips said one time, well we did win, we won a playoff game was the bye week

thats a copout and a wrong message to send to your team,

 

[Chocolate Lab]

pat jones said that when he was coaching at pittsburgh college he got beat by notre dame by a guy named joe montana,. that the coaches had to drag jimmy johnson out of the place and physically put him in a car, that jimmy was crying,

Wow. I wonder what he did after 62-7?

 

[cowboyjoe]

now jimmy johnson built the cowboys in the 90s, took him 3 years to get to a playoff, and he won a playoff game in his 3rd year, jimmy johnson didnt have a team built like wade had in 2007, remember now wade had 13 pro bowlers on this team in 2007, 13 pro bowlers

he had total control of trades, cuts, etc

jerry jones did the best thing he ever did by hiring jimmy johnson

when jimmy johnson went to miami he didnt have full control, don shula still had his hands in the till, because jimmy johnson wanted to trade dan marino and make a big trade like he did with hershel walker, don shula wouldnt let him

the rest is history

so jimmy johnson helped the cowboys win 2 superbowls, and he basically had the team built for the one they won in 95, basically one player was added, deion sanders by jerry jones, thats what jerry jones has forgotten

the team leaders were here in 94 and 95 to control things in locker room
so you could deal with an issue that deioin brought, you have the team built first, with talent and leaders, with chemistry already developed, then you go out and get someone like charles haley or deion sanders,but t he team has to be built first,

jimmy johnson did that

 

[Randy White]

when jimmy johnson went to miami he didnt have full control, don shula still had his hands in the till, because jimmy johnson wanted to trade dan marino and make a big trade like he did with hershel walker, don shula wouldnt let him

Dude: what are you smoking ? Seriously, put it away before it REALLY harms you.

The minute Don Shula resigned, he was gone. He had absolutely NO say in anything related to the Dullphins, even though he had ownership stake on the team. He didn't even attended the annual share holders' meeting. To this day, he still hasn't attended a Dullphins practice.

The second Wayne Huizenga hired the " Jenius ", he gave him the keys to the complex, a company credit card, and the freedom to do ANYTHING he wanted. As a matter of fact, Huizenga even offered him a part time coaching job ( coach only on home games ) when the " Jenius ", as his history suggested, quit after his 4th or 5th year.

You want to know why Jimmah Jenius didn't trade Marino ? Because he wasn't getting what he wanted, which was another Hershel Walker bounty. The Vikings offered him a #1 pick and the " Jenius " turned them down..

Shula wasn't even town for much of that time.

 

[Randy White]

Wow. I wonder what he did after 62-7?

He quit.

and blamed it being " burned out ".

 

[YosemiteSam]

sigh...


Troy was to be #1 no matter who was coach, and Jimmy still wanted Walsh instead.

Jimmy didn't want Emmitt...

Yes, Jimmy played a large role in building the team, but I think he gets too much credit...alot of the groundwork was laid - nearly half of the starters on the first Super Bowl team were already there, and if Jimmy had his way two of the major pieces would not have been (Troy and Emmitt), so again, I am thankful for Jimmy, but he was not quite the architect he was made out to be...

Stop talking out of your ***. Jimmy tried to get Troy Aikman to come to Miami while he was still at OU. Troy didn't like Jimmy and didn't want to go against his current coach (Barry Switzer) when he was heading to another team after the injury. Barry was close friends with Terry Donahue at UCLA. In turn, Troy went to UCLA. Jimmy knew first hand how good Emmitt was because he played against him in college. Stop inventing bull****.

 

[Next_years_Champs]

I haven't read everything in this post so if I'm repeating something that has been stated already I'm sorry.

I've read several posts which imply that Jimmie Johnson was somehow lucky when it pertained to drafting Troy Aikman and Emmitt Smith. Nothing could be farther from the truth Jimmie was completely aware of the talent of those players.

Jimmie actually recruited both players out of high school to play for him in college. He recruited Aikman and Emmitt when he was at Miami. Troy went to UCLA and as anyone who has read Emmitts book will know Emmitt didn't go to Miami because Jimmie would not commit 20 or 25 carries a game to him and Florida did.

So all that talk about Jimmie not wanting Troy and Emmitt, or him not knowing how good those players were is just BS. Troy and Emmitt were brough to Dallas because of Jimmie not inspite of him. The point about him wanting Francis is true but thankfully that was foiled but after that Emmitt was clearly in Jimmie's eye since he traded up to get him.

Jimmie was a very good coach and having just come up from the college ranks means he had first hand knowledge of a lot of players, he used that knowledge in his early drafts. But the notion that he didn't know how talented Troy and Emmitt were, or that he didn't want them here is totally wrong.

 

[Mash]

That's the problem.

Jimmah Jenius was ONE of the main reasons why the Cowboys won the Superbowl. You want to say one of the three or four? Ok. Could it have happened without him ? Doubtful, but NOT because of what you think, ie: talent evaluation, but because of his coaching style.

And even that was just ONE component of the whole picture, which is something you people seem to miss.

There is no " he built ", or " he won ", anything. Take a look at the 1992 NFC Championship game that the NFL Network has replayed 100 times. Jimmah Jenius almost blew it by going on 4th and 1 instead of kicking the FG that would have put the Cowboys up by 14 points. If it wasn't for Alvin Harper's acrobatic catch over Eric Davis' head ( on an earlier drive ), who knows what the Cowboys would have done on a key drive of the game when they lost all momentum.

Had Jimmy Jenius drafted James Francis instead of Emmitt Smith, who knows where the Cowboys would have been. Had Jerrah Jones not put his foot down and told the " Jenius " in no uncertain term that: " Troy Aikman WILL NOT be traded no matter what ", who knows where the Cowboys would have ended up..

Alot of things that most people don't see, don't know, but happened that helped in that run. It wasn't a " he " anything..

and dont forget......Jerry Jones brought in Haley.....which I thought was a huge piece that was missing in that defense.

 

[xpistofer]

Stop talking out of your ***. Jimmy tried to get Troy Aikman to come to Miami while he was still at OU. Troy didn't like Jimmy and didn't want to go against his current coach (Barry Switzer) when he was heading to another team after the injury. Barry was close friends with Terry Donahue at UCLA. In turn, Troy went to UCLA. Jimmy knew first hand how good Emmitt was because he played against him in college. Stop inventing bull****.

since you are the type to get personal and insulting...

perhaps you are too young to remember that the Dallas front office was planning to draft Aikman (Landry's words) before Jimmy arrived, so he would have been in Dallas with or without Jimmy.

additionally, perhaps you are too young to remember that Jimmy used a #1 pick (supplemental draft) to draft Steve Walsh and then (at least Aikman felt) Jimmy wanted to trade him.

additionally, perhaps you are too young to remember that Jimmy had to be talked into trading up to get Emmitt.

again, I am not trying to knock Jimmy, I am just stating historical fact - but apparently you are so young that you think it all to be bullpoopy...

oh to be young again...

 

[ReturnToGlory]

I can't believe what I am reading on a Cowboys forum. Are you guys employed by Jerry?

First of all, Jimmy should have taken the Tampa job. He may have created another dynasty. And in Miami, he was hamstrung with a fading Marino. It was a no win situation.

Even if Jimmy lucked into drafting

Troy
Johnston
Stepnoski
Tolbert
Emmitt
Jimmie Jones
Gant
Maryland
Harper
Edwards
Myles
Erik Williams
Leon Lett
Larry Brown
Kevin Smith
Robert Jones
Woodson
Kevin Williams
Darrin Smith
Ron Stone
Brock Marion

these players in 5 years, he did a pretty good job developing these guys.
Do you think Jimmy's players would turn out to be who they were playing for Wade?

Let's see who he drafted in Miami
Zach Thomas
Sam Madison
Jason Taylor
Patrick Surtain

that lucky son of a gun..His problem in Miami was trying to draft an Emmitt Smith.

 

[Royal Laegotti]

I can't believe what I am reading on a Cowboys forum. Are you guys employed by Jerry?

First of all, Jimmy should have taken the Tampa job. He may have created another dynasty. And in Miami, he was hamstrung with a fading Marino. It was a no win situation.

Even if Jimmy lucked into drafting

Troy
Johnston
Stepnoski
Tolbert
Emmitt
Jimmie Jones
Gant
Maryland
Harper
Edwards
Myles
Erik Williams
Leon Lett
Larry Brown
Kevin Smith
Robert Jones
Woodson
Kevin Williams
Darrin Smith
Ron Stone
Brock Marion

these players in 5 years, he did a pretty good job developing these guys.
Do you think Jimmy's players would turn out to be who they were playing for Wade?

Let's see who he drafted in Miami
Zach Thomas
Sam Madison
Jason Taylor
Patrick Surtain

that lucky son of a gun..His problem in Miami was trying to draft an Emmitt Smith.

In bold. That's what I was thinking! They're part of the Jethro spin machine.

He drafted alot of really good players then, probowlers.

I guess if Jerry was there twisting Jimmy's arm into drafting all those guys, as some on here would have us believe, then what happend to great drafts like that when Jimmy left, or was forced out? They never want to even attempt to answer that? They always bring up this drivel about Jimmy's "lack of success" coaching the Dolphins, to which you appropriately addressed.

But it still won't sink in to their mind, they don't want it!

 

[Royal Laegotti]

if you had read the threads I had posted you would have read the words "I am very thankful for Jimmy" and "he played a large part in building" the teams..

Good for you! Then that got wiped out by everything else you said!

you extremists are unreal - if anyone says Jimmy isn't God you assume they must think he's the devil.

There is only ONE GOD and Jimmy ain't him! But Jimmy was more than lucky he had a plan and a vision on how to draft and develope talent that this franchise desperately misses. How many coaches would trade off their best player (Walker) in spite of the media firestorm he got and come out smelling like a rose? Not many!

by the way, I listed by name and position the starters who were already on the roster when Jimmy took over as coach, and I listed his involvement in Troy, Michael, and Emmitt being on the team. Basically Jimmy had little to no involvement in adding half of the starting roster - historical fact.

You talkin' about those guys who made up a 3-13 team in '88 then a 1-15 team in '89? Well he was smart enough to cut who he didn't need and was smart enough to tell who he could use and develope and then went and did it. But I guess he was just lucky huh!

Jimmy's true greatness was evident by his ability to build depth. Talent +depth won us three super bowls. Jimmy had a hand in the talent, but basically supervised the depth.

Supervised??? He had his hand all in that roster and was a master at churning it!

So again, I am thankful for Jimmy, he played a large part in building the team, but he had a (believe it or not) fairly stacked roster to begin with

Again you talking about a team that was 3-13! Fairly stacked? I'd say there was a few diamonds in the poo but not at all stacked.

and the high picks when he took over and the picks from the Herschel trade made all the difference. Give him credit, I agree, but he was not irreplaceable.

Jimmy was NOT irreplaceable? That's just insane to think that! I've been waiting for the next Jimmy Johnson to come coach this team for 15 years now, do you think anybody we've had since then has done anywhere near a good job as what Jimmy did bringing this franchise out of a dump? Wait don't answer that, but how's Wade workin' for ya?

and fyi, my responses are in regard to Jimmy as a talent evaluator and team builder - not a coach...he was unquestionably the 2nd best coach we have ever had, and one of the best coaches in modern times (IMO), but as a teambuilder he gets too much credit....

Well if you think Jerry deserves as much credit as Jimmy then compare this franchise from '91-'93 to anything after that and you see how good Jerry's done on his own. I certainly can't credit Jerry for much of the brainwork that Jimmy did of createing that roster of superbowlers. The only things I will credit Jerry for is hiring him, doing what Jimmy said and writing the checks.

 

[xpistofer]

Good for you! Then that got wiped out by everything else you said!

So...by stating facts regarding the makeup of the roster I am really not appreciative of Jimmy?? uhhhh....OK...I guess...

There is only ONE GOD and Jimmy ain't him! But Jimmy was more than lucky he had a plan and a vision on how to draft and develope talent that this franchise desperately misses. How many coaches would trade off their best player (Walker) in spite of the media firestorm he got and come out smelling like a rose? Not many!

I never said he was lucky...never used the word luck, in fact...like Jimmy said - you make your own luck.

You talkin' about those guys who made up a 3-13 team in '88 then a 1-15 team in '89? Well he was smart enough to cut who he didn't need and was smart enough to tell who he could use and develope and then went and did it. But I guess he was just lucky huh!

Again, never used the word... I just named the 50% of the starting roster from the first super bowl who was already on the team when Jimmy took over.

Supervised??? He had his hand all in that roster and was a master at churning it!

I kinda thought that's what supervised meant. So...

Again you talking about a team that was 3-13! Fairly stacked? I'd say there was a few diamonds in the poo but not at all stacked.

I call 50% of a starting Super Bowl team that young stacked. 50% is hardly a few diamonds among poo (never thought I would use that phrase when I woke up this morning...)

Jimmy was NOT irreplaceable? That's just insane to think that! I've been waiting for the next Jimmy Johnson to come coach this team for 15 years now, do you think anybody we've had since then has done anywhere near a good job as what Jimmy did bringing this franchise out of a dump? Wait don't answer that, but how's Wade workin' for ya?

There have been 10 (or so) Super Bowl winning coaches since Jimmy (besides Barry)...we could have had any of them. Jimmy was replaceable, we just didn't replace him with the right guys.

Well if you think Jerry deserves as much credit as Jimmy then compare this franchise from '91-'93 to anything after that and you see how good Jerry's done on his own. I certainly can't credit Jerry for much of the brainwork that Jimmy did of createing that roster of superbowlers. The only things I will credit Jerry for is hiring him, doing what Jimmy said and writing the checks.

I never mentioned Jerry. I didn't think this thread was about Jerry...

finally, I apologize to all Jimmy Johnson fans whom I have apparently insulted. I thought we were all Cowboys fans who could enjoy an interesting historical discussion about our team.

What was I thinking...:

 

[Royal Laegotti]

finally, I apologize to all Jimmy Johnson fans whom I have apparently insulted. I thought we were all Cowboys fans who could enjoy an interesting historical discussion about our team.

What was I thinking...:

I'm too tired to argue about this anymore, i'm just glad Jimmy was our coach for a time and i'm glad that our team won 3 titles in 4 years. How many countless fans have never seen their favorite team win a title, and we've been lucky enough to see ours win it multiple times. So I accept your apology this time, but don't you ever let it happen again!:

 

[ctalker]

It starts at he top and it's all about results and Jimmy got em... He had some luck, he made some good trades (H. Walker), he made some good picks.

Some people can and some can't or can only get close. You can nit pick every decision in hignsight but fact is he got results.

 

[ReturnToGlory]

Jimmy got us three super bowls and gave us some great memories that will be hard to duplicate. enough said!